Oday 222 roller furler jib/genoa sizing question

[timpete]

Hello all, I purchased my Oday 222 a year or so ago and the previous owners had it outfitted with a hank-on 100% (I believe) jib. It works fine and is decent shape but I'm tired of flaking it on the foredeck and stowing it in the bag each time I sail. My wife would also love being able to lower canvas more quickly for when we go for a swim, or see a squall line approaching.

I'm planning to upgrade to a CDI FF2 furling jib setup in the upcoming year and am curious what other 222 owners think about size. I do not want to deal with new block location or annoying tacks because I sail on a small lake so am tacking every 5-10 min, so the 150% genoa is out. I'm debating between a 130% genoa or a standard 110/100% jib to go on the CDI FF2. I don't often want more sail area as the lake I sail tends to be windy (or I filter the days I sail based on wind) and moreover, gusty. However, I wouldn't mind the 130% for that occasional drifter day. I think I care more about reefing the jib as in a heavy day, IMO the 222 sails quite unbalanced i.e. weather helm with just the main, so would like to be able to fly a bit of headsail in 15-20 kt winds with reefed main to keep the weather helm down. I also have aspirations to do some Great Lakes sailing so would like the foresail to sail ok roller-reefed.

Should I get the 130 genoa or 100 (or 110) jib? Would the 130 have much poorer shape reefed than a 100 jib reefed (partially furled)? Or is that a small tradeoff, and I should just get the 130 for light days? Thanks for input!

 

[Tally Ho]

I have a larger O’Day (322), but recently replaced my old Genoa (155). I sail on Lake Michigan, and I went to North Sail for a new sail. In speaking with my sail rep, he asked how often I reefed my 155…and I said quite often. He recommended a 135 for my boat and sailing location.

If you are getting a sail from a local loft, I would ask them for a recommendation.
If you are doing a mail order sail, and you seldom wish for a larger sail, I would stay with the 100 (or maybe a 110). You can still sail in light winds, maybe not as fast, and you won’t be worrying about reefing the larger head sail and getting a less efficient sail due to the furler.

I have sailed my smaller head sