OK, I received all the info I need on the "Oil suction device" and I could really feel the love in all the responses. Next question for you oil gurus. There must be a differance between the oils. When I was at the auto parts store I noticed quarts of oil maked "Diesel" and that is what I used. I am guessing that oil for diesels has move detergent than oil for gas engines?. That is just a guess. Someone want to set me straight on the difference. Also, could you use oil maked for Diesel in a gas motor and vice a versa. I am curious in case of an emergency. thanks, Jack
- Status
You bet there's a difference. Just a minute though
Here's some more love; OOOOOO. You get hugs, not kisses. OK, back to oil. Never use the latest grades of gasoline engine oil in a diesel engine. In fact, don't use it in older gasoline engines with flat tappet cams. The protective anti pressure additives are gone. The old additives are not needed in a modern roller cam engine and they aren't 'catalytic converter' friendly. For older gas engines, Hotrod magazine says to only use diesel oil. And the list of additives and such in modern oil is a college-degree subject. And nearly endless too. Where's my Hotrod?
Here's some more love; OOOOOO. You get hugs, not kisses. OK, back to oil. Never use the latest grades of gasoline engine oil in a diesel engine. In fact, don't use it in older gasoline engines with flat tappet cams. The protective anti pressure additives are gone. The old additives are not needed in a modern roller cam engine and they aren't 'catalytic converter' friendly. For older gas engines, Hotrod magazine says to only use diesel oil. And the list of additives and such in modern oil is a college-degree subject. And nearly endless too. Where's my Hotrod?
OK Fred, so your saying...
You should use oil mark "Diesel" in older un-sophisticated gas engines? Like a lawn mover, generator or that 1969 big block chevy and never use oil for a gas engine in a diesel. Correct? I just wouldn't have a clue as to what old gas engine would have a flat tappet cam. Thanks, Jack
You should use oil mark "Diesel" in older un-sophisticated gas engines? Like a lawn mover, generator or that 1969 big block chevy and never use oil for a gas engine in a diesel. Correct? I just wouldn't have a clue as to what old gas engine would have a flat tappet cam. Thanks, Jack
Jack, If You Had One You Would Know
I can not think of any reason to have one now anyway. My uncle gave me a '65 Mustang with them when I was in High School and while it was fun it was a pain in the rear. I was able to get down to Matamoros faster than anyone else though.
I can not think of any reason to have one now anyway. My uncle gave me a '65 Mustang with them when I was in High School and while it was fun it was a pain in the rear. I was able to get down to Matamoros faster than anyone else though.
I've been very happy with Chevron's Delo-400...
single grade 30 for our Yanmar. Replace it and the filter every 100 hours or each season, whichever comes first. I buy it by the six gallon case at Costco. Good for several seasons. Terry
single grade 30 for our Yanmar. Replace it and the filter every 100 hours or each season, whichever comes first. I buy it by the six gallon case at Costco. Good for several seasons. Terry
Yes use a diesel labeled oil.
But the name of the game is viscosity. The temperature of the water and ambient temperatures as well as the condition of the engine dictate the viscosity or grade to be utilized. A thick oil in cold weather will make an engine slugish to crank but it will provide for increased compression on a well worn engine. In the summer an oil that may be too thin may rob the engine of necessary protection. A thick oil may rob power and cause increased fuel consumption. On a new engine in the summer I may use straight 30 weight but for that same engine in the winter I may use 10w-30 multigrade. In an older engine in the summer I may use 20W-50 and in the winter perhaps 15W-40. It is important to check the oil before going out. I check for level and wipe the stick between my thumb and fore finger to test the viscosity. If a good lasting oily film is felt the oil is good. If the oily film is too thin or seems to wear down rather quickly it is time to change the oil. A higher or lower level of oil since last check may be an indicator of possible problems. A failed head gasket may allow coolant into the crankcase; a failed fuel pump diaphram may allow fuel into the crankcase. This will increase volume and emulsify and dilute the oil. A lower level may point to an oil leak or oil burning. Keep track of the hours of operation since the last oil change as this will determine whether viscosity breakdown is a result of normal usable oil life or a possible problem. In an enclosed environment like the transmission I will use a synthetic oil as it will retain its viscocity much longer than regular oil. The worst friction related wear on an engine occurs upon a cold startup; the oil has drained down into the crankcase, there is no oil pressure for a few fractions of a second and you are just relying on that thin film of oil that may have attached itself to the internal parts. The reason the oil on a diesel gets black is because a combustion byproduct gets blown by the rings into the crankcase by the explosive forces. Older oils used to foam and residues resulted in sludge build up on the engines so I consider modern oils to be superior in performance and longevity. I do not know what additives may be added or omitted from Diesel labeled oil but it will not hurt to use it.
But the name of the game is viscosity. The temperature of the water and ambient temperatures as well as the condition of the engine dictate the viscosity or grade to be utilized. A thick oil in cold weather will make an engine slugish to crank but it will provide for increased compression on a well worn engine. In the summer an oil that may be too thin may rob the engine of necessary protection. A thick oil may rob power and cause increased fuel consumption. On a new engine in the summer I may use straight 30 weight but for that same engine in the winter I may use 10w-30 multigrade. In an older engine in the summer I may use 20W-50 and in the winter perhaps 15W-40. It is important to check the oil before going out. I check for level and wipe the stick between my thumb and fore finger to test the viscosity. If a good lasting oily film is felt the oil is good. If the oily film is too thin or seems to wear down rather quickly it is time to change the oil. A higher or lower level of oil since last check may be an indicator of possible problems. A failed head gasket may allow coolant into the crankcase; a failed fuel pump diaphram may allow fuel into the crankcase. This will increase volume and emulsify and dilute the oil. A lower level may point to an oil leak or oil burning. Keep track of the hours of operation since the last oil change as this will determine whether viscosity breakdown is a result of normal usable oil life or a possible problem. In an enclosed environment like the transmission I will use a synthetic oil as it will retain its viscocity much longer than regular oil. The worst friction related wear on an engine occurs upon a cold startup; the oil has drained down into the crankcase, there is no oil pressure for a few fractions of a second and you are just relying on that thin film of oil that may have attached itself to the internal parts. The reason the oil on a diesel gets black is because a combustion byproduct gets blown by the rings into the crankcase by the explosive forces. Older oils used to foam and residues resulted in sludge build up on the engines so I consider modern oils to be superior in performance and longevity. I do not know what additives may be added or omitted from Diesel labeled oil but it will not hurt to use it.
Fun facts to know and tell about oil
There is still alot to be said for "straight" grade motor oils. The advent of multi-viscosity oils has complicated what was once a simple matter. I would reccommend that one go with the manufacturers recs., absent a compelling reason not to do so. That being said, multi-vis oils consist of a base oil and additives. If you are running 20W50, the oil is 20 weight oil with viscosity index improvers. Viscosity, as we all remember, is the resistence to flow. A higher vis oil flows more slowly. We used to run higher viscosity in the summer and lower in the winter. The higher gave us more protection in the summer, as the oil does the majority of the cooling in the engine. The low vis we ran in the winter made for easier cranking, when ultimate cooling was not an issue. Now multi-vis oils have a problem in that their additives break down. When the additives break down in 20W50 you are left with straight 20 weight. When you are running 5W30 in an older engine you could have issues. Newer vehicles are all going to low multi-vis oils, mostly for fuel economy. Longevity of the engine is never brought up! If you are an oil change fanatic, the use of multi-vis may never be a problem, and may be the best way to go. But, on that older motor, it's amazing what a straight 30W oil will do. Oil consumption and smoking go down, and cooling ability goes up. Starting, in cold weather, may be a little harder, but under heavy use you will always have 30W oil. 40W is common in some bikes where the cooling is even more oil dependant. I would reccommend straight grade oil unless the manufacturer specifically reccs against it. Porsche finally went away from straight grade oil in the mid-eighties, about 15 years after evrybody else. Could it have been all that experience with air-cooled motors that made them reluctant? One concern on straight vis oil is the detergent, or lack thereof. All multi-vis I know of are detergent oils. You will often fine non-detergent straight weight oils. They are fine to use (?), but then you should stay with them; switching back to detergent oil is going to break loose a lot of schmutz in your engine. Best to stay with detergent right along; but read the label-they're out there. Diesel engines should probably stay on multi-vis, but still run the higher the vis you can depending on weather. Diesels, with their higher compression ratios, need the lower vis cranking ease. Oil changing on a diesel is very important as the first thing to wear are your rings, and there goes your compression. After you start your motor, any motor, stop and have a cigarette or at least the time it takes to smoke a cigarette, before you rev the engine. 90% of the wear on an engine is done in the first minutes of running. Let that oil get up to the top end of the motor where it will do it's job. Don't get me going on chokes and the harm they can do. Warm it up and it'll treat you right for years to come.
