O'Day 28 Keel Deflection

[shemandr]

In pic 0420 (The last one) it looks like a piece of metal. The sharp edges would be hard to create using fiberglass - maybe it could be laid up and cut. I don't know. However the other pics depict a keel that could be encapsulated. That is they show rounded contours looking much like my Ranger 29 keel - which was encapsulated.
At any rate the the junction of the keel to the hull appears to be sound and in good condition.
I have posted before that when my new to me Mark 25 keelboat was first hauled, I pushed on the keel and it rocked back and forth. I was shocked. The yard worker who saw that commented that the rocking wasn't as bad as many of the other keelboats in the yard. I freaked out and paid thousands of dollars to have the boat repaired as described in post # 4. Subsequently the boat oil canned when driven hard to weather in waves (Little Peconic Bay). I can't say if it did before the repair since I bought it at the end of the season and didn't sail it that way.
What I am suggesting is that maybe this isn't as big of a problem as the OP assumes. He does need a surveyor to look at it (In the $ling).

 

[terry_buda]

In pic 0420 (The last one) it looks like a piece of metal. The sharp edges would be hard to create using fiberglass - maybe it could be laid up and cut. I don't know. However the other pics depict a keel that could be encapsulated. That is they show rounded contours looking much like my Ranger 29 keel - which was encapsulated.
At any rate the the junction of the keel to the hull appears to be sound and in good condition.
I have posted before that when my new to me Mark 25 keelboat was first hauled, I pushed on the keel and it rocked back and forth. I was shocked. The yard worker who saw that commented that the rocking wasn't as bad as many of the other keelboats in the yard. I freaked out and paid thousands of dollars to have the boat repaired as described in post # 4. Subsequently the boat oil canned when driven hard to weather in waves (Little Peconic Bay). I can't say if it did before the repair since I bought it at the end of the season and didn't sail it that way.
What I am suggesting is that maybe this isn't as big of a problem as the OP assumes. He does need a surveyor to look at it (In the $ling).

Thanks for responding Andrew! I haven't felt any abnormal movement in the hull while in motion, but that may be simply for not knowing to focus on it. It didn't occur to me that there might be something to look for when we're moving. While I'm still in 'Oh No!' mode, it's nice to see your optimism.

 

[Hollyberry]

One other possibility (and not a good one) is that somebody buried the keel bolts in some fiberglass slop - the 'floor' of the keel sump looks pretty rough, like it was roughly troweled in. However an encapsulated keel would likely have had some similar filler added above the ballast....
It would be great to find a 'same year' sistership for comparison...

 

[terry_buda]

One other possibility (and not a good one) is that somebody buried the keel bolts in some fiberglass slop - the 'floor' of the keel sump looks pretty rough, like it was roughly troweled in. However an encapsulated keel would likely have had some similar filler added above the ballast....
It would be great to find a 'same year' sistership for comparison...

Thank you for responding! New considerations and fresh thoughts are another great reason why I am asking for help on SOF.

 

[Apex]

I have a 1985 and it is a bolted keel.

I had a 1979 and it is encapsulated. @terry_buda what year? nvm: YOU HAVE ENCAPSULATED KEEL. My bilge looked the same, so factory original. You should also be able to look at the deflection and determine WHERE it is moving. Check the bilge stringers for delam or detachment. Look at the crack in the top of 0415 picture carefully. The outside looks great to my eye. The mast step also bridges the bilge, look there for more cracks. Any movement in the fixed keel signals issues. G/L

 

[Tally Ho]

If it wasn’t for the lack of keel bolts, I would say that you don’t have an encapsulated keel. But with no visible keel bolts, it makes me wonder.

I searched the inter webs and found some photos of another 1979 O’Day 28, which look similar to the OP’s photos.



then I found this brochure on IHeartodays.com

http://www.iheartodays.com/files/model_oday_28_brochure_6_2444w_3148h.jpg

It calls out a lead keel attached with SST bolts…

I am having a hard time confirming one or the other ;-(


Greg

 

[dmax]

Greg, I think they switched to an attached lead keel in the early 80's, prior to that is was encapsulated. The brochure has a 1984 copyright.

 

[Hollyberry]

Safe to say, then, as a '78 model he's looking at an encapsulated keel. The smooth keel surface with no sign of a joint (after all this time) would bear that out along with the recent (excellent) research by others...

That does, though, make the 'wiggle' more of a mystery.... Presuming the boat yard guy had it right....

 

[Tally Ho]

Greg, I think they switched to an attached lead keel in the early 80's, prior to that is was encapsulated. The brochure has a 1984 copyright.

Got it…that makes sense.


Greg

 

[Davidasailor26]

Presuming the boat yard guy had it right....

One has to wonder - how does a several thousand pound keel stay held on by the encapsulating fiberglass if it’s wiggling 4”. Not saying it can’t happen; I just can’t picture the physics.

