We are interested in our "first" bigger sailboat. I have narrowed the choices down even further to a 1974 Paceship 23, or I have the opportunity to purchase a few different years Oday 23. Our plans are to trailer sail on weekends to various lakes in Minnesota/Wisconsin camping on the boat with two adults, and two 12 year old kids. We like the Paceship due to it's price, but I keep looking back at the Oday's just because I like the lines of the Oday. I have not seen the inside of the 23 yet, nor the 240 that is on the same dealer lot. I'm assuming the Oday 25 is a little too big for comfortably sailing every weekend,pulling behind a 01 Chevy Tahoe. From what I've read, the Oday 23 is a great boat for what I am planning, I was told the 240 has an enclosed head. Any input???
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Oday 23
I have a '79 Oday 23, and she is a great boat. I think it will be cramped below with four people sleeping aboard. There really are only two berths on the 23 that are adult sized: the v-berth can sleep two in a very cozy setting, and the double in the main cabin isn't really a "double", but more like the size of a land-bound twin. The second berth in the cabin is really the width of a bench. If you can't roll over without shifting position, you will fall on the cabin sole. The head on the 23 is separate (behind a door), but is in the open in the forecabin. As to the towing, the boat is heavy. You should determine what the towing capacity of your vehicle is before you buy the 23 or any boat you intend to trailer. With an engine, mast, gear, sails, etc., the 23 weighs a good 4000 lbs. Add another few hundred for the trailer, and you are up there. If your Tahoe can't easily tow 5000 lbs., you should look for a different boat.
I have a '79 Oday 23, and she is a great boat. I think it will be cramped below with four people sleeping aboard. There really are only two berths on the 23 that are adult sized: the v-berth can sleep two in a very cozy setting, and the double in the main cabin isn't really a "double", but more like the size of a land-bound twin. The second berth in the cabin is really the width of a bench. If you can't roll over without shifting position, you will fall on the cabin sole. The head on the 23 is separate (behind a door), but is in the open in the forecabin. As to the towing, the boat is heavy. You should determine what the towing capacity of your vehicle is before you buy the 23 or any boat you intend to trailer. With an engine, mast, gear, sails, etc., the 23 weighs a good 4000 lbs. Add another few hundred for the trailer, and you are up there. If your Tahoe can't easily tow 5000 lbs., you should look for a different boat.
paceship 23 my choice
i own a 75 oday 22 and sleeping 4 people on either the paceship or the oday is gonna be tight sleeps 4 uncomfortably perhaps the children in the v birth but as far as sailing the paceship 23 is a better sailor especially with a centerboard my friend owns a paceship 23 with roller furler and centerboard and ive been trying to persuade her to sell it to me i learned on it and it is much faster in light winds
i own a 75 oday 22 and sleeping 4 people on either the paceship or the oday is gonna be tight sleeps 4 uncomfortably perhaps the children in the v birth but as far as sailing the paceship 23 is a better sailor especially with a centerboard my friend owns a paceship 23 with roller furler and centerboard and ive been trying to persuade her to sell it to me i learned on it and it is much faster in light winds
O'day23 or 24
The tradeoff between a 23 or 24 is really how you are able to tow these boats. The 23 has a shallower keel the the 24 which has a winglike keel. The 23 is a very capable sailor, a little cramped. The 24 is not as capable (I raced a 23 against a 24 many years ago and the 23 was faster on all points of sail), however the 24 with the enclosed head and better headroom below makes it a lot more liviable. The weights are not that different. You will need a double axle trailer for sure.
The tradeoff between a 23 or 24 is really how you are able to tow these boats. The 23 has a shallower keel the the 24 which has a winglike keel. The 23 is a very capable sailor, a little cramped. The 24 is not as capable (I raced a 23 against a 24 many years ago and the 23 was faster on all points of sail), however the 24 with the enclosed head and better headroom below makes it a lot more liviable. The weights are not that different. You will need a double axle trailer for sure.
23 Paceship
Furthermore... The realities of owning a older boat (such as 23'O'day and 23 paceship) is the boats will leak from the windows and deck hardware. Not offending paceship boats, I think a 30 year old boat is a big gamble unless you are handy with maintenance. Backing plates, deck hardware, even the standing rigging itself, could be source of trouble. As a sailor for 25 years and owning 5 boats, I can say that the 24 O'day would be my choice. Good Luck
Furthermore... The realities of owning a older boat (such as 23'O'day and 23 paceship) is the boats will leak from the windows and deck hardware. Not offending paceship boats, I think a 30 year old boat is a big gamble unless you are handy with maintenance. Backing plates, deck hardware, even the standing rigging itself, could be source of trouble. As a sailor for 25 years and owning 5 boats, I can say that the 24 O'day would be my choice. Good Luck
How big an issue is Head Privacy?
