OK MYSTERY OIL TIME

[sailormanbigd]

i removed starter and loosenned the v-belt so there is no external drag on the engine and it still wont budge with the hand crank. So, how do i add the mystery oil-just bought 3 quarts. should i wedge something under the rocker arms to open the valves alittle? do i drain the crankcase oil first or after? Patrick

 

[sailormanbigd]

its "free boat" new old engine part II

sorry did'nt give details, see previous "free boat gets an engine" or something like that. Trying to unstick a tight or seized 2003 volvo 3cylinder diesel from 1984. It was reported to always be slow cranking-hard starting, and never able to hand crank.

 

[kloudie1]

Mystery Oil

Big D, you probably should tighten all the valves, using the adjustment screws, so they do not seat. Or use some other way to make sure that no cylinder can have compression. Then tip the engine on its front end and apply mystery oil through the air silencer/cleaner/intake. I say all the valves because the engine may start on mystery oil if it frees up and has compression in one or more cylinders.. OUCH.. Just twiddling it could fire one cylinder and if anyone’s soft parts are in the way, it will hurt.
Set it upright then and leave it for a day or so.. then try the crank.
If you are going to rebuild it anyway, now would be the time to pull the head and put the mystery oil in the cylinders to free it up. It would also let you see if all the rods and rotating stuff are turning at the same time.

 

[tommays]

IMHP

If this motor is really STUCK then running it after soaking it with oil is just going to dammage the cylinder/pistons/rings


Vs a more painfull teardown that would allow minor rust to be cleand out with a hone

 

[sailormanbigd]

thanks kloudie but do i drain the engine oil first?

do i drain the oil first? How much mystery ooil should i use? the engine hold something like 4 quarts, i got three (all they had) thanks, Patrick

 

[Ross in Tampa]

forgive my ignorance...

don't you just add the mystery oil in the spark plug sockets???

 

[Tim R.]

We don't need no stinking spark plugs!

It's a diesel Ross.

 

[tommays]

Injectors

You would pull the injectors and pour the oil in there PUTTING it in with the motor is not going to do anything

 

[sailormanbigd]

not sure if its stuck

technically it is stuck-can't budge it with the hand crank. But the po stated its always been that way, never was able to hand crank it. Also, it was always hard to start, slow cranking (he suggested i buy a super duper battery for it). he used to have to use the compression release handle to get it to start and i think he used ether starting fluid. I am just trying to get some advice regarding volvo diesel to which i know practically nothing. I woud assume that the engineers that designed the engine had a reason for haveing a hand crank on it? The po stated that after he would get it started it ran fine, just dam hard to get started, enough so that he spent money to remove it and install a yanmar-used. If i have to i will totally rebuid it, but was told by some to try mystery oil first? Patrick

 

[sailormanbigd]

mystery solved-sort-of

Just got off the phone with a knowledgeable volvo mechanic-Dick Vosbury (thanks Ross). 1. the motor is supposed to crank by hand. 2. the only way to get mystery oil into the cylinders is to remove the injectors. Putting oil in the intake will only work on the cylinders that have the intake valves open.
3. since the starter is off i can try prying on the flywheel ring gear teath to turn the engine. 4. remove the transmision. the bearrings in the trany can become seized up and not let the engine turn over. 5. If the po had such a hard tiome starting the engine and used ether then i could have a burnt piston. Anyway you shake it i will have to pull the head off anyway-right?

 

[sailormanbigd]

ITS ALIVE, ITS ALIVE, HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!!