There is still alot to be said for "straight" grade motor oils. The advent of multi-viscosity oils has complicated what was once a simple matter. I would reccommend that one go with the manufacturers recs., absent a compelling reason not to do so. That being said, multi-vis oils consist of a base oil and additives. If you are running 20W50, the oil is 20 weight oil with viscosity index improvers. Viscosity, as we all remember, is the resistence to flow. A higher vis oil flows more slowly. We used to run higher viscosity in the summer and lower in the winter. The higher gave us more protection in the summer, as the oil does the majority of the cooling in the engine. The low vis we ran in the winter made for easier cranking, when ultimate cooling was not an issue. Now multi-vis oils have a problem in that their additives break down. When the additives break down in 20W50 you are left with straight 20 weight. When you are running 5W30 in an older engine you could have issues. Newer vehicles are all going to low multi-vis oils, mostly for fuel economy. Longevity of the engine is never brought up! If you are an oil change fanatic, the use of multi-vis may never be a problem, and may be the best way to go. But, on that older motor, it's amazing what a straight 30W oil will do. Oil consumption and smoking go down, and cooling ability goes up. Starting, in cold weather, may be a little harder, but under heavy use you will always have 30W oil. 40W is common in some bikes where the cooling is even more oil dependant. I would reccommend straight grade oil unless the manufacturer specifically reccs against it. Porsche finally went away from straight grade oil in the mid-eighties, about 15 years after evrybody else. Could it have been all that experience with air-cooled motors that made them reluctant? One concern on straight vis oil is the detergent, or lack thereof. All multi-vis I know of are detergent oils. You will often fine non-detergent straight weight oils. They are fine to use (?), but then you should stay with them; switching back to detergent oil is going to break loose a lot of schmutz in your engine. Best to stay with detergent right along; but read the label-they're out there. Diesel engines should probably stay on multi-vis, but still run the higher the vis you can depending on weather. Diesels, with their higher compression ratios, need the lower vis cranking ease. Oil changing on a diesel is very important as the first thing to wear are your rings, and there goes your compression. After you start your motor, any motor, stop and have a cigarette or at least the time it takes to smoke a cigarette, before you rev the engine. 90% of the wear on an engine is done in the first minutes of running. Let that oil get up to the top end of the motor where it will do it's job. Don't get me going on chokes and the harm they can do. Warm it up and it'll treat you right for years to come.
Diesel Oil
Perhaps like Terry and Guy's posts, I've been using Chevron Delo 400 straight SAE 30 in my 20 yr old Yanmar 2GM20F and very happy with it. Also use the same oil for the transmission. Engine purrs, no smoke, and burns no oil. Yanmars are noted for being cold hearted beasts and so I lend mine a helping hand when starting it on very cold days: I run a hair dryer aimed at the air intake for a few minutes before cranking. The engine thinks its (1) mid-summer and/or (2) the oil is multi-grade, and starts instantly.
Perhaps like Terry and Guy's posts, I've been using Chevron Delo 400 straight SAE 30 in my 20 yr old Yanmar 2GM20F and very happy with it. Also use the same oil for the transmission. Engine purrs, no smoke, and burns no oil. Yanmars are noted for being cold hearted beasts and so I lend mine a helping hand when starting it on very cold days: I run a hair dryer aimed at the air intake for a few minutes before cranking. The engine thinks its (1) mid-summer and/or (2) the oil is multi-grade, and starts instantly.
