O'Day 28 Keel Deflection

[terry_buda]

We pulled our 1978 O'Day 28 out of the water for winter and while it was on the sling, the operator noticed that my keel moves about 4 inches laterally. I'm trying to find out how it is mounted. We have the 2500 lb lead deep profile fixed keel. There are no obvious cracks in the hull or bilge leaks. We sail in fair gentle weather on the great lakes, freshwater only, no racing and the boat is in overall excellent operating condition, considering its 45-year age.

As a side note - we also discovered the rudder is waterlogged and I need to solve that too. For now, I drilled a hole to drain the water so it doesn't freeze and break the casing this year.

I am interested in comments from anyone who has experienced these issues, what needs to be done, and any ideas to fix it. I especially need help understanding how the keel is mounted and if bolts can be tightened to solve the problem.

Please post photos or resources if you can. We're seeking anything that can be done to save our good friend Cracker Jack.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

[Davidasailor26]

There are reports of O’Day keel stub issues but those are generally with the later models after the various O’Day ownership changes. In those cases too little glass was used in some hulls, leading to loose keels and in some cases failure of the sump.

Interesting that there would be so much play without any leaks. I know with the early/mid-80s models the construction was pretty simple - the keel sump was laid up with fiberglass. The “bolts” are really J shaped studs set in the keel that come up through the sump where the nuts fit on them. There’s probably sealant like 5200 also sealing the keel to the stub.

Hard to really diagnose what’s going on from afar. It could be just loose nuts, or it could be more significant structural issues. It might take closer inspection by a surveyor to really figure out what needs to be done.

 

[terry_buda]

There are reports of O’Day keel stub issues but those are generally with the later models after the various O’Day ownership changes. In those cases too little glass was used in some hulls, leading to loose keels and in some cases failure of the sump.

Interesting that there would be so much play without any leaks. I know with the early/mid-80s models the construction was pretty simple - the keel sump was laid up with fiberglass. The “bolts” are really J shaped studs set in the keel that come up through the sump where the nuts fit on them. There’s probably sealant like 5200 also sealing the keel to the stub.

Hard to really diagnose what’s going on from afar. It could be just loose nuts, or it could be more significant structural issues. It might take closer inspection by a surveyor to really figure out what needs to be done.

Thank you for responding and I agree about diagnosing from afar. My marina guy said he is so short-handed he is scheduling more than 20 months out now. I'm hoping to tap into something I can work with here on the forum.

Best regards!

 

[shemandr]

I had a similar problem with my Mark 25 keelboat. It was not the keel bolts. Ultimately, the boatyard opened the cabin sole and laminated layers of plywood over the hull with glass to strengthen the hull. I don't think that boat had a stub but I don't remember. I probably have some pictures which I'll look for.

 

[terry_buda]

I had a similar problem with my Mark 25 keelboat. It was not the keel bolts. Ultimately, the boatyard opened the cabin sole and laminated layers of plywood over the hull with glass to strengthen the hull. I don't think that boat had a stub but I don't remember. I probably have some pictures which I'll look for.

Many thanks for responding and wish you and your fellow Floridians well. I look forward to any photos. At this point, I can't find anything that describes how my keel is attached.

 

[Tally Ho]

Post some photos of the keel joint, keel bolts, and the bilge when you get a chance.

4” of play sure seems like a lot, and you should see something moving in the keel joint.


Greg

 

[dmax]

Many thanks for responding and wish you and your fellow Floridians well. I look forward to any photos. At this point, I can't find anything that describes how my keel is attached.

The keel shouldn't have any perceptible movement at all so 4" is signifcant. The keel bolts are likely no longer doing their job, either because the nuts are loose or they are corroded. Here is an excellent article on an extreme case of bolt corrosion and how the owner fixed it - it clearly shows how your keel is attached. Your era O'Day should have a well built keel sump so most likely not a fiberglass issue: Keel Bolts

 

[Richard19068]

I'm pretty sure O'Day 28's of that era had encapsulated keels and therefore no keel bolts. Do an internet search on "O'day 28 keel bolts" and you will get some discussions about this. Can you see any bolts when you look in the bilge?

 

[dmax]

Looks like it is an encapuslated keel: 28 Oday Keel Construction
In that case, 4" of movement is even scarier.

 

[Tally Ho]

This doesn’t look like an encapsulated keel to me…



Maybe the OP has a centerboard version, and the board is moving 4“ laterally….that would make a whole lot more sense.