I used a screwdriver on the flywheel teeth and pryed alittle and it moved! Did it some more-got easier. Grabbed the hand crank and it moved about 90 degrees and stoped. So i pryed alittle more and it moved. Then i cranked 360 degrees rotation. Then i cranked about 4 revolutions and i could hear a definate thumping sound. I put it on decomress of only two cylinders and it thumped and made a whoosh(compression/exhaust) then i tried it with all three cylinders on full compression and it really sounded good-alive and i could spin it with the crank fairly easily sort of-took two hands. Yeeeeehaaaaaaa guys. Its not froze up!!!!!!! All good except i pumped out about a quart of oil onto my carport-from some open tube thingy.(can i say thingy?) Now what-phase two. I guess i can get the starter check/rebuilt and get the diesel ready to run on the "test" stand.hehehe, i am so happy! Now how do i go about running the motor off the boat....needs fuel-five gallon diesel can, needs air-clean intake silencer/filter. needs some sort of way to shut it off (can i strt it without 12v and keyswitch/stop cable attached ? Anyway, life is good today!!!!
thanks everyone for helping. Patrick

 

[kloudie1]

More Mystery Oil

Mechanic is absolutely correct.. is why I said you’d have to tighten the valve adjustment screws to get the valves to not seat (open always).. I wouldn’t change the old oil since you are going to get into the engine anyway, as long as the old oil is not full of water or diesel, leave it in there until you are ready to start pulling stuff apart. The rings are most likely stuck from water getting in the cylinders when they pulled the engine out.. but it could be a lot of things like the gearbox, depending on how it was stored prior to you getting it.
Yep, you are right, pulling the head before doing anything else is probably the most prudent path forward.
Whole lot of things that could have made it hard to start.. without knowing what the PO had done to the engine, it would be a shot(s) in the dark … Since it ran ok after starting, I’d look for something that leaked slowly and would affect the engine less at higher RPM.. like a leaking valve or valves on either intake or exhaust which may have been caused by being adjusted too tightly. Bad check valves in the fuel delivery pump are another and a leaking head gasket is another. Just some guesses.. You will probably have a “EUREKA!” moment when you see the problem as you rebuild.
I don’t know what Volvo recommends but I use a universal diesel and gasoline rated oil in all my four stroke engines.. Shell Rotella T Synthetic is one such oil; there are others. I wouldn't put mystery oil in the crankcase.

 

[sailormanbigd]

how bout this

what if its the starter? What if the starter was draging for all those years and did'nt spin the engine fast enough to get enough heat going for compression. That wold be the shit if all i had to do was spend 80$ or so and have the starter rebuilt!!!??Maybe?

 

[Ross]

OK Patrick stop there for now.

The oil may have come from the oil pressure sensor outlet. Get the engine bolted to a cradle. Run an intake water hose to a five gallon bucket of water. Find and rig the engine stop cable. Check the cooling water impeller. She may start easily and you will need to be able to shut her down. Reset the fuel rack by pulling the stop cable a couple of times. Rig a throttle control.

 

[Ctskip]

Put the mystery oil in the injector holes

allow to sit for a few days (loosens stuck rings/ pistons). Turn over by hand several times with injectors out. Replace injectors. I would remove the transmission as this could also cause drag on the motor. Install starter, mount on a cradle, do as Ross suggested with controls. get a outboard motor fuel tank with a primer bulb, cut off end of hose, clamp to motor and fill with fresh diesel. Hook up electrical system(starter) and cooling set-up (bucket), fresh oil and filter and you are ready to fire her up.
Good luck.

Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[sailormanbigd]

thanks

i will do all these things. thanks. Also, a great benefit is the ability to crank the motor. I will be able to check other things out. I work the next two days 912hr shift) but will get on as soon as posible. Just the sort of kick in the ass i needed to go forward on "free boat". Patrick

 

[RichH]

DO NOT BREAK THE PISTON RINGS !!!!!

If the engine is apparently 'frozen', using the sxtarter to 'break it loose' will most probably break the piston rings.
Open/remove the injectors, and squirt in a tablespoonful of MMO and let it soak for several DAYS.
Take a long handled 'breaker bar' and socket and attach it to the crankshaft pulley attachment oolt and GENTLY attempt to 'rock-it' back and forth. If the crankshaft begins to rotate without much force, slowly turn the crankshaft for several revolutions but dont FORCE it!!!!!
If you get resistance to the breaker bar with socket keep adding MMO to the combustion chamber (and wait a day or two for it to soak, then repeat with the breaker bar + adding MMO as above until the cranshaft freely turns. Dont FORCE the crankshaft, dont use a screwdriver in the teeth of the the flywheel ... and for God's sake DONT USE THE STARTER. Your goal is add MMO and trial rotations with the breaker bar until you can fully rotate the crankshaft --- WITHOUT any FORCE. NO FORCING IT unless you want to install new piston rings.