The skinny on "C" vs "S" oils
"C" meaning compression combustion engines and "S" meaning spark combustion engines (technically it really stands for S for "S"ervice (typical passenger cars and light trucks using gasoline engines) and C for "C"ommercial applications (typical diesel equipment). Typically "C" rated oils have much more detergents in them than an "S" rated oil. But it REALLY depends on the API Sequence tests.The classifications progress alphabetically as the level of lubricant performance increases. Each classification replaces those before it. But there are some much older engines that might not be compatible with newer classifications. Here are a few good explainations http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/saeviscosityclassificationsandmanf.requirements.htm http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/motor_oil_guide_1.htm You should check your the back of oil container - It is possible for an oil to conform to both the gasoline and diesel standards. (Even if the say Deisel on the front many have a "S" on the API label and vice-versa) I just went out to my garage and the two oils I have out there are rated for both gas and deisel engines (I believe CI-4 snd SL or SJ API rated) One was a DELO 400 from Chevron and the other a Castrol Synthetic Secondly- in an emergency I wouldn't "not" use an "S" rated oil in my deisel. I would just change it out when as soon as you could, it'll work, it might not clean the oil as well, etc. Most middle of the road oils these are vastly superior to oils just a decade ago Below are two great links to very interesting reading on engine oil First the engine oil bible http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html and second a good read from "Auto education" on engine oils http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change.htm
"C" meaning compression combustion engines and "S" meaning spark combustion engines (technically it really stands for S for "S"ervice (typical passenger cars and light trucks using gasoline engines) and C for "C"ommercial applications (typical diesel equipment). Typically "C" rated oils have much more detergents in them than an "S" rated oil. But it REALLY depends on the API Sequence tests.The classifications progress alphabetically as the level of lubricant performance increases. Each classification replaces those before it. But there are some much older engines that might not be compatible with newer classifications. Here are a few good explainations http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/saeviscosityclassificationsandmanf.requirements.htm http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/motor_oil_guide_1.htm You should check your the back of oil container - It is possible for an oil to conform to both the gasoline and diesel standards. (Even if the say Deisel on the front many have a "S" on the API label and vice-versa) I just went out to my garage and the two oils I have out there are rated for both gas and deisel engines (I believe CI-4 snd SL or SJ API rated) One was a DELO 400 from Chevron and the other a Castrol Synthetic Secondly- in an emergency I wouldn't "not" use an "S" rated oil in my deisel. I would just change it out when as soon as you could, it'll work, it might not clean the oil as well, etc. Most middle of the road oils these are vastly superior to oils just a decade ago Below are two great links to very interesting reading on engine oil First the engine oil bible http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html and second a good read from "Auto education" on engine oils http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change.htm
which oil: 15w40 or 30?
Benny and Guy - great posts - thanks. I have a new Yanmar 4JH3-TE 75hp turbo diesel and this is the first winter. I live in New York and will winterize our boat for layup over the next few weeks. My Yanmar manual clearly says to use 15W40 oil but the Yanmar parts brochure included with all my documentation describes two Yanmar oils - an SAE 30 and a 15W40. The brochure says that the 30 is for heavy duty applications and is designed for the JH series engines. The brochure says the 15W40 is for high performance engines. The local Yanmar dealer recommends the 30. Bottom line: The manual and the brochure are inconsistent. What should I use? I lean towards the 30 weight since I won't use the engine from November through March
and don't need the low vis of the multi-grade (the engine will probably never be started in temps less than 50 degrees). However, during the prime season I operate with outside temps around 90 degrees where the 40 weight might be better. I'll probably only average about 60 to 100 hours per season on the engine with an oil change every fall before layup which is probably long before the oil and additives in the multigrade start breaking down. I also don't know how the turbo impacts oil selection. It's probably splitting hairs for my usage but I'm curious ... Thanks.