Still waiting for some photos…that would tell us a lot. Until then, we are just speculating.

Greg

 

[dmax]

Says they have a fixed keel: "We have the 2500 lb lead deep profile fixed keel. "

 

[Tally Ho]

Says they have a fixed keel: "We have the 2500 lb lead deep profile fixed keel. "

Missed it…thanks.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I don’t think the O’Day 28 was an encapsulated keel. I know by the early-80’s it was bolted on, and I doubt they changed that from encapsulated in the few years before that.

It might be worth a call to Rudy at D&R Marine. Rudy was involved in O’Day production (possibly as a production manager if I remember right). He could probably Give some ideas on the construction.
About D R Marine

 

[Richard19068]

I don’t think the O’Day 28 was an encapsulated keel. I know by the early-80’s it was bolted on, and I doubt they changed that from encapsulated in the few years before that.

It might be worth a call to Rudy at D&R Marine. Rudy was involved in O’Day production (possibly as a production manager if I remember right). He could probably Give some ideas on the construction.
About D R Marine

I think they switched from encapsulated to bolt on keels in the early 80's, Anyway, the OP should be able to tell by looking at the hull and in the bilge. D&R is certainly a good source but I always have a hard time getting in touch with Rudy.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

I have a 1985 and it is a bolted keel.

 

[terry_buda]

This doesn’t look like an encapsulated keel to me…

View attachment 210334

Maybe the OP has a centerboard version, and the board is moving 4“ laterally….that would make a whole lot more sense.

Still waiting for some photos…that would tell us a lot. Until then, we are just speculating.

Greg

Hi Greg,
Thanks for asking me to get some pictures! It was a beautiful day to see fall colors, so I drove up just to get some pictures for your post. If the attached photos are not enough, I'll go get some better ones of anything you suggest. We're stored indoors, but it's an hour's drive one-way.

I tried to find keel bolts, but there are none visible. A nice fellow with a 33' boat next to me let me take a look at how his keel is mounted. With 12 large bolts and a lot of structure, I could clearly see mine is nothing like his.

While there today, I looked very closely for stress cracks and signs of a hull breach, and I tap-tested for hollow sounds. Aside from a few touch-up paint spots, there is nothing notable. The bilge stays dry when we're in the water and I rarely have to pump bilge water out.

I'm going to talk to my marina guy to get a better definition of what they observed. I was in too much shock to ask whether it was it 4" of total movement, or was it 4" in each direction. I also need to ask how hard they had to push to make it move. It's not on the sling now, so I can't easily repeat the test they did.

 

[terry_buda]

I'm pretty sure O'Day 28's of that era had encapsulated keels and therefore no keel bolts. Do an internet search on "O'day 28 keel bolts" and you will get some discussions about this. Can you see any bolts when you look in the bilge?

Hi Richard!
Thank you for responding. I just uploaded photos for Greg. I can get more if you recommend another angle.

I don't see any bolts at all. Unless I don't know what I'm looking for - I searched very closely - there are none. I can't imagine supporting a 2500lb piece of lead with nothing but fiberglass, so I really hope I am just missing something.

 

[terry_buda]

Says they have a fixed keel: "We have the 2500 lb lead deep profile fixed keel. "

Yes, we have the deep version of the fixed fin 2500lb lead keel.

 

[terry_buda]

I don’t think the O’Day 28 was an encapsulated keel. I know by the early-80’s it was bolted on, and I doubt they changed that from encapsulated in the few years before that.

It might be worth a call to Rudy at D&R Marine. Rudy was involved in O’Day production (possibly as a production manager if I remember right). He could probably Give some ideas on the construction.
About D R Marine
[/QUOTE
Thanks for recommending Rudy! I need to contact him to order windows and will ask about this when I talk to him.

 

[terry_buda]

I'm pretty sure O'Day 28's of that era had encapsulated keels and therefore no keel bolts. Do an internet search on "O'day 28 keel bolts" and you will get some discussions about this. Can you see any bolts when you look in the bilge?

Thanks Richard! I really appreciated your post because "Encapsulated Keel" is a new term to me. I don't see any bolts at all, and I am fairly sure that Cracker Jack has an encapsulated keel. My web searches didn't return any useful information until I added 'encapsulated' to the words. Still looking for something that helps me figure out what to do about excessive deflection, but at least I now have a direction.