O'Day 23 Centerboard

HukilauMike · Oct 9, 2009

Someone else just posted about the exact same question. I don't think its really worth the effort to retrofit the centerboard pendant to a different location, but its probably doable. You should know that Oday pretty much agreed with you, and in the Mk II version of the Oday 23 (post 1977), the pendent was moved to the bridge deck in the cockpit (just in front of the companionway), where you pull it up by hand and cleat it off. Much nicer and neater.

Can you sail without the centerboard? Absolutely. It provides some righting movement, but not that much. The centerboard's primary function is to provide lift while reaching and working to windward. Without it, you can't sail quite as close to the wind, and you make more leeway, but the boat is plenty stable.

Stuck centerboards are one of the primary topics of discussion on this forum among the 22, 23 and 25 owners. You are not alone.

Joe11688 · Oct 10, 2009

sailorjack77 said:
I'm new to the O'Day and the use of centerboards. I'm used to retractable keels. I have a few questions about the 50 lb. centerboard that has a tendancy to get stuck..

First of all I can't understand why the design of the Oday 23 includes the UGLY post that is in the center of the cabin. Has anyone ever modified this and removed the blasted thing altogether?? I understand it being used as a table leg, but I rarly use the table. I'd like to rig a way to remove the post and pull the centerboard up by hand and cleat it. 50 lbs can't be too difficult.

Also - how important IS the centerboard?? I would assume that the keel would provide enough ballast to keep the boat stable - does the centerboard mainly help when sailing up wind in terms of speed or is it a stability factor?

If the centerboard causes as much trouble as it sounds.. would it be crazy to just not used it?? Or is this a ridiculous idea?

I'd appreciate any thoughts.. Thanks!!!

Jack,
Could you take some pictures of the table stanchion and the surrounding area for us and post them here? We may be able to come up with some ideas for you.
Joe

Joe11688 · Oct 12, 2009

Jack,
The only thing that would bother me about this boat is that it may be a 1973 O'Day 23 or earlier, with a cast iron keel. These keels were big problems because they would rust up and the centerboard would get stuck inside the keel slot. A friend of mine in Rhode Island bought one of these boats and was able to fix it up, but it took a lot of work. You can see some pics of this boat on his blog. Check it out.
http://baysailorbill.spaces.live.com/ If this boat is sitting on the trailer, take a strong magnet and put it up against the keel. If it's cast iron, the magnet will stick to it. If it's lead it won't stick. Also, check the VIN numbers on the upper right hand side of the outside transom. The last two numbers should be the year that the boat was built. The last letter stands for the month it was built, the letter "A" being August, B=Sept. C=Oct. and Etc. There should be a manufacturer ID code at the beginning of the numbers like XDY which stands for O'Day and the next letter should be a "T" which stands for the boat model, O'Day 23. If this boat has a cast iron keel, it's going to be a bigger issue to resolve that re-routing the centerboard pendant line, believe me. I wouldn't be too hasty on this one. As the old saying goes, "buyer beware!"
Joe

Sunbird22358 · Oct 12, 2009

The centerboards on the K/CB O'Days really provide zero effect on stability, the ballast is all in the keel itself, the CB has just enough ballast (about 15# lead flashing in the case of the 1974 23) inside to prevent it from floating. The CB is more for DIRECTIONAL stability and prevention of leeway. The K/CB boats will sail with the CB retracted (a true centerboard boat or swing-keel boat will not) but you will not be able to point as close to the wind as with the cb lowered. You may find the boat does not steer as easily with the CB retracted..... but again, she should sail that way.

I wouldn't be too quick to remove that post (pipe?) until you find a way to plug the hole that the cb pendant runs through! Picture "Old Faithful" in the middle of your cabin! Being a 1974, even if the boat is a "pop-top" model, you could possible replace the post with a conduit that runs up to the cabin top and have the cb pendant exit there to a cleat on top of the cabin. Yes, the conduit would still be there in the center of the cabin, but maybe you could use strong enough pipe to use it as a handhold? The 1973-4 pop-top models were very different from the earlier pop-tops in that only the portion of the cabin top aft of the mast raised, unlike the earlier boats' entire cabin trunk.

As far as I know, this vintage of 23 was built from 1971 to 1974, some say 1975. There were changes made during that production run (the revised pop-top was one), but the basic hull, cast-iron keel, interior layout, and rig stayed the same. The later 23 (1977-85) was the big change and the keel on that version was the O'DAY-Standard lead ballast in a fiberglass shell, molded as part of the hull. The 1971-74 and 1977-85 model O'Day 23 really only share a name..... almost no dimensions are the same.

If the CB is stuck on this 1974, it may still be well worth investing the time and effort to unstick it if the boat is otherwise in good condition and the price is right. The only caution is that no matter what you do..... you will still always have a cast-iron keel that has a bad habit of rusting and jamming the cb. A few owners have removed the fiberglass cb and substituted one made of steel plate, being thinner it is much less likely to stick. Of course..... I'm a saltwater sailer...... freshwater may yield different results, and the CB may be fine with regular use that keeps the keel slot clear of rust. I've never had a real boat with a steel or cast-iron keel (only small models) so...... All my boats have had fiberglass centerboards in fiberglass trunks.

LANCE ON CLOUD NINE · Oct 12, 2009

If you remove the table post, you will only expose a plastic tube that is bonded into the floor. It is almost as tall and just as much in the way. Its purpose is to make an exit above the waterline for the c/b cable.
It is true the early 23's can be safely sailed with the board removed, but this turns a normally decent sailer into a real pig! that can carry only a very small headsail without trying to slide off course.
If the keel has rusted it often expands inside the slot and puts a death grip on the c/b. Even if you buy a factory new board for 500$, it might not fit in the now more narrow slot.
This is why d.i.y.selfers often make a homemade replacement c/b that is thinner.

You can remove the entire keel case from the hull- it unbolts from inside and service it that way, but it is a lot of work.
I don't mean to sound negative- all this work can be a great learning experience it just takes a lot of time. I went from a 1971 iron keeled 23 to a 1984 lead keeled 23 and was very happy - not only with the better keel- but also many other changes made over the years, Good luck.

Joe11688 · Oct 13, 2009

LANCE ON CLOUD NINE said:
If you remove the table post, you will only expose a plastic tube that is bonded into the floor. It is almost as tall and just as much in the way. Its purpose is to make an exit above the waterline for the c/b cable.
It is true the early 23's can be safely sailed with the board removed, but this turns a normally decent sailer into a real pig! that can carry only a very small headsail without trying to slide off course.
If the keel has rusted it often expands inside the slot and puts a death grip on the c/b. Even if you buy a factory new board for 500$, it might not fit in the now more narrow slot.
This is why d.i.y.selfers often make a homemade replacement c/b that is thinner.

You can remove the entire keel case from the hull- it unbolts from inside and service it that way, but it is a lot of work.
I don't mean to sound negative- all this work can be a great learning experience it just takes a lot of time. I went from a 1971 iron keeled 23 to a 1984 lead keeled 23 and was very happy - not only with the better keel- but also many other changes made over the years, Good luck.

Ahoy there, Lance!
I have three questions for you that maybe you could answer.
Does the winch cable run straight down and connect to the board on a 73, or is there a small sheave up inside the keel slot? Does your 84 have a small sheave up inside the slot for the pendant line like mine? Do you think that the boat that he's looking at could be converted over so that the board could be raised and lowered from just inside of the companionway opening? I'm curious.
Joe

LANCE ON CLOUD NINE · Oct 13, 2009

Hi Joe-

1.)My first 23 was a 71 full pop top. It appeared the cable ran straight up and down. Cant say if it was exactly because the cable was broken and pulled out a hunk of trailing edge of c/b. The board was so stuck, I removed the keel casing and layed it on a pallet to better work on it. After days of soaking with pb blaster the board still felt like it was in a vice. I finally had to beat it out with a heavy chisel and mallet- it was totally destroyed.
2.) I have not serviced the board on the 1984- don't know if it has a sheave or not. My feeling is the all line lift goes directly to the board. I think the secret to its smoother operation is the better angle of attack from moving it back.
3.) I think the c/b line could be moved- the top of the keel casing is an open slot where it meets the boat. The line could pass through the top of the casing at any point you wanted. It would be a lot of work.
I am not afraid of projects like this at all- it's just that the newer boat happened to present itself and was nicer and more enjoyable in so many ways for such a small amount of extra money. It only took about a minute to figure that I would spend far more in money and time to make the old boat similar to the newer one. Good luck!
Thank you Joe for all your input here.

Joe11688 · Oct 13, 2009

Thank you Lance for answering some tough questions about this boat. One of my YC members had one of these older 23s with the same keel issues. He loved the boat but at the time, he didn't know why the centerboard was getting stuck in it, but I'm sure he learned the reason from Rudy. He worked part time for him later on, in the store. I heard that a local boatyard claimed the boat for storage fees and they removed the old keel and installed a regular keel on the boat and sold it. They can be repaired, but it takes a lot of time, work, and money. I think you made the right move by getting a later model O'Day 23. I've heard that they are a great boat.
Smooth Sailing!
Joe

HukilauMike · Oct 14, 2009

Jack: the Oday 23 is a masthead rig, which in layman's terms means it depends on the headsail (be it jib or genny) for a significant if not the majority of the drive. You can "sail" with just the main, but the boat will be unbalanced and you will be more than slow. The Oday 23 does not sail well under just the main. When I sail with only one sail, it is the genny, not the main. Sailing without the centerboard is different; you can do that with no compromise in safety, but you will make significantly more leeway, and you won't be able to point as high into the wind. The big issue with removal of the table post is that unless you permanently fill the hole into the bilge, you will need something above the cabin sole (tube or not) that brings the pendent line hole above the waterline.