Benny and Guy - great posts - thanks. I have a new Yanmar 4JH3-TE 75hp turbo diesel and this is the first winter. I live in New York and will winterize our boat for layup over the next few weeks. My Yanmar manual clearly says to use 15W40 oil but the Yanmar parts brochure included with all my documentation describes two Yanmar oils - an SAE 30 and a 15W40. The brochure says that the 30 is for heavy duty applications and is designed for the JH series engines. The brochure says the 15W40 is for high performance engines. The local Yanmar dealer recommends the 30. Bottom line: The manual and the brochure are inconsistent. What should I use? I lean towards the 30 weight since I won't use the engine from November through March
and don't need the low vis of the multi-grade (the engine will probably never be started in temps less than 50 degrees). However, during the prime season I operate with outside temps around 90 degrees where the 40 weight might be better. I'll probably only average about 60 to 100 hours per season on the engine with an oil change every fall before layup which is probably long before the oil and additives in the multigrade start breaking down. I also don't know how the turbo impacts oil selection. It's probably splitting hairs for my usage but I'm curious ... Thanks.I just found another great link to oils
The additive packages for C (commercial) certification are designed to promote engine life. The additive packages for C rated oils contain extra buffers and detergents to keep the engine clean and free of acids. C rated oils are far better than S oils at holding and dispersing combustion byproducts and other contaminants, and at not becoming acidic. Traditionally these oils are primarily used in diesel motors, which are very expensive and are expected to last a million miles or more. When an engine rebuild costs $10,000 - $15,000 and puts you out of work for a week or three, you don't mind paying a bit more for your oil. The C certification tests have been largely developed by Mack, Caterpillar, Detroit and Cummins to provide the additives necessary to keep these engines running a long time. The latest commercial certification is CI-4 Plus, which includes extra protection for high temperature high revving motors. Since it's designed for diesel motors, they don't care about no stinkin' catalytic thingies, and CAFE is a place where you get a cup of joe and a donut. CI-4 Plus differs from CI-4 with higher detergent requirements and better sheer stability. The shear stability is exactly what motorcycles need due to running the engine oil through the transmission. Although C standards are changed every few years, the older standards are enhanced, not superceded. So, newer higher rated C oils are simply better than older lower rated oils. Although few car owners test their oil regularly, most large trucking companies routinely do oil analysis on their diesel trucks. Used oils are checked for viscosity breakdown, for detergent and dispersant function, and for metal contamination that would indicate engine wear. C oils that don't measure up are quickly run off the market place. To prevent engine wear, the best strategy is to keep deposits off the pistons, rings, and bearings. Therefore, diesel oils typically contain half again more detergents, double the dispersants, and a much more expensive and robust VII package than S type oils. If you go to an auto parts store, convenience store, or grocery store, you'll see that there are dozens of brands of automotive oils, all claiming to be the best. If you look at truck stops, you'll see there are only a very few diesel oils sold, typically Rotella, Delo, and Delvac. Trucking companies find what works for them and won't switch. They're not interested in saving a dollar a gallon on some unknown oil. The C certified oils are all also S certified, just as some S certified oils are also C certified. The best C certified oils are SG, usually SH, sometimes SJ. I don't know of a C certified oil which is SL. The best S certified oils are CF, which is a relatively old and obsolete C standard, and does not include the tests for high speed high temperature engines that CG, CH, and CI have. In fact, CF oil does not meet the current factory standards for Volkswagen or Mercedes diesel passenger cars.
