I recently bought a third interest in a boat that has a Yanmar 35 hp 3 cylinder engine. The previous partners had installed a fitting, hose and shut-off valve from the oil sensor unit. When they wish to change oil, they warm up the engine, put the end of the hose in a container and open the valve – letting the oil out under pressure, while the motor is running. It’s left to empty the oil until the sensor sees no oil pressure and shuts down the engine. Then the filter is changed, oil added and the engine re-started. Sounds like a slick way to change oil, but I can’t help to think it’s a dangerous method or treatment to the motor. That even for those couple of seconds of not having oil in the pan for the crankshaft could induce great (expensive) harm. What’s your option?
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Wayne
I wouldn't do it
I don't think this is a good idea. It looks like a recipe for disaster. Also you cannot get all the oil out this way. When it drops below the pickup screen on the oil pump then the remaining dirty oil will stay in the engine not to mention the potential damage to bearings and oil pump when they run dry briefly. I vacuum out my oil through the dipstick tube.
I don't think this is a good idea. It looks like a recipe for disaster. Also you cannot get all the oil out this way. When it drops below the pickup screen on the oil pump then the remaining dirty oil will stay in the engine not to mention the potential damage to bearings and oil pump when they run dry briefly. I vacuum out my oil through the dipstick tube.
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Gail
WHY
Oil changes are not dificult using a suction system. I do not know itgets it all?????????? I would not cause concern by modifying the system. In a partnership I would be concerned about how many hours between changes. In my case, I use the boat on average twice a week and change every October. I know this is not much of an answer. My goal is to always have a crankase filled to the proper level and never run it below that level.
Oil changes are not dificult using a suction system. I do not know itgets it all?????????? I would not cause concern by modifying the system. In a partnership I would be concerned about how many hours between changes. In my case, I use the boat on average twice a week and change every October. I know this is not much of an answer. My goal is to always have a crankase filled to the proper level and never run it below that level.
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D J
Would you do it that way in your car?
I'm with you Michael . . . it looks like disaster waiting to happen. They make some neat suction units that work by hand pump or electric motor. You probably are familiar with them. See p 538 Boat US catelog.
I'm with you Michael . . . it looks like disaster waiting to happen. They make some neat suction units that work by hand pump or electric motor. You probably are familiar with them. See p 538 Boat US catelog.
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Dan
Partners can be real interesting
I used to spend as much on airplanes as I now do on sailboats. Had a partner once who decided it was a good idea to replace a high temp duct that broke by splicing in a plastic sleve. Fortunately for me, I was able to shut down the heater and the fire went out. Unfortunately for him, I was flying the airplane when said sleve caught on fire and I made sure that he would never work on the airplane again. This is serious stuff. An engine failure in a sailboat at an inoportune time can cost lives. Not that you should not be prepared for that eventuality anytime, but how stupid would you feel if it seized and an accident occurred. First, hire enough help to determine if your partners know what they are doing, and to the extent that they do not, tell them to leave it the hell alone. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
I used to spend as much on airplanes as I now do on sailboats. Had a partner once who decided it was a good idea to replace a high temp duct that broke by splicing in a plastic sleve. Fortunately for me, I was able to shut down the heater and the fire went out. Unfortunately for him, I was flying the airplane when said sleve caught on fire and I made sure that he would never work on the airplane again. This is serious stuff. An engine failure in a sailboat at an inoportune time can cost lives. Not that you should not be prepared for that eventuality anytime, but how stupid would you feel if it seized and an accident occurred. First, hire enough help to determine if your partners know what they are doing, and to the extent that they do not, tell them to leave it the hell alone. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
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Andy
Not a recipe for disaster
its a lame brain idea! It may work forever but it's not prudent. I agree with what the others have said except that I would be much more upset with my partners-unless they want to pay for the new engine! They probably use "will fit" filters too because it was easier to pick them up at Kmart
its a lame brain idea! It may work forever but it's not prudent. I agree with what the others have said except that I would be much more upset with my partners-unless they want to pay for the new engine! They probably use "will fit" filters too because it was easier to pick them up at Kmart
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Rob R.
50 bucks - Oil Boy - Your favorite Chandelry...