 

[terry_buda]

In pic 0420 (The last one) it looks like a piece of metal. The sharp edges would be hard to create using fiberglass - maybe it could be laid up and cut. I don't know. However the other pics depict a keel that could be encapsulated. That is they show rounded contours looking much like my Ranger 29 keel - which was encapsulated.
At any rate the the junction of the keel to the hull appears to be sound and in good condition.
I have posted before that when my new to me Mark 25 keelboat was first hauled, I pushed on the keel and it rocked back and forth. I was shocked. The yard worker who saw that commented that the rocking wasn't as bad as many of the other keelboats in the yard. I freaked out and paid thousands of dollars to have the boat repaired as described in post # 4. Subsequently the boat oil canned when driven hard to weather in waves (Little Peconic Bay). I can't say if it did before the repair since I bought it at the end of the season and didn't sail it that way.
What I am suggesting is that maybe this isn't as big of a problem as the OP assumes. He does need a surveyor to look at it (In the $ling).

Your term "oil canned" sounds interesting... My marina guy (Jamieson at Pier 7 Bay City) just called me and added some information about what they observed. He said that they estimated that the keel could move between 2 and 4 inches in each direction (maybe 6-8 inches total) when pushed from the bottom while on the slings. He said it seemed to flex the hull vs. opening a seam crack. He also said that viewed from the outside the hull looks generally good, sound, and well maintained, and they did not see any cracks or seams. My normally dry bilge supports this statement.

 

[terry_buda]

Got it…that makes sense.


Greg

Hi Greg! Thanks for responding and taking an interest in my problem! I really hope the discussion gets me to a solution.

Take care,
-Terry

 

[dmax]

Interesting, I wonder if other O'Day 28's with encapsulated keels do the same.

 

[terry_buda]

One has to wonder - how does a several thousand pound keel stay held on by the encapsulating fiberglass if it’s wiggling 4”. Not saying it can’t happen; I just can’t picture the physics.

Yes. Apparently, the encapsulated keel is still quite popular. The physics doesn't make sense to me either. I really hope an engineer pops in with some ideas on how I can stabilize it.

Thanks again for responding!
-Terry

 

[terry_buda]

I had a 1979 and it is encapsulated. @terry_buda what year? nvm: YOU HAVE ENCAPSULATED KEEL. My bilge looked the same, so factory original. You should also be able to look at the deflection and determine WHERE it is moving. Check the bilge stringers for delam or detachment. Look at the crack in the top of 0415 picture carefully. The outside looks great to my eye. The mast step also bridges the bilge, look there for more cracks. Any movement in the fixed keel signals issues. G/L

Hi Apex! Thank you very much for this!! I was so busy looking for bolts and for cracks on the outer hull that I didn't notice the crack on 0415. That is definitely worth a second trip and further exploration.
I'll try to get some additional information about this and post updates.

 

[Apex]

Interesting, I wonder if other O'Day 28's with encapsulated keels do the same.

not normally

 

[terry_buda]

Mine is definitely an encapsulated keel. I am still hoping to hear back from someone with a pre-1980 vintage O'Day 28-class hull who may have dealt with this problem. Any details about whether a solution was found, who did the work and specific details would be very helpful. I reached out to Rudy at DR Marine and I am waiting for him to get time to respond.

Thanks again for all who have contributed to this post. I didn't even know what terms to use. I feel like I am getting closer to creating a plan.

Best regards,
-Terry

 

[terry_buda]

Follow up, for any other interested sailors:
I met with a master boat builder in our area (Joe Parker of Bay Boatworks). He diagnosed the problem and has made a recommendation for repair. The athwartship stringers in the bilge well need to be removed and replaced. This entails cutting the salon deck away to gain access to the area to remove the old stringers. New stringers will need to be fabricated and glassed in place to improve structure and surface support for the hull in the keel area. The salon deck will get put back in place, hopefully with acceptable seams and signs of repair. There are vertical tabs under the deck running fore and aft that were glassed in from the bilge to the deck bottom. These have torn free, probably due to the compromised stability of the keel. Before reassembly, I will replace the fore and aft supports and reaffix them to the deck to hopefully add a bit more stiffening.

Joe said it would be $6-10k to have the work done. He offered to consult me (fee-based) to perform the work properly. I can likely do everything myself, for a fraction of the cost.

I started today.

Thanks, everyone for your contributions!!

Best regards

 

[Tally Ho]

Follow up, for any other interested sailors:
I met with a master boat builder in our area (Joe Parker of Bay Boatworks). He diagnosed the problem and has made a recommendation for repair. The athwartship stringers in the bilge well need to be removed and replaced. This entails cutting the salon deck away to gain access to the area to remove the old stringers. New stringers will need to be fabricated and glassed in place to improve structure and surface support for the hull in the keel area. The salon deck will get put back in place, hopefully with acceptable seams and signs of repair. There are vertical tabs under the deck running fore and aft that were glassed in from the bilge to the deck bottom. These have torn free, probably due to the compromised stability of the keel. Before reassembly, I will replace the fore and aft supports and reaffix them to the deck to hopefully add a bit more stiffening.

Joe said it would be $6-10k to have the work done. He offered to consult me (fee-based) to perform the work properly. I can likely do everything myself, for a fraction of the cost.

I started today.

Thanks, everyone for your contributions!!

Best regards

Interesting!

Good luck and take photos. Keep us posted on your progress!

Greg

 

[terry_buda]

Interesting!

Good luck and take photos. Keep us posted on your progress!

Greg

Will do! Thanks Greg.