The additive packages for C (commercial) certification are designed to promote engine life. The additive packages for C rated oils contain extra buffers and detergents to keep the engine clean and free of acids. C rated oils are far better than S oils at holding and dispersing combustion byproducts and other contaminants, and at not becoming acidic. Traditionally these oils are primarily used in diesel motors, which are very expensive and are expected to last a million miles or more. When an engine rebuild costs $10,000 - $15,000 and puts you out of work for a week or three, you don't mind paying a bit more for your oil. The C certification tests have been largely developed by Mack, Caterpillar, Detroit and Cummins to provide the additives necessary to keep these engines running a long time. The latest commercial certification is CI-4 Plus, which includes extra protection for high temperature high revving motors. Since it's designed for diesel motors, they don't care about no stinkin' catalytic thingies, and CAFE is a place where you get a cup of joe and a donut. CI-4 Plus differs from CI-4 with higher detergent requirements and better sheer stability. The shear stability is exactly what motorcycles need due to running the engine oil through the transmission. Although C standards are changed every few years, the older standards are enhanced, not superceded. So, newer higher rated C oils are simply better than older lower rated oils. Although few car owners test their oil regularly, most large trucking companies routinely do oil analysis on their diesel trucks. Used oils are checked for viscosity breakdown, for detergent and dispersant function, and for metal contamination that would indicate engine wear. C oils that don't measure up are quickly run off the market place. To prevent engine wear, the best strategy is to keep deposits off the pistons, rings, and bearings. Therefore, diesel oils typically contain half again more detergents, double the dispersants, and a much more expensive and robust VII package than S type oils. If you go to an auto parts store, convenience store, or grocery store, you'll see that there are dozens of brands of automotive oils, all claiming to be the best. If you look at truck stops, you'll see there are only a very few diesel oils sold, typically Rotella, Delo, and Delvac. Trucking companies find what works for them and won't switch. They're not interested in saving a dollar a gallon on some unknown oil. The C certified oils are all also S certified, just as some S certified oils are also C certified. The best C certified oils are SG, usually SH, sometimes SJ. I don't know of a C certified oil which is SL. The best S certified oils are CF, which is a relatively old and obsolete C standard, and does not include the tests for high speed high temperature engines that CG, CH, and CI have. In fact, CF oil does not meet the current factory standards for Volkswagen or Mercedes diesel passenger cars.
mjb
In your case it sounds like straight 30W would be the ticket. Lets take a shot at why they would call for that grade in "heavy-duty" use, and 15W40 for "high performance" use. The 15W40 will flow better, as a result; there will be less friction losses associated with the lubricant. As stated previously, this is why you see auto manufacturers going to 5W30; less friction=high mpg. "Heavy-duty", on the other hand, implies were going to be putting stress on the oil during it's intended job. Stress could involve such things as long idling periods, with the attendant low cooling water flow, and situations where you really load the engine up, maybe backing down upon running aground. Also, anything that restricts good cooling water flow through the engine will place added stress on the oil. Remember, the oil actually does the majority of the cooling in any engine. The water disperses heat through-out the engine block, thereby avoiding hot spots, but is less effective in cooling than oil, since the oil is actually at the point of combustion, ie...heat generation. This is why engines used in racing, or in a well-designed power-train, have either larger oil storage capacities or oil coolers, often both. My '78 M-B 450SEL 6.9 (BIG motor) carries 11 quarts and has an oil cooler the size of some small car radiators. An oil cooler is a nice addition on any motor if properly plumbed with a thermostat. One side advantage to it is that you increase your oil capacity just by it's addition to the system! While we're on the topic. I am against the use of synthetic oils. They have their place, just not in anything I currently own. Remember, oil does not "break-down", rather; it becomes contaminated and diluted while doing it's job. Synthetic oil promotes the idea that it will last longer and you can, somehow, do oil changes less frequently. That's the road to early engine wear. Also, it does not like to blend with conventional oil, something that may have to be done if you are low on oil and have to use what's available. It is not worth the added cost IMHO. Engine oil analysis, as previously mentioned, is an excellent idea and cheap. Forewarned is fore-armed. Filter replacement is very important. Even if you cannot change your oil out, change the filter. When a filter becomes plugged, the filter block bypasses oil with out filtering back to the sump and dirty oil is the number one cause of excessive engine wear. Smart operators tend to change their oil, even if it's not "due", versus running past their change date later. Of course you have an hour meter on your engine so you know when it's due. Hope this has been helpful. Remember, we have to take our engine out of the boat to do anything significant on it, unlike my truck, and the question of how they got the damn thing in there in the first place has been asked more than once! Good, fresh oil equals prevention.
