O'Day 23 broken mast step casting

Joe11688 · Feb 3, 2012

heymagic said:
The weather is mild up here, so I got in some boat time. Here are some pictures of the step. Someone drilled two holes through the mast at some point and broke the casting. The pieces were not in the mast, so I assume the casting was removed after that. Besides the cracked corner, the other three corners of the rectangular piece, are turned up a little, rather than flat. I don't know if that is normal or not. I think the gray stuff between that and the top part of the hinge, is 5200.
My plan is to take it over to the marina, and see if he has a part. If not, we will try welding it. If that doesn't work, I might get one made locally. They have the hinge piece at the marina, and as you can see, it is really deformed.
In any case, I will whittle one out of metal with a meat skewer, before I give RigRite $267 for a new one. A similar size part from Dwyer is about $50!! It unfortunately won't fit the Kenyon 3560.
Any thoughts?
MikeB

As you know through our correspondance Mike, I'm going through this very same dilemma.
The other day it was so unseasonably mild outside that I decided to uncover part of my boat near the bow so that I could get at the mast. I had an extra piece of Trex left over and I wanted to make a mast plug out of it. I had to unwrap a short length of polytarp from the bottom of my mast. I had removed the other stainless steel mast plug made by Rig-Rite, and upper hinge plate last fall before I covered my boat.

What I wound up doing the other day was to make an imprint or pattern of the bottom of my mast on a piece of thin cardboard. I put a thin layer of Vaseline around the bottom of the mast and added some blue chalk line powder to it. Then I carefully place the cardboard against the open bottom of the mast and with a soft mallet, I tapped the cardboard around the perimeter of the mast to get the imprint which I later cut out and transferred to the 1" thick Trex block. I cut the block with my bandsaw and made many trips in and out of the cellar to my drill press with the sanding attachment drum.

I had taken a trip last Tuesday to Newport RI to visit two nautical consignment stores and couldn't find anything that I could use to Mickey Mouse this project. The guy in one of the shops pointed me in the direction of a metal fabrication shop just behind his store and I walked over there and got the guy to cut me a piece of 1/4" thick X 5"X18" sheet of Aluminum. He only charged me $10.

So here's my plan: I've already constructed the Trex plug that fits snuggly into the bottom of the mast and I plan on cutting the Aluminum plate to the same shape as the plug--but a little larger all the way around so that the weight of my mast sits on the Aluminum plate.

I plan on drilling two holes for the bolts going through the plug and the plate.

The plug will be held into the mast with three stainless steel wood screws going through the side of the mast with nylon washers between the mast and the screws. I also plan on applying a little Never-Seize to the smooth part of the screws where the washers and mast come in contact. This should prevent electrolysis from building up.

I'm going to make some kind of provision for the rain water to drain out of the mast at the plug.

So in essence, what I'll have is a Trex mast plug attached to an Aluminum plate for the mast to sit one, plus two more pieces of 1" thick Trex under the plate, bolted to my upper hinge plate with two long bolts.

The Trex between the plate and the upper hinge plate will be the same shape as the plate.

If you decide to go this route on your 23, you could make up the difference for height by using a piece of trex mounted on top of your cabin top under your tabernacle hinge plate. This may provide the height needed so that your stay lengths can come out right.
It may also be a huge benefit in raising your mast as I had found out years ago when I first started using a Gin Pole. Just that 1" height alone provided enough clearance needed over the sliding hatch to have my mast sitting in the rear mast crutch at it's lowest point while pinned to the tabernacle ready to be raised. Otherwise, I would have had to raise my mast crutch each time and pin it whenever I raised or lowered my mast. So, it worked out good for me.

As for your project, I'm really not sure if this is the best way for you to go because at least your mast is full length whereas, I needed to cut 2" off the bottom of my mast, so I really have no choice in the matter. In a way though Mike, we're both in the same boat.