The reason you need oil pressure in the first place is to push oil to critical areas far from the crank case (where gravity naturally pulls it). So, without pressure, these areas (heads, rods, valvetrain, etc) are not being lubricated, correct? Why in the name of the seven mad gods of the sea would your partners want to detract from the lubrication of a critical part of the engine such as a valve, cam, bearing, or pushrod? Granted, I am not experienced with diesels, but common sense dictates that you get an Oil Boy or similar vacuum device and remove the oil through the dipstick filler. WORKS GREAT! And you'll change the oil more frequently knowing how easy and safe it is. Best of Luck - Rob
The reason you need oil pressure in the first place is to push oil to critical areas far from the crank case (where gravity naturally pulls it). So, without pressure, these areas (heads, rods, valvetrain, etc) are not being lubricated, correct? Why in the name of the seven mad gods of the sea would your partners want to detract from the lubrication of a critical part of the engine such as a valve, cam, bearing, or pushrod? Granted, I am not experienced with diesels, but common sense dictates that you get an Oil Boy or similar vacuum device and remove the oil through the dipstick filler. WORKS GREAT! And you'll change the oil more frequently knowing how easy and safe it is. Best of Luck - Rob
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Michael Bell
Thank you everyone
What you're saying is what I had expected to hear. The difficult part now is how to tell them.
What you're saying is what I had expected to hear. The difficult part now is how to tell them.
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Peter J. Brennan
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Pete
oil change?Mitchell
Mitchell,read you post and followed it with great interest.As for how to approch your partners with the oil changeing maybe you could step forward and accept engine mantance as your added commitment to the boat and partnership. This way you can change the oil and not use that "running drain" method. That is the first I have ever heard of it and it sound like a engine failure waiting to happen.Another idea might be to talk with a "Yanmar" authorized mehanic and get his method of oil draining. Also read the engine manual and Yanmar factory method.I have a small electric oil pump and like that the best.All of the other idea posted are good and all have the common theme of the engine oil being drained with the engine shut down. I would suggest that the odds on using your partners method are they are the only ones doing it that way !
Mitchell,read you post and followed it with great interest.As for how to approch your partners with the oil changeing maybe you could step forward and accept engine mantance as your added commitment to the boat and partnership. This way you can change the oil and not use that "running drain" method. That is the first I have ever heard of it and it sound like a engine failure waiting to happen.Another idea might be to talk with a "Yanmar" authorized mehanic and get his method of oil draining. Also read the engine manual and Yanmar factory method.I have a small electric oil pump and like that the best.All of the other idea posted are good and all have the common theme of the engine oil being drained with the engine shut down. I would suggest that the odds on using your partners method are they are the only ones doing it that way !
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Pete Shaw
Oil change~ wow!
That has to be a first! Never heard of doing it that way and sure sounds risky. Why take chances on an engine seizing up?? I use a 12 volt pump with a tube inserted into the dipstick hole. Works for me.Seems to get just about all the old dirty oil out and I don't worry about wrecking an engine. Pete ~H280 Eastern Sky~
That has to be a first! Never heard of doing it that way and sure sounds risky. Why take chances on an engine seizing up?? I use a 12 volt pump with a tube inserted into the dipstick hole. Works for me.Seems to get just about all the old dirty oil out and I don't worry about wrecking an engine. Pete ~H280 Eastern Sky~
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Rick Webb
Interesting Method
And it would work but for three things first the oil pump is going to wear out much sooner than it should because it is being pumped dry second I am not sure I would trust the pressure sensor to that degree they generally are not reliable and third if you do not get the oil from the bottom of the pan you are not removing the heavier deposits that contaminate your oil. The best method is to drain out the bottom if at all possible.
And it would work but for three things first the oil pump is going to wear out much sooner than it should because it is being pumped dry second I am not sure I would trust the pressure sensor to that degree they generally are not reliable and third if you do not get the oil from the bottom of the pan you are not removing the heavier deposits that contaminate your oil. The best method is to drain out the bottom if at all possible.
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Bob Todd
Yet another reason...