From my perspective, What the O'day 23 or 240 offer is over a smaller boat is some head privacy. If you are serious about trailering the boat everytime you are going to use it, I think you want to choose the smallest, lightest boat that will meet your needs. Boats increase in weight, volume and cost at an exponential rate so even a one foot difference in length will be apparent when you tow or rig. There are a number of boats offered at 22 feet. I don't think that is entirely accidental, some people wil say that 22' is the upper limit of what is practical to tow and and rig on a regular basis and that trailerable boats bigger than that are better left in the water most of the time and trailered occasionally (for a week-long family vacation, for example). I'm sure there are exceptions, especially if you include some of recent water-ballasted boats like the Hunter 240 and Santana 2023 which weigh 1000+ lbs. less on the trailer than than they do in the water. Unfortunately, although most 22 footers will have enough berths for a small family they won't have an enclosed head. The O'day 22 (the older one, not the 222) and the Bristol Caravel are exceptions but, in my opinion anyway, when you start adding a lot of "features" in a boat that size you get a "dollhouse" effect and it feels very cramped. A very crude measure of how trailerable a type of boat is to look at the ads on www.yachtworld.com (or equivalent). Check the photos of the boats for sale and see if a boat is being kept in the water or on a trailer - that will tell you something about what the previous owner thought was practical with that model.
From my perspective, What the O'day 23 or 240 offer is over a smaller boat is some head privacy. If you are serious about trailering the boat everytime you are going to use it, I think you want to choose the smallest, lightest boat that will meet your needs. Boats increase in weight, volume and cost at an exponential rate so even a one foot difference in length will be apparent when you tow or rig. There are a number of boats offered at 22 feet. I don't think that is entirely accidental, some people wil say that 22' is the upper limit of what is practical to tow and and rig on a regular basis and that trailerable boats bigger than that are better left in the water most of the time and trailered occasionally (for a week-long family vacation, for example). I'm sure there are exceptions, especially if you include some of recent water-ballasted boats like the Hunter 240 and Santana 2023 which weigh 1000+ lbs. less on the trailer than than they do in the water. Unfortunately, although most 22 footers will have enough berths for a small family they won't have an enclosed head. The O'day 22 (the older one, not the 222) and the Bristol Caravel are exceptions but, in my opinion anyway, when you start adding a lot of "features" in a boat that size you get a "dollhouse" effect and it feels very cramped. A very crude measure of how trailerable a type of boat is to look at the ads on www.yachtworld.com (or equivalent). Check the photos of the boats for sale and see if a boat is being kept in the water or on a trailer - that will tell you something about what the previous owner thought was practical with that model.
Dave K.
I agree completely about the head privacy issue. I liked a lot about the Oday 23 (keel/centerboard, large cockpit, fold away galley), but the Admiral (also known as She Who Must Be Obeyed) liked only one thing: the head is behind a door. That was truly the one feature she wanted. After sailing a Catalina 22 for a summer where the head was in the middle of the cabin, she insisted that the next boat would have an enclosed head. I happily bought the 23 and have been very happy. Even I have become appreciative of the value of a private cabin. And I know that my kids' and their friends also like that they can have privacy.
I agree completely about the head privacy issue. I liked a lot about the Oday 23 (keel/centerboard, large cockpit, fold away galley), but the Admiral (also known as She Who Must Be Obeyed) liked only one thing: the head is behind a door. That was truly the one feature she wanted. After sailing a Catalina 22 for a summer where the head was in the middle of the cabin, she insisted that the next boat would have an enclosed head. I happily bought the 23 and have been very happy. Even I have become appreciative of the value of a private cabin. And I know that my kids' and their friends also like that they can have privacy.
Trailer sailer
Pete, I own an O'Day 240. She is closer to a 25 foot boat at 24'10" I believe. She does have a real enclosed head port aft. She has 5'8" headroom under the main hatch. In my opinion, she is pushing the envelope as a trailer sailer. I would not use her for this purpose, tho I do store her on her trailer. The first owner did use her to travel. Dom!!! This post was not about how well these boats sail, yet you seem to have made it so. You seem to think that many years ago you raced the 240 and beat her on all points of sail. What a weak statement you made. Do you have any idea of the skill of the sailor? The equipment on the boat? the overall conditions that might have made you feel superior? I doubt it. Let me say that I have sailed my boat in many conditions, and have kept pace with many larger craft and passed those in my size. Happy New Year. Eric
Pete, I own an O'Day 240. She is closer to a 25 foot boat at 24'10" I believe. She does have a real enclosed head port aft. She has 5'8" headroom under the main hatch. In my opinion, she is pushing the envelope as a trailer sailer. I would not use her for this purpose, tho I do store her on her trailer. The first owner did use her to travel. Dom!!! This post was not about how well these boats sail, yet you seem to have made it so. You seem to think that many years ago you raced the 240 and beat her on all points of sail. What a weak statement you made. Do you have any idea of the skill of the sailor? The equipment on the boat? the overall conditions that might have made you feel superior? I doubt it. Let me say that I have sailed my boat in many conditions, and have kept pace with many larger craft and passed those in my size. Happy New Year. Eric
Eric's slam on Dom V
Eric, this slam on Doom, NOT IN GOOD TASTE!!!! I have read many posts in these forums and notice some people don't include a lot of detail and some people do. You could suggested in nicer manner that more detail would have been appropriate. On 2nd thought you could have said nothing and stuck to your comments on the subject at hand!!! So give the guy a break, you might even apologize!!!