In your case it sounds like straight 30W would be the ticket. Lets take a shot at why they would call for that grade in "heavy-duty" use, and 15W40 for "high performance" use. The 15W40 will flow better, as a result; there will be less friction losses associated with the lubricant. As stated previously, this is why you see auto manufacturers going to 5W30; less friction=high mpg. "Heavy-duty", on the other hand, implies were going to be putting stress on the oil during it's intended job. Stress could involve such things as long idling periods, with the attendant low cooling water flow, and situations where you really load the engine up, maybe backing down upon running aground. Also, anything that restricts good cooling water flow through the engine will place added stress on the oil. Remember, the oil actually does the majority of the cooling in any engine. The water disperses heat through-out the engine block, thereby avoiding hot spots, but is less effective in cooling than oil, since the oil is actually at the point of combustion, ie...heat generation. This is why engines used in racing, or in a well-designed power-train, have either larger oil storage capacities or oil coolers, often both. My '78 M-B 450SEL 6.9 (BIG motor) carries 11 quarts and has an oil cooler the size of some small car radiators. An oil cooler is a nice addition on any motor if properly plumbed with a thermostat. One side advantage to it is that you increase your oil capacity just by it's addition to the system! While we're on the topic. I am against the use of synthetic oils. They have their place, just not in anything I currently own. Remember, oil does not "break-down", rather; it becomes contaminated and diluted while doing it's job. Synthetic oil promotes the idea that it will last longer and you can, somehow, do oil changes less frequently. That's the road to early engine wear. Also, it does not like to blend with conventional oil, something that may have to be done if you are low on oil and have to use what's available. It is not worth the added cost IMHO. Engine oil analysis, as previously mentioned, is an excellent idea and cheap. Forewarned is fore-armed. Filter replacement is very important. Even if you cannot change your oil out, change the filter. When a filter becomes plugged, the filter block bypasses oil with out filtering back to the sump and dirty oil is the number one cause of excessive engine wear. Smart operators tend to change their oil, even if it's not "due", versus running past their change date later. Of course you have an hour meter on your engine so you know when it's due. Hope this has been helpful. Remember, we have to take our engine out of the boat to do anything significant on it, unlike my truck, and the question of how they got the damn thing in there in the first place has been asked more than once! Good, fresh oil equals prevention.
Guy, saying that synthetics shouldn't be blended
with petroleum Oil (dead dinosaurs ) is an old wives tale. Is it cost effective, probably not, but there is nothing wrong with it these days You might be surprised to know that almost all Synthetic oils are not even true "Full Syntehics" but rather Dinosaur Oil that been "ultra refined" to remove almost all the secondary things in "dino oil" (tar, paraffin and wax,etc.) "In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed. Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has nearly the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. The much more expensive traditional synthetics are now available in their pure forms only in more expensive and harder to obtain oils. To the best of my knowledge, Delvac-1, AMSOil, Redline, and Motul 5100 are the only oils made from pure traditional synthetics. " You can read more here -- > http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html Another important point- its not necessarily the "freshness" of the oil but "Clean-ness" of the oil. Like you said oil doesn't really go bad but it gets dirty (quality of air and oil filters are very important)and that is what causes more wear.