Good luck!
Joe

Joe11688 · Feb 4, 2012

Maybe you could replace that cast aluminum plate with a piece of 1/4" Aluminum plate like I'm doing. Would that work? If you have a mast plug or casting that fits in the mast, it's just a matter of changing your hinge plate out to a new one and getting the right measurement so that your stays will come right.
It's important to make sure that the mast is placed on the cabin in the exact spot as it was before to keep the center of effort in the same place in relation with the keel.

I think that spring is coming early this year. I'm going to order my bottom paint on Monday. http://www.supershipbottom.com/PAINT SPECS.htm
I like this paint.
Joe

geehaw · Feb 5, 2012

Mike I just wanted to add that there are spacer on the hinge plate to fill the void between the two plates. While off mate the two to make sure they have no space between them. It seem to me there would have to be for it to bend like that. Unless the damage was done when the mast was off or raising or lowering. Even over tightening the back stay should just push through the spacer to lower plate and not bend the hinge plate like that. Greg

Joe11688 · Feb 5, 2012

heymagic said:
I think the plate might be the only way to fix the existing mast step. Unless I mill .25 inches off the bottom of the step, the mast will be that much taller. I don't think it will matter. I would just drill the new piece out to use the same holes so it is in exactly the same place as the other plate. I think I should remove and replace the part of the hinge that mounts to the cabin top while I'm at it.
Tomorrow I will soak the winches and see what I need to replace. Keep your fingers crossed on the pawls, springs, and clips. I will try and order some, and if it works, I will share the source with the whole forum. I just don't want to be the source of bad information.
As always, thanks for the encouragement and information Joe. Oh! and I will trade cheese for steamers!
MikeB

Mike,
I would do whatever needs to be done to keep the mast at the same height even if it means cutting a 1/4" off the bottom of the mast and making up the difference on the cabin under your new tabernacle hinge plate. If you do buy a new tabernacle hinge, you should also buy the utility plate with the holes in it which the tabernacle sits on.

When I lost my first mast years ago and had a new mast made up with a S.S. tabernacle hinge, I needed to add 1" more height on the cabin because the S.S. hinge took up less space than the cast aluminum hinge that came with the mast.
As I mentioned previously, I was always glad that I added that 1" thick Teak block under my hinge plates on the cabin. I've since replaced it with a piece of 1" Trex which I think is even better than the Teak.

It sounds to me like you'll have too much height for your stays to come right if you replace that plate. If this is the case, then it can be solved pretty easy by taking the difference off the mast.

I had to take 2" off my mast because it was completely corroded and ready to blow out. I had a welder tell me that about four years years ago so this wasn't really anything new to me, but where I have a 1" block on my cabin and I'm short that 2.25", I really have no choice but to add on to the mast with anything I can find.
For me, Trex is the way to go.

My son gave me a PVC Foam board to use which I think is lighter than Trex. I may use it to make up the 2" needed under the 1/4" plate.
Captain Patrick McCrary uses this stuff on his Bertram 31. It's a pretty good alternative to plywood. Check it out.
http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/index.htm

Steamers are pricey and getting hard to come by Mike. My wife and I plan on going to a restaurant in Norton this week called the Chateau, for seafood. I'll think about you while I'm having their "Fisherman's Platter".

Joe11688 · Feb 6, 2012

heymagic said:
Joe
I don't know why I'm even speaking to you after you mentioned the Fishermans Platter!
I answered a post by Greg above that talks about some of those height issues. What do you think about the plate below the hinge idea?
This is probably overthinking and overkill, I just don'tlike to be the PO that did half-a**ed fixes we write and hear abou.
MikeB

I think that would work for you. My mast was sitting on three Trex blocks last year and that worked.
When you make changes to a mast step and have to deal with extrusions, it's best to think outside of the box. There can be another way of accomplishing the same task for less money that doesn't involve welding.

Last year I brought my mast to a marine welder on the river and he told me that the bottom of my mast was corroded and needed to be cut off.
I thought to myself, "Ok, I'll go along with that." Then he starts telling me what the fix would involve which I wasn't too keen on, like adding another piece to the bottom of the mast and welding flat stock Aluminum to the seam,----at $300 just for labor!

I went home and had my son cut the 2" off my mast and built an extrusion out of some Trex that one of our club members gave me and I was back on the river sailing again in less than two weeks. Of course, it helps if you can get in your vehicle and go down to see Rudy Nickerson and run it by him.

I haven't talked to Rudy about this latest endeavor but I did talk to two marine consignment store owners in the Newport area who seemed pretty knowledgeable, and they seemed to think it would fly.

I just emailed this guy yesterday with a question on PVC Foam Board.
http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/index.htm Whether he'll get back to me on it, I really don't know.

I went on this guy's Blog and asked him a question and got a vague reply.
http://www.thevirtualboatyard.com/2009/06/building-a-better-mast-step.html
Click on to his site and just to the right of the picture of the mast step you'll see an ad for Aluminum castings. It might be worth checking out.

On another note, you mentioned working on your winches and someone on the forum had a great tip for working on Gennie winches. Take a cardboard box and make a hole in the bottom center of the box and put it over the winch drum. This will contain any small parts that may pop off the winch like tiny springs and pawls and keep them from getting lost. Seem like a pretty good idea to me. The manufacturers of these winches are probably out of business and parts are scarce. It would behoove anyone not to lose any parts to them.
Good luck Mike!
Joe

geehaw · Feb 6, 2012

I see no reason why a plate wouldn't work. I have wondered why they did it the way they have. Maybe for air circulation to minimize corrosion? Who knows. Greg

Joe11688 · Feb 7, 2012

heymagic said:
Whoever invented Spirolok type retaining rings, should be forced to remove and reinstall 40 small ones while sailing to Block Island in a chop. Any deformed one, would require he or she start over on a smaller boat in a bigger chop! This is, of course, after eating a Fishermans Platter with Joe! Any guesses as to what I am trying to do at home in the shop with good lighting and 65 year old eyes? Aaaarrrrrrgh!
MikeB

Mike,
Don't you have a pair of those split ring pliers to use or is it difficult to get in there to get at them? I take it that you're working on your winches. I haven't taken my winches apart in years. I figure that as long as they turn, I should just leave them alone.
The last time I had both of my winches apart I replaced the defective fiber spools under the drums. A company in CT sent me some good fiber spools free of charge back then.
Well good luck with that project Mike. It always helps when you swear at it a little.

Joe

Joe11688 · Feb 7, 2012

heymagic said:
Hi Joe,
I am used to those snap rings with little holes in each ear.

View attachment 48215

I could probably use those if I could find some SS ones to fit. On the larger Spiroloks, I remove them by getting the tip of an exacto knife in back of the split, an then slide that or a jewelers screwdriver around the inside until I can work it off. On the smaller ones, everything is complicated by the size, and in this case, the fact that it is recessed into the bottom of the winch. There's probably a better way.
MikeB

Mike,
I have a pair of pliers that are made special for both the external and internal retaining rings. You can probably pick them up cheap at Harbor Freight. I don't use them all that often but when I do, they're worth having in my tool box.

Joe11688 · Feb 17, 2012

I'm going to have to take certain precautions to isolate the two stainless steel bolts that go through my plug and the 1/4" Aluminum plate. Perhaps I'll apply some Never-Seize on the bolts and the plate where they come together. I had forgot about that and I'm glad that you brought it up. I've seen those type of splacers on upper hinge plates and have wondered about them. I don't plan on using them. What size are those bolts that are holding the plug to the plate Mike? They look like 1/4" bolts.

Joe11688 · Feb 18, 2012

heymagic said:
Joe,
I'll measure those bolts in the AM and let you know. I might just use some Permatex Right Stuff between the step and the hinge. It's really good for leveling out the hills and valleys. I think the Never-seize might be a good idea or Tef-gel
I'm still tossing around the aluminum plate in place of the spacers idea.
MikeB

Thanks Mike, I know that they have some stuff on the market that is used specifically for insulating the two metals but Rudy Nickerson of D&R Marine told me to use Never-Seize because it can accomplish the same task. I don't think that I should use any bolts larger than 1/4" because there isn't really that much room on the top surface of my Trex mast plug for two larger holes.

O'Day 23 broken mast step casting

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