Once the engine fully and freely turns, then consider to use the starter.
Add/fill the crankcase with sufficient MMO to bring the level up to the 'dipstick' level, start the engine; but, let it IDLE only until 'warm'. Once warm slowly bring the rpm up to operating rpm (with NO LOAD on the engine -- totally in 'neutral'. This step with MMO filled crankcase will begin to 're-polish' the cylinder walls and piston ring grooves. IMPORTANT - run the engine with NO LOAD on it (especially with MMO in the crankcase).
Then after the engine has run-in for some time; then, drain the MMO (difficult to do if the engine is at an 'angle' and not straight horizontal). Then fill with straight 30 weight oil and run the engine with load but dont 'beat it'. Slowly bring the engine up to speed with load applied ... dont 'gun it'. During this section you will need to quickly/suddenly 'back down' the rpm to help re-seat the piston rings, etc.
Then change out the oil once more and replace with your choice of 'normal' oil (and 1qt. of MMO) thereafter.

Dont BREAK THE PISTON RINGS BY FORCING the engine to turn over ... be patient, keep adding MMO and wait a day or so before additional trials with the breaker bar, etc.

 

[BobM]

Next steps

Shut down is easy. Just close the throttle down. My yanmar just starves fuel to shut down in this manner. There is a cable pull that allows the throttle to drop further than normal. This can be easily simulated by adjusting (lowering) the idle.

Definitely go with a dose of Marvel Mystery Oil then be sure to check your compression. I'd probably follow the MMO with some 30 weight as the thin MMO will likely affect your ability to get a good seal / true compression reading even if the rings are still good.

If the compression is bad, then off with its head!

 

[Ross]

The 2003 engine has a separate stop cable/lever

on the lower right hand side of the engine when viewed from the front. That will stop the engine from a full throttle(NOT recommended).

 

[CalebD]

Hey Patrick, congrats on the engine again

You got that stubborn MF to turn over! That is great news.
As the older budweiser crowd here is advocating I would take it slow at this point. RichH among the other repsonders has a lot of credentials that I don't so I wouldn't want you to make things harder for yourself by going too fast (and breaking the piston rings which would really suck and might require a real mechanic to fix). Sometimes less is more.
I (and jviss) recommended the Marvel Mystery Oil treatment (once you figured out how to apply it to the engine through the injectors) and at least it is now turning over. My advice would be to start draining the old oil from the crank case and let the MMO be in the cylinders for a day or two. I would also put some good oil (1 to 2 qts) ALONG WITH some additional MMO (about 1 qt) back into the crankcase and hand turn it a bit for a day or so. Then you drain the crank case from as low a point as you can to get as much oil and crap out of there as possible (bring old oil to an auto oil change place). The more oil you move through the engine the more you will clean it's oil system out. You can use 'cheap' oil for the rinses but when you finally feel that it is moving smoothly only use a good oil like 'Rotella T' which has all the additives for both gas and diesel engines (30W would be my guess for you down in Florida). Multiple oil changes are a cheap way to clean out the crap that can be sitting at the bottom of the engine.

As others have mentioned you will want to rig up a water cooling supply, a fuel cutoff mechanism (diesels can keep going for quite a while after shut off) and disconnect the tranny if possible before you start. I STRONGLY recommend that you check the water pump impeller now (before you start it) so that you know it will be cooled once you do get her going.

I would do most of my oil changes after the engine has been able to run but it is still cheap insurance to know that the oil is clean.

And you thought that MMO was 'snake oil'?
We are not trying to steer you wrong dude. It is one of the few automotive products that actually does something.

Here is a link to my engines Guru on the topic of Marvel Mystery oil: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633&highlight=Marvel+Mystery
Your mileage may vary.