with petroleum Oil (dead dinosaurs
) is an old wives tale. Is it cost effective, probably not, but there is nothing wrong with it these days You might be surprised to know that almost all Synthetic oils are not even true "Full Syntehics" but rather Dinosaur Oil that been "ultra refined" to remove almost all the secondary things in "dino oil" (tar, paraffin and wax,etc.) "In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed. Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has nearly the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. The much more expensive traditional synthetics are now available in their pure forms only in more expensive and harder to obtain oils. To the best of my knowledge, Delvac-1, AMSOil, Redline, and Motul 5100 are the only oils made from pure traditional synthetics. " You can read more here -- > http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html Another important point- its not necessarily the "freshness" of the oil but "Clean-ness" of the oil. Like you said oil doesn't really go bad but it gets dirty (quality of air and oil filters are very important)and that is what causes more wear.Two basic standards for oil
The American Petroleum Institute ( API ) Service Classification and the Society of Auto. Engineers ( SAE ) Viscosity Index are two things that are important in selecting the correct lubricant. Buying a 'name brand' oil from a reputable refiner is also a concern: Shell, Castrol, Mobil etc etc won't put their name on a product that doesn't meet strict criteria, as indicated by the API & SAE designators. The API service classification for diesel engines is indicated by two letters, the first of which is 'C': the second letter may be D, E, G, H etc. As the formulation was improved or modified the designator letter advanced down the alphabet, so an oil designated CH is 'better' than, and replaces the CD, CE etc etc. Oils designed for gas engine service have an API classification starting with the letter 'S' : some oils are suitable for both diesel AND gas engines and they will carry both API service designators (SE-CH for example). The second concern is getting the correct weight (viscosity , thickness,etc ) and this is indicated by the SAE number: the higher the number, the thicker the oil, at normal operating temperatures. Multi-grade oils carry 2 numbers, showing the thickness of the oil when cold (the first number, followed by the letter W) and at operating temp. The only advantage to using a multi-grade oil in the engine of a sailboat is that the engine will crank easier when cold, putting less load on the batteries and starter motor. Given the replacement cost of a diesel starter, I guess that may be enuf justification in itself, but at operating temps the multi-grade 10W-30 performs the same as a straight SAE 30 weight oil. In theory, anyway. Sustained high temperatures & loading may justify changing to a higher viscosity, and when an engine has a lot of hours on it, the bearing clearances and the worn oil pump may appreciate the heavier oil too. Oils formulated for diesel use have, among other things, a greater amt. of detergents and this is what keeps sludge in suspension. Were it not for the detergents, diesel engines would produce more sludge than gas engines. I don't like to contradict the well-meant comments in previous posts, but quote Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual", Second Edition, P.253 ......." As the oil does its work, the additives and detergents are steadily used up. The oil wears out." It goes on to comment on sludge formation & other issues relating to the benefits of regular oil & filter changes. It's worth reading.
The American Petroleum Institute ( API ) Service Classification and the Society of Auto. Engineers ( SAE ) Viscosity Index are two things that are important in selecting the correct lubricant. Buying a 'name brand' oil from a reputable refiner is also a concern: Shell, Castrol, Mobil etc etc won't put their name on a product that doesn't meet strict criteria, as indicated by the API & SAE designators. The API service classification for diesel engines is indicated by two letters, the first of which is 'C': the second letter may be D, E, G, H etc. As the formulation was improved or modified the designator letter advanced down the alphabet, so an oil designated CH is 'better' than, and replaces the CD, CE etc etc. Oils designed for gas engine service have an API classification starting with the letter 'S' : some oils are suitable for both diesel AND gas engines and they will carry both API service designators (SE-CH for example). The second concern is getting the correct weight (viscosity , thickness,etc ) and this is indicated by the SAE number: the higher the number, the thicker the oil, at normal operating temperatures. Multi-grade oils carry 2 numbers, showing the thickness of the oil when cold (the first number, followed by the letter W) and at operating temp. The only advantage to using a multi-grade oil in the engine of a sailboat is that the engine will crank easier when cold, putting less load on the batteries and starter motor. Given the replacement cost of a diesel starter, I guess that may be enuf justification in itself, but at operating temps the multi-grade 10W-30 performs the same as a straight SAE 30 weight oil. In theory, anyway. Sustained high temperatures & loading may justify changing to a higher viscosity, and when an engine has a lot of hours on it, the bearing clearances and the worn oil pump may appreciate the heavier oil too. Oils formulated for diesel use have, among other things, a greater amt. of detergents and this is what keeps sludge in suspension. Were it not for the detergents, diesel engines would produce more sludge than gas engines. I don't like to contradict the well-meant comments in previous posts, but quote Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual", Second Edition, P.253 ......." As the oil does its work, the additives and detergents are steadily used up. The oil wears out." It goes on to comment on sludge formation & other issues relating to the benefits of regular oil & filter changes. It's worth reading.
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