Oday 25 tiller too small?

[Joe5893]

Hello all,

I was out sailing last night and when the breeze came up, I started getting pretty good weather helm and had several "round ups" before I could get the sails adjusted to settle the boat down. During the round ups I was really pulling on the tiller to control the boat, and the tiller was letting me know it! My tiller seems kind of small in thickness compared to the other Oday 25's and 23's at my marina.

My question is, if I get a tiller that is thicker, and theoretically stronger, do I risk breaking the rudder instead of breaking the tiller? I don't want to break either, but I think having a stronger tiller might help control the boat when the wind really starts to blow. Thoughts anyone?

Joe

 

[SchwarckT]

Had the same situation in my O-Day 22. Bought a rudder from IdaSailor and cured it completely.

 

[HukilauMike]

The short answer is no; neither the tiller or the rudder will break due to weather helm effects, no matter what tiller you use. As you have seen, the boat has weather helm designed into it; you can affect this by sail and centerboard trim, but even at its most "balanced", the Oday daysailers have weather helm. It is a purposeful design feature in smaller boats that acts a safety valve when things get too heavy.

A longer tiller will only give you more leverage, making it easier for you to resist the weather helm you are feeling; it will not change the sailing characteristics of the hull or rudder itself. I suppose that if you installed a really narrow, really long tiller, it theoretically could break due to pressure from the weather helm, but that seems pretty far fetched to me. Conversely, if you installed a sold steel tiller, it wouldn't make any difference; the boat would round up long before there was enough pressure on it to break the tiller or the rudder.

If you are thinking of replacing your tiller, I highly recommend the H&L model 112F; it is available from a number of places, including the store on this site, Defender and West Marine. The 112F is a curved model. I went from a straight oak stick on my Oday 23 to the 112F, and the difference in comfort was amazing. The end of the tiller is now at a comfortable height for long term steering, and because of the curve, it no longer hits anyone's knees in the cockpit. Check prices carefully: the last time I looked, the Defender price was at least 30% less than anyone else's.

 

[Joe11688]

Try raking the mast forward a little.

 

[emergpa1]

Had the same situation in my O-Day 22. Bought a rudder from IdaSailor and cured it completely.

Same here. Love the rudder, but the reason you were pulling your tiller so hard was the sail trim was poor, or you were over-canvassed, or both.

I found this book helpful.

Keith.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

weather helm in O'Day 25

The short answer is no; neither the tiller or the rudder will break due to weather helm effects, no matter what tiller you use. As you have seen, the boat has weather helm designed into it; you can affect this by sail and centerboard trim, but even at its most "balanced", the Ody daysailers have weather helm. It is a purposeful design feature in smaller boats that acts a safety valve when things get too heavy.

A longer tiller will only give you more leverage, making it easier for you to resist the weather helm you are feeling; it will not change the sailing characteristics of the hull or rudder itself. I suppose that if you installed a really narrow, really long tiller, it theoretically could break due to pressure from the weather helm, but that seems pretty far fetched to me. Conversely, if you installed a sold steel tiller, it wouldn't make any difference; the boat would round up long before there was enough pressure on it to break the tiller or the rudder.

If you are thinking of replacing your tiller, I highly recommend the H&L model 112F; it is available from a number of places, including the store on this site, Defender and West Marine. The 112F is a curved model. I went from a straight oak stick on my Oday 23 to the 112F, and the difference in comfort was amazing. The end of the tiller is now at a comfortable height for long term steering, and because of the curve, it no longer hits anyone's knees in the cockpit. Check prices carefully: the last time I looked, the Defender price was at least 30% less than anyone else's.

The designers may have wanted some weather helm in the O'Day 25 as stated above. "but even at its most "balanced", the Oday daysailers have weather helm. It is a purposeful design feature in smaller boats that acts a safety valve when things get too heavy."

However truth be told not as much as developed in later models of the 25. That is why they first changed from a straight rudder to a balanced rudder. Go to Mystic Seaport Ships Library and see the design for the balanced rudder on file to help correct for weather helm.

Then there was the issue of grounding of the rudder first. Both of these issues were dealt with in the design of the O'Day 26 which was really an updated design of the 25 according to Rudy at D&R. And a look at the boats will confirm the veracity of the comment.

So, those with later designs of similar boats have some of these issues resolved. Understand that George O'Day knew what the boats were supposed to do and worked on correcting issues.

Just get an O'Day 26 and you will solve the problem. Ask owners of the 26 if they have that much weather helm? They do not. The 26 is fairly balanced.

This does not make your boat unsafe or unusable. Just you have to develop the skills to deal with issues...

Ed K

 

[ebsail]

You can also reduce weather helm a bit by pulling the centerboar up a bit so the tip of the board is pulled aft. But in any case, if you heel too much, the rudder comes patially out of the water and you will round up.