My friend has a 1979 ODay 25 (I'm pretty sure that's the model) with a swing keel. Apparently she rarely uses it because she is quite scared of tipping it over. I went sailing with her recently and she paniced as the boat would lean over as we got it moving. I'm not an expert sailor by any means but I have been sailing smaller boats (up to about a 20ft) since I was a kid. Any advice for helping her enjoy actually sailing her boat? She wants to sail it but I guess she thinks it will tip over easily. Any resources that cover what angle the boat would have to reach to actually capsize? Thanks for the help..
ODay 25 capsizing
- Thread starter ERJ_Pilot
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I've found through experience that you can tell them until you are blue in the face that it won't capsize and it won't do a bit of good.. you got to show them.. take it out, heel it over gently at first so they become used to the angle, and then gradually give it some more. Show them how simple it is to let out on the main sheet to bring it right back up if it heels too much, or how to point it to bring it back down. They might be a bit timid at first and give you a few screams or jabs, but eventually they will get used to the feel of sailing and realize that it is perfectly normal and safe.
Cheers,
Brad
Cheers,
Brad
It sounds like one of the womens only sailing clinics would help her work out some of here fears
FWIW nothing does my wife much good as she just has a fear of the water in general and picks and choses her sailing days carefuly
FWIW nothing does my wife much good as she just has a fear of the water in general and picks and choses her sailing days carefuly
It is not that hard to capsize some of the smaller swing keel boats. And make sure that the keel is pinned or it may come crashing through the cabin and cause some significant damage.
My wife had a problem with heeling for about 10 minutes. Then she took the tiller and that was that. She is afraid of buying a larger boat that will not heel as much.
Why does your friend like sailing so much if she is afraid of heeling? At what point did she actually say this is a lot of fun but was not heeled over?
My wife had a problem with heeling for about 10 minutes. Then she took the tiller and that was that. She is afraid of buying a larger boat that will not heel as much.
Why does your friend like sailing so much if she is afraid of heeling? At what point did she actually say this is a lot of fun but was not heeled over?
Suggest that she take a women's ONLY lesson ON HER OWN BOAT.
If that doesn't do it, nothing will.
If that doesn't do it, nothing will.
I'm not sure why she likes it honestly. Maybe she just likes the idea of owning the boat, but it is her 2nd sailboat, the other one I haven't seen but I know it's a little boat. She's never capsized the small one so maybe it's just a fear of flipping something bigger and more expensive.
How much of a lean are we talking about for this type of boat before it goes over? It only sails on the lake or maybe Galveston Bay, is it really that easy to capsize as was mentioned?
How much of a lean are we talking about for this type of boat before it goes over? It only sails on the lake or maybe Galveston Bay, is it really that easy to capsize as was mentioned?
Show her how safe it is by taking it out in windier conditions and having it heel... Once she realizes that the boat is designed to do that, and that is a normal part of sailing, I think she'll relax a bit... if she can't....have her sell the boat... and get a multihull.
One of the reasons I got a multihull is the fact that it doesn't heel much. One of my best friends has CP and wouldn't be able to go sailing on a monohull... but deals with the trimaran just fine.
One of the reasons I got a multihull is the fact that it doesn't heel much. One of my best friends has CP and wouldn't be able to go sailing on a monohull... but deals with the trimaran just fine.
Really? I'm sure we'd see more news about capsizing if it was "not that hard" Although I'm sure that in the right conditions it might be more inclined to capsize, I doubt many small swing keel boats would be sailing if it were relatively easy to sink one.
I had a Venture 22 with a swing keel years (and years!) ago, and as long as the keel is locked down, it's "self-righting" which means in answer to your question: there is NO angle after which she will "go over" - She can go 90 degrees over and still right herself. I have been close to that actually in the Venture - definitely with the boom in the water, probably considered a "knockdown" by most, and she came back up.
I like Brad's idea - take her out and SHOW her that the boat will always come back up.
druid
I like Brad's idea - take her out and SHOW her that the boat will always come back up.
druid
I agree with druid, in the context of my earlier post. The thing to remember and to try to explain is that as the boat heels, more air is spilled off the sails and the boat will come back up. One doubts that she'd be sailing in conditions where "the waves'll be what gets ya!"
We sailed our C22 on windy SF Bay with only a 110 jib, non-furling, smallest and ONLY jib we had, with a reefed main. Boat never got too hard to handle. Never capsized. Swing keel.
We sailed our C22 on windy SF Bay with only a 110 jib, non-furling, smallest and ONLY jib we had, with a reefed main. Boat never got too hard to handle. Never capsized. Swing keel.
Wind can't capsize the Oday 25
38% of the displacement of the centerboard Oday 25 model is lead ballast. The worst that the wind can do is to knock the boat flat (down to 90 degrees.) And the lead in the keel will always bring her back up when the wind eases. Even a knockdown is a rare event. In listening to experienced sailors, less than one in 30 years of summer sailing is my estimated frequency.
The Oday is a ballasted keel boat, even if it has a centerboard. The only way it can capsize is if a wave 9 feet high or more hits it broadside. And it takes hours for the waves to build up to that height - plenty of time to get off the water!
Capsizing is common in unballasted boats, where the only ballast is the weight of the crew on the rail. For such a boat, (a Sunfish, for instance) the first drill is to tip it over, and practice righting it, and getting back in it.
I think sharing this fact is some help, but I do agree with the suggestions of lessons, and more time sailing with a trusted captain to reduce the real fear of heeling.
Falling out of the cockpit in the rare event of a 90 degree knockdown is a reasonable fear, and a good reason for PFD's and (when called for by the weather possibilities) harness/tethers.
