Has anyone replaced their centerboard pennant on a 28 or 30 with Amsteel or similar cordage instead of the wire/rope combination?
O'Day centerboard pennant
- Thread starter Stawn
- Start date
I hate to see your post fall down the list so here's an opinion.
I call Amsteel and other similar cordage modern cordage. I can't keep current on the different fibers let alone the brand names.
I think some version would be very good for your pennant. There are a few properties you should shop for: One is strength. The good news is most or all are strong enough that you could downsize. Second is abrasion resistance. The pennant will probably go around one or more blocks and may even rub on the hull. You could look for something with a polyester cover too. Three it shouldn't so slippery that it can't be held in a stopper or cleat. Four it should be low stretch and low creep. Five is that it should be easy to splice to make a nice clean attachment to the centerboard.
Know the weight of your board and visit sites for New England Ropes, Sampson, Yale or chandlers like Fisheries Supply for specifics cordage properties.
I call Amsteel and other similar cordage modern cordage. I can't keep current on the different fibers let alone the brand names.
I think some version would be very good for your pennant. There are a few properties you should shop for: One is strength. The good news is most or all are strong enough that you could downsize. Second is abrasion resistance. The pennant will probably go around one or more blocks and may even rub on the hull. You could look for something with a polyester cover too. Three it shouldn't so slippery that it can't be held in a stopper or cleat. Four it should be low stretch and low creep. Five is that it should be easy to splice to make a nice clean attachment to the centerboard.
Know the weight of your board and visit sites for New England Ropes, Sampson, Yale or chandlers like Fisheries Supply for specifics cordage properties.
Thanks, that's the direction I was headed. The centerboard on the 28 isn't especially heavy, so most modern cordage (like the term) would be ok. Two blocks, and there's a separate line with purchase that gets cleated. Polyester cover still a good idea for abrasion resistance.
I was hoping someone had done it, my biggest concern is jamming in the trunk. The stiff wire won't get "pushed around" if a little slack in the down position while sailing. Not sure if rope will or not. Also, the wire rope is long enough the that polyester tail it is spliced to remains inside the tube that feeds from the deck to the trunk, so no abrasion there.
I didn't answer originally because my experience was on on a smaller boat, but here goes with the caveat that I'm making some assumptions..
I suppose an advantage may be that Amsteel could be a small diameter with a small connection to the shackle; there is no need for the extra strength because the board is not weighted. I assume the main issue is the same as on smaller boats- that the profile of the shackle and line needs to be small so that it doesn't hang up on the tube or in the slot (I assume also, that was the reason for the original configuration).
When I replaced mine, Rudy sent me a length of line attached to a narrow shackle, attached via an eye splice. It replaced the original wire/rope/shackle and worked fine for the ten years I sailed it, and I see no reason to think it's failed. Personally, I'd be more concerned about the connection to the board, i.e., whether to tie the line directly to it, or use a shackle because that seems like the place where you could run into problems with the assembly fitting back into the slot without getting jammed. To that end, maybe Amsteel offers an advantage because a brummel splice is easy and not as bulky as a double braid eye splice (as if you could actually do such a splice there) whether you use a shackle or not. I preferred the shackle to avoid any chafe at the board-to-line connection.
I suppose an advantage may be that Amsteel could be a small diameter with a small connection to the shackle; there is no need for the extra strength because the board is not weighted. I assume the main issue is the same as on smaller boats- that the profile of the shackle and line needs to be small so that it doesn't hang up on the tube or in the slot (I assume also, that was the reason for the original configuration).
When I replaced mine, Rudy sent me a length of line attached to a narrow shackle, attached via an eye splice. It replaced the original wire/rope/shackle and worked fine for the ten years I sailed it, and I see no reason to think it's failed. Personally, I'd be more concerned about the connection to the board, i.e., whether to tie the line directly to it, or use a shackle because that seems like the place where you could run into problems with the assembly fitting back into the slot without getting jammed. To that end, maybe Amsteel offers an advantage because a brummel splice is easy and not as bulky as a double braid eye splice (as if you could actually do such a splice there) whether you use a shackle or not. I preferred the shackle to avoid any chafe at the board-to-line connection.