...to avoid partnerships. There is no job that is so simple to do that at least one lazy human being won't try to get around it. I'm just waaaaayyy too type "A" to let myself get into this type of situation. Do yourself a favor, run...LIKE THE WIND! Find a nice boat that you can afford on your own and be your own boss. A friend of mine was looking into a partnership that was going to cost him around thirty large. The other guy campaigned the boat heavily and usually went through a set of sails in one season. I asked him who pays for the sails. He said they would be splitting the cost. I asked if he was going to race and he said he wasn't. I questioned why he would consider shelling out an extra five-grand a year so this guy could pound the piss out of the boat on a weekly basis. That was the end of that. Cheers, Bob
...to avoid partnerships. There is no job that is so simple to do that at least one lazy human being won't try to get around it. I'm just waaaaayyy too type "A" to let myself get into this type of situation. Do yourself a favor, run...LIKE THE WIND! Find a nice boat that you can afford on your own and be your own boss. A friend of mine was looking into a partnership that was going to cost him around thirty large. The other guy campaigned the boat heavily and usually went through a set of sails in one season. I asked him who pays for the sails. He said they would be splitting the cost. I asked if he was going to race and he said he wasn't. I questioned why he would consider shelling out an extra five-grand a year so this guy could pound the piss out of the boat on a weekly basis. That was the end of that. Cheers, Bob
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george lakes iii
P T Barnum had it right
"No one ever lost money over estimating the stupidity of the American people". This one proves it. If you don't have oil, you have metal to metal contact which causes galling of the parts, especially the valve gear. It doesn't take much metal to metal contact to get a severe wear pattern starting.
"No one ever lost money over estimating the stupidity of the American people". This one proves it. If you don't have oil, you have metal to metal contact which causes galling of the parts, especially the valve gear. It doesn't take much metal to metal contact to get a severe wear pattern starting.
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george lakes iii
Oil analysis
It may be a good idea to have an oil analysis done now to get a base line on the condition of the internals of the engine. If there is copper in the oil, you have gone through the babbit or soft slippery metal to the copper that will gall your crank journals. There will be much stress on the rod end and crank bearings due to the high compression ratio of diesel engines. They typically start on the low end of 24:1 and over 40:1, as it is the compression of the mixture that gets it hot enough to ignite, hence compression ignition engines don't have spark plugs.
It may be a good idea to have an oil analysis done now to get a base line on the condition of the internals of the engine. If there is copper in the oil, you have gone through the babbit or soft slippery metal to the copper that will gall your crank journals. There will be much stress on the rod end and crank bearings due to the high compression ratio of diesel engines. They typically start on the low end of 24:1 and over 40:1, as it is the compression of the mixture that gets it hot enough to ignite, hence compression ignition engines don't have spark plugs.
Don't agree but doubt about the damage.
Michael: I have to agree with everyone on this matter that it is NOT the way I/We would do it but doubt that it is going to 'damage' the engine. The key here is the fact that the engine is idling and shuts down once the oil pressure drops to a specified level. There is still oil in the engine, jornals and the bearings. The engine is not under any load. I would bet that it is fine. Now, I would also agree that you may want to talk to these guys and see what both of them think. Maybe some of the reasoning from this post could go toward convincing them to do it the good old way!
Michael: I have to agree with everyone on this matter that it is NOT the way I/We would do it but doubt that it is going to 'damage' the engine. The key here is the fact that the engine is idling and shuts down once the oil pressure drops to a specified level. There is still oil in the engine, jornals and the bearings. The engine is not under any load. I would bet that it is fine. Now, I would also agree that you may want to talk to these guys and see what both of them think. Maybe some of the reasoning from this post could go toward convincing them to do it the good old way!
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Rick Webb
Steve, What About the Oil Pump?
I agree that it has likely done no damage to the engine and probably will not IF the oil pressure sensor works properly. The oil pump is run dry everytime this is done not sure how hard it is to get to this and replace a real pain I bet.
I agree that it has likely done no damage to the engine and probably will not IF the oil pressure sensor works properly. The oil pump is run dry everytime this is done not sure how hard it is to get to this and replace a real pain I bet.
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David
Oil
George Lakes iii has it right and over time of course this is going to damage the engine internally!
George Lakes iii has it right and over time of course this is going to damage the engine internally!
Michael, how long....
Michael: Do you have any idea how long they have been doing this? (1yr, 5yrs etc)
Michael: Do you have any idea how long they have been doing this? (1yr, 5yrs etc)
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Michael Bell
Steve
I believe the motor has been in the boat for 6 years. And with what little use it gets, I doubt the oil has been changed more that once a year.
I believe the motor has been in the boat for 6 years. And with what little use it gets, I doubt the oil has been changed more that once a year.
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