38% of the displacement of the centerboard Oday 25 model is lead ballast. The worst that the wind can do is to knock the boat flat (down to 90 degrees.) And the lead in the keel will always bring her back up when the wind eases. Even a knockdown is a rare event. In listening to experienced sailors, less than one in 30 years of summer sailing is my estimated frequency.
The Oday is a ballasted keel boat, even if it has a centerboard. The only way it can capsize is if a wave 9 feet high or more hits it broadside. And it takes hours for the waves to build up to that height - plenty of time to get off the water!
Capsizing is common in unballasted boats, where the only ballast is the weight of the crew on the rail. For such a boat, (a Sunfish, for instance) the first drill is to tip it over, and practice righting it, and getting back in it.
I think sharing this fact is some help, but I do agree with the suggestions of lessons, and more time sailing with a trusted captain to reduce the real fear of heeling.
Falling out of the cockpit in the rare event of a 90 degree knockdown is a reasonable fear, and a good reason for PFD's and (when called for by the weather possibilities) harness/tethers.
It will round up first...
I have an Oday 23, which is built the same way with the ballast and swing keel, just shorter. These boats are designed to "round up" if blown over too far, that is, the rudder comes out of the water enough, the boat simply turns into the wind and luffs up spilling all the air out of the sails.
Being a lake sailor, I've "rounded up lots of times on me in heavy air (20 plus) but I've not had large waves to deal with. However, knowing how steady an O'day is, I believe it would take a huge beam sea during a round up to roll the boat, but even then gravity being what it is, it would still right it's self.
I have an Oday 23, which is built the same way with the ballast and swing keel, just shorter. These boats are designed to "round up" if blown over too far, that is, the rudder comes out of the water enough, the boat simply turns into the wind and luffs up spilling all the air out of the sails.
Being a lake sailor, I've "rounded up lots of times on me in heavy air (20 plus) but I've not had large waves to deal with. However, knowing how steady an O'day is, I believe it would take a huge beam sea during a round up to roll the boat, but even then gravity being what it is, it would still right it's self.
"Some". I know of quite a few unbalasted swing keels that will capsize without proper sail trim. And some of those are over 20'. Maybe not a 25' balasted Oday.
Who said anything about sinking?
Well
I have been in some sudden violent weather on lake george ny THAT I THINK could keep a boat over and turtle it
And waterspouts have been all the rage on Long Island the past few seasons
I have been in some sudden violent weather on lake george ny THAT I THINK could keep a boat over and turtle it
And waterspouts have been all the rage on Long Island the past few seasons
You can sail an O'Day 25 without putting the centerboard down and it will just be poor at pointing. She may get it knocked down with a big blast of wind or really big waves but it is not going over on a regular day out unless something is seriously wrong with the boat. It takes serious effort to get the rail in the water on an O'Day 25. They are a wide boat and tend to surf the surface of the water when heeled over. It has to be some good wind to bury the rail. She is on a real easy boat to sail upwind and very forgiving.
I think she may need to be with a school, probably more than a day class, if she wants to sail.
I think she may need to be with a school, probably more than a day class, if she wants to sail.
Check out Macgregor's web site and click the safety link. They show a Mac 26 over 90 degrees with the mast in the water and it rights itself. Also, there is a youtube video of a manufacturer using a water barrel to simulate a knock down and the boat rights itself. Other than that, experience is all that will help. After 15 years, my wife still complains if the boat heels more than about 10 degrees.
I have been sailing swing keel sailboats since the 1970's and been out in 40+ knots of wind with 30' seas and NEVER capsized. My boats were Windrose 24', 22' Venture/ MacGregor, 25' MacGregor, 30' Catalina, as well as several other small sailboats and I would say that you cannot turtle any of them unless your keel drops off. Just pin the keel in the down position and enjoy it. Many of the sails were to the offshore Islands, Catalina, Anacapa, Santa Cruz, Santa Barbara Islands. If you are interested I could send you the published story about the storm sail from Cataslina. My suggestion is that you buy a 70% to 90% jib and install at least one mainsail reef of 30% or more and just enjoy sailing
novelman
novelman
The O'Day 25 CB is ballasted with lead and has a swing centerboard not a swing keel and the centerboard cannot be pinned in the down position like many swing keels.
My suggestion is to have someone that can sail the boat well in extreme conditions take her out so that she can feel the limits of the boat. The O'Day 25 is most likely to lay down to the point the rudder is ineffective and then round up into the wind when over powered by the wind.
The O'Day 25 has a very firm bite once it gets to a heel of 15 degrees or so. What most people have a problem with is when a gust comes, the boat lays over quickly. Instead of letting it bite and hold a steady heel, they let the main out and the boat rolls back to vertical only to be layed over again making the boat seem tender.
I think once she feels the limits of the boat she will love it.
r.w.landau
My suggestion is to have someone that can sail the boat well in extreme conditions take her out so that she can feel the limits of the boat. The O'Day 25 is most likely to lay down to the point the rudder is ineffective and then round up into the wind when over powered by the wind.
The O'Day 25 has a very firm bite once it gets to a heel of 15 degrees or so. What most people have a problem with is when a gust comes, the boat lays over quickly. Instead of letting it bite and hold a steady heel, they let the main out and the boat rolls back to vertical only to be layed over again making the boat seem tender.
I think once she feels the limits of the boat she will love it.
r.w.landau
I reckon rw has it here. I know my boat gets to a certain point and then it's on rails. The way I got over the fear of heeling was to have the tiller in one hand and the mainsheet traveller line in the other - and just ease the line as it heels. It's amazing the control that you have.
The other way is always make sure she sails with plenty of Champagne!
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Have her watch a video on youtube called hunter23.5 capsize. 3 guys do their best to capsize but the boat comes right back up as soon as they let go of the tiller.
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