Eric, this slam on Doom, NOT IN GOOD TASTE!!!! I have read many posts in these forums and notice some people don't include a lot of detail and some people do. You could suggested in nicer manner that more detail would have been appropriate. On 2nd thought you could have said nothing and stuck to your comments on the subject at hand!!! So give the guy a break, you might even apologize!!!
An O'Day 23 built after 1974 is best
According to a good source of information that I received a couple of months ago, O'Day built some of their 23s with cast iron keels. They had a lot of rust problems. The later models built after 1974 had lead keels. If you plan on getting a 23, this is a good thing to keep in mind. I also think that with the proper trailer, the 23 will be more trailerable than the O'Day 240 if you are planning on trailer sailing. The 23 has a keel centerboard, where the 240 has a wing keel. I may be wrong about this, but the 23 with the centerboard down will probably sail to windward better than the wing keel boat, because of the fact that it has more gripe than the wing keel. Of course, it goes without saying, whatever you decide on buying, you'll need to make sure that the mast has a hinged Tabernacle for easy mast raising/lowering.
According to a good source of information that I received a couple of months ago, O'Day built some of their 23s with cast iron keels. They had a lot of rust problems. The later models built after 1974 had lead keels. If you plan on getting a 23, this is a good thing to keep in mind. I also think that with the proper trailer, the 23 will be more trailerable than the O'Day 240 if you are planning on trailer sailing. The 23 has a keel centerboard, where the 240 has a wing keel. I may be wrong about this, but the 23 with the centerboard down will probably sail to windward better than the wing keel boat, because of the fact that it has more gripe than the wing keel. Of course, it goes without saying, whatever you decide on buying, you'll need to make sure that the mast has a hinged Tabernacle for easy mast raising/lowering.
Oday 23 vs 240
Hello Pete, Interesting topic and one very much worth discussing! Most of the previous threads/responses do center around very good topics, such as boat weight, cabin height, sailing characteristics, keel issues and comfort for captain & crew if overnighting. I can't speak on behalf of Paceships, however I used to own a 1972 oday 23. So my experience with her is the most I can share. She sailed very well, with the swing keel down or up, she was great! Never a doubt of safety when I had family or guests aboard. She's a heavy boat, so trailering is possible with a deck stepped mast, but a Tahoe should pull it fine. The Oday 23, like any boat of that age, will have normal issues and wear 'n age. Not to mention, issues from a manufacturing standpoint, but yes, overall, the Oday boats are very good, solid boats. I sailed my Oday 23 for three years. Mainly on weekend cruises with 2 people aboard to one time I had 7. Standing room is tight on a 23', so you will gain better headroom inside the cabin with a 240. Interior comforts should be focused on what you and your family desire most. Either boat offers something unique and different. Basically, they are both great boats. With you and your family, simply determine how you all are going to use the boat best. (ie - weekend day sails, extended cruises to different ports, etc) If you'll be sailing the lakes up in MN/WI 'n all and not doing any cruises to different ports, then maybe the 23 might be better. However, do what's best for you. I sold my Oday 23 in Sept '06 and bought an Oday 27, so if you ever cruise up this way on the Bay of Green Bay, we hope to see you! We might be putting together an fun Oday rendezvous in 2007 too. Fairs winds and calm seas to you! Good luck, post here 'n let us know what you decided on! Best Regards, Mark
Hello Pete, Interesting topic and one very much worth discussing! Most of the previous threads/responses do center around very good topics, such as boat weight, cabin height, sailing characteristics, keel issues and comfort for captain & crew if overnighting. I can't speak on behalf of Paceships, however I used to own a 1972 oday 23. So my experience with her is the most I can share. She sailed very well, with the swing keel down or up, she was great! Never a doubt of safety when I had family or guests aboard. She's a heavy boat, so trailering is possible with a deck stepped mast, but a Tahoe should pull it fine. The Oday 23, like any boat of that age, will have normal issues and wear 'n age. Not to mention, issues from a manufacturing standpoint, but yes, overall, the Oday boats are very good, solid boats. I sailed my Oday 23 for three years. Mainly on weekend cruises with 2 people aboard to one time I had 7. Standing room is tight on a 23', so you will gain better headroom inside the cabin with a 240. Interior comforts should be focused on what you and your family desire most. Either boat offers something unique and different. Basically, they are both great boats. With you and your family, simply determine how you all are going to use the boat best. (ie - weekend day sails, extended cruises to different ports, etc) If you'll be sailing the lakes up in MN/WI 'n all and not doing any cruises to different ports, then maybe the 23 might be better. However, do what's best for you. I sold my Oday 23 in Sept '06 and bought an Oday 27, so if you ever cruise up this way on the Bay of Green Bay, we hope to see you! We might be putting together an fun Oday rendezvous in 2007 too. Fairs winds and calm seas to you! Good luck, post here 'n let us know what you decided on! Best Regards, Mark
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