Took my 1984 23-2 out Sunday & had a nice motor-sail 20 miles down the river. One issue I found was, the main sail would not go all the way up. As in, the gooseneck was all the way down on its little track and the luff of the sail was still loose. This is the original 1984 main sail so it should be the correct size. This boat has internal halyards, with a turning block to bring the halyard through a line stop & back to the cockpit. There are no winches for either halyard, and it is set up backward from what I am used to (main halyard on left, jib on the right). The sail slides did not seem to be jammed, the sail came down fine and went almost all the way up easily. It is possible the track is damaged up high but I could not see anything from the deck. Any ideas?
O'day 23-2 Halyards
- Thread starter Ziradog
- Start date
How high up on hte mast does the main halyard exit? Does it come out right at the base? The 23 did not originally come with internal halyards, and they originally would have been cleated on the mast.
That said, it sounds to me like there is too much friction in the setup on your boat, if the halyard exited the mast higher up (like about 5-6' or more) what I would do is try raising the sail standing at the mast and when the sail was as far up as it will go easily, if it was not all the way up.... I would reach up and pull the halyard away from the mast while keeping a turn on hte cleat, then pull that slack out at the cleat. Repeat as needed to fully tension the luff of the sail. I need ot do this every time I raise the main o nmy DS II, but my main has a stretchy boltrope and that needs to be tensioned. Still, on hte 23 I have a feeling that without a winch, you will never get proper tension on the luff of your main due to all the friction (even with good turning blocks!) that wil lresult from running the halyards back ot the cockpit instead of cleating them on hte mast as original. You could try the above "swigging" method that I describe by doing hte same thing between hte turning block and the line stopper. Worth trying!
PS: Brian, you make a good point....... all (except, maybe the outhaul?) those could have an effect (I release them all, except the outhaul, instinctively, so never considered those as possible factors.)
That said, it sounds to me like there is too much friction in the setup on your boat, if the halyard exited the mast higher up (like about 5-6' or more) what I would do is try raising the sail standing at the mast and when the sail was as far up as it will go easily, if it was not all the way up.... I would reach up and pull the halyard away from the mast while keeping a turn on hte cleat, then pull that slack out at the cleat. Repeat as needed to fully tension the luff of the sail. I need ot do this every time I raise the main o nmy DS II, but my main has a stretchy boltrope and that needs to be tensioned. Still, on hte 23 I have a feeling that without a winch, you will never get proper tension on the luff of your main due to all the friction (even with good turning blocks!) that wil lresult from running the halyards back ot the cockpit instead of cleating them on hte mast as original. You could try the above "swigging" method that I describe by doing hte same thing between hte turning block and the line stopper. Worth trying!
PS: Brian, you make a good point....... all (except, maybe the outhaul?) those could have an effect (I release them all, except the outhaul, instinctively, so never considered those as possible factors.)
Thanks guys. The main sheet & vang were luff, I did not think about the outhaul though. The halyards exit at the very base of the mast, so I could not try to sweat out the slack. I did lead the halyard over to the sheet winch but didn't want to break anything. There did not seem to be much friction until it was near the top, that was the strange part. It looked sort of like the lead at the top of the mast wasn't true but I couldn't really tell.
I might want to see what things look like at the mast head. Is the head board getting pulled up straight, is there something happening when the sail gets up to the top of the mast that causes the halyard to pull cockeyed? Have you tried a little dish detergent on the sail slugs to see if that might help them slide up more easily?
I don't have any problems with my main, but I do need to soap the track of my furler a little to get the head sail to go up easily.
I don't have any problems with my main, but I do need to soap the track of my furler a little to get the head sail to go up easily.
Since these boats did not come with internal halyards, were the sheaves etc installed in the original mast or was the mast replaced with a shorter one. If sheaves were installed, that means the installed sheave would be lower than the original one across the top, this would not allow the main to raise as high as required. If this is the case then you need to either shorten the top of the main sail or move down the boom track to allow proper tightening of the luff.
Just my thoughts......
Just my thoughts......
I went today to try to figure stuff out but the weather was too crappy to really do much. I did verify a few things:
1. The mast is plenty tall (long)enough for the sail. The top of the sail headboard is a good foot+ below the black band at the top of the mast. That is more than enough to tighten up the luff.
2. The internal halyards may not be original, but they were apparently professionally done. The bottom of the mast has a cast piece that the lines exit through, with turning blocks inside - not something your average boat owner could make.
3. The resistance on the halyard does not gradually increase until you can't move it, it is almost (but not quite) a dead stop.
4. Even with the shackle in the hole closest to the mast, the lead from the top block is not real fair. I am thinking this is a big part of the problem.