Rigging Only lists 5/32 7x19 ss wire at $1.31 /Ft. It has a breaking strength of 2,800 lbs. The safe working load would be 10 to 20% of that. So that's 280 lbs to 560 lbs. A 1/4" "Spectra-Dyneema" is $ .59/ Ft. (As per Rigging Only). I can't find the physical properties of that line on the Rigging Only website. This is the tech notes I could find. Note the price.
There are many options I have to admit it's daunting to chase down every rabbit hole. I might contact Rigging Only for advice. It may cost a bit more but you'd probably get the best choice. I would seriously consider having their technicians put a splice in with the appropriate shackle. I used to do that APS or Layline and was never disappointed. They could also put a cover on the line.
There are many options I have to admit it's daunting to chase down every rabbit hole. I might contact Rigging Only for advice. It may cost a bit more but you'd probably get the best choice. I would seriously consider having their technicians put a splice in with the appropriate shackle. I used to do that APS or Layline and was never disappointed. They could also put a cover on the line.
Thanks everyone.
I'll take a look at Layline or another rigger and just remake one with a stainless wire to rope splice.
Also, since I have never seen the shackle, or slot, I think I'll just visually inspect, measure, and photograph the setup. If it's bad I can order parts, pull the boat long enough to replace it, and be done. And if its ok I can see what I might want to do from there.
The main reason for the replacement with no wire rope is I can splice in the replacement easily, and the line that is currently above deck is weathered, although the cover is intact.
I'll take a look at Layline or another rigger and just remake one with a stainless wire to rope splice.
Also, since I have never seen the shackle, or slot, I think I'll just visually inspect, measure, and photograph the setup. If it's bad I can order parts, pull the boat long enough to replace it, and be done. And if its ok I can see what I might want to do from there.
The main reason for the replacement with no wire rope is I can splice in the replacement easily, and the line that is currently above deck is weathered, although the cover is intact.
The one I got from D&R for my O'Day 25 was not wire. I had a lot of jamming and chafing issues with a previous boat's pennant so I went straight to the source to avoid complications
Spoke to Rudy just the other day about it. He didn't have any, and surprisingly offered no alternate suggestions. Which is unusual for him. That's usually my first choice.
Went to Rudy as my first resource, he didnt have anything.
Do you happen to recall what the shackle looks like, size/shape/etc. I've read a while back that it was fairly small to avoid jamming.
Stawn......I have a 1983 O'Day 30 and have replaced the centerboard pennant twice. Once in the water when the lower loop opened up as a result of corrosion of the nicopress type material holding the loop together at the centerboat and once on land 32 years later as preventative maintenance. I purchased a new one from D&R 30+ years ago and never used it as my boat is in saltwater and I was concerned about the loop opening up again in the salt water. My last change of the pennant was in 2021 and I used New England Rope 3/8" diameter 6.6% stretch, 4,800 lb nylon braded line, West Marine part # 121475 with spliced loops at the upper and lower ends. To attach the line to the centerboard I used a Harkin Shallow Bow Shackle, Harken part # 2132, West Marine part # 5253612. The only differnce I noticed using the braded nylon is that there is a little spring in the line when lifting the centerboard that was not there in using the braded nylon & stainless steel line. Attached are some pictures.
Attachments
Thanks, that's what I thought I'd do. Rudy did say, and I've heard other places as well, that the setup on the 30 is similar to mine. There weren't a lot of 28's with a centerboard.
Stawn....I found that dropping a light line down the pennant tub from the top and using it to pull the 3/8" pennant up from the bottom of the tube to the cabin top was the best way to get the line installed in the tube. In setting up the pennant make sure your careful in measuring where to splice in the two loops on the line. On my boat there is turning block mounted on the cabin top where the direction of the pennant changes 90 degrees from running stern to bow to running starboard to port to the pully at the top of the pennant tube. You have to make sure that when the centerboard is in its lowered position that the upper loop has not reached the turning block on the cabin top when the line turns 90 degrees toward the centerboard pennant tube. Good luck.
It was seven or eight years ago but I believe the one on my 25 was somewhat long with light guage metal. The line was your typical braided line like Sta-set. My centerboard weighed around 50-60lbs. Its a pretty light load on the line.