Any other ideas? I was hoping not to drop the mast until fall as I am on a mooring. Thanks for any ideas.
1. The mast is plenty tall (long)enough for the sail. The top of the sail headboard is a good foot+ below the black band at the top of the mast. That is more than enough to tighten up the luff.
2. The internal halyards may not be original, but they were apparently professionally done. The bottom of the mast has a cast piece that the lines exit through, with turning blocks inside - not something your average boat owner could make.
3. The resistance on the halyard does not gradually increase until you can't move it, it is almost (but not quite) a dead stop.
4. Even with the shackle in the hole closest to the mast, the lead from the top block is not real fair. I am thinking this is a big part of the problem.
Any other ideas? I was hoping not to drop the mast until fall as I am on a mooring. Thanks for any ideas.
Backwards sides for the main and jib halyards seem to be a BIG question to me.
For those who own these boats, what side should they be on? As far as I know, only the French do it backwards.
I'd look closely to see if the swap of the sides means that the halyards go to the proper sheaves at the top but come down on the wrong side. That'd possibly be your problem
For those who own these boats, what side should they be on? As far as I know, only the French do it backwards.
I'd look closely to see if the swap of the sides means that the halyards go to the proper sheaves at the top but come down on the wrong side. That'd possibly be your problem
I'm not sure a mast winch came standard, so it's not like you need the headsail halyard on the port side. Mine's "backwards", but it has never made a difference. As others have mentioned though, mine also has the standard external setup, not internal halyards.Backwards sides for the main and jib halyards seem to be a BIG question to me. For those who own these boats, what side should they be on? As far as I know, only the French do it backwards.
Ziradog .... lots of possible causes - Are you sure the problem is the sail?
To make sure that there is not something inside the mast bloacking this I'd suggest you put a follower on the main halyard and then take it up to see how high you can get the halyard. If the halyard only goes to the same position then perhaps there is some sort of stopper inside the mast.
If the Halyard can go to the top then there is something in/on the mainsail which is causing the binding. If this is the case I'd look at the sail slugs and see that they are free to move up the mast.
Can you see if there is a place where the tension appears? i.e. a sail slug is getting stuck for some reason.
Good luck with this - take a picture of the sail up for us to take a look at and perhaps we can see something you are missing.
To make sure that there is not something inside the mast bloacking this I'd suggest you put a follower on the main halyard and then take it up to see how high you can get the halyard. If the halyard only goes to the same position then perhaps there is some sort of stopper inside the mast.
If the Halyard can go to the top then there is something in/on the mainsail which is causing the binding. If this is the case I'd look at the sail slugs and see that they are free to move up the mast.
Can you see if there is a place where the tension appears? i.e. a sail slug is getting stuck for some reason.
Good luck with this - take a picture of the sail up for us to take a look at and perhaps we can see something you are missing.
Thanks guys. I was going to try hauling a line up teh mast Saturday but I like the sail slug idea even better. I hav e a50' hank of 1/8" line I can use for a down haul.
OK, I tried both Brian's and James's ideas. In both cases, the halyard would not go all the way up the mast, and neither will the jib halyard. I think the issue is the braided eye around the shackle. The rope is thicker for about 6" below the eye, and that thick section will not go over the sheave. I will try tying the shackle about 1' below the eye & see what happens next time I get to go sailing.
What size line is your halyard? Maybe it is too large? I have 5/16" on my 25. Strength wise I could have used 1/4" but wanted a bit larger for better handling. If someone put a larger diameter halyard on, it may well be too large for the sheave on top.
Good point. It is 3/8", which is easier to handle but probably over-sized from a strength perspective.
Ward was right. the 3/8" halyard is big enough that the spliced section near the shackle will not fit through the openings at the top of the mast. Looks like I will have to cut off the splices & go with knots (or swap the whole halyard out for 5/16" line). The halyards do not look new, so I don't understand why the previous owner sailed it like this.
The list that I have from O'DAY (posted on this web site somewhere?) lists the main and jib halyards for the 23 being 5/16" braid. I think one problem is definitely the 3/8" halyards are over-sized for the sheaves, and the eye-splice tail would make a section of the halyard even larger. I wonder if a previous owner did the splicing him/herself and didn't taper the core and cover strands enough before burying them in the splice?
I had the same prob on my 222. After an embarrassing number of labor intensive mistakes I found the 3/8 line w/ an eye splice and metal clip too long. Cut it off and have used a bunt line hitch happily ever-after. What a difference a tight halyard make! Prob. lose some strength w/ a knot but the line is over kill. (my old tired hands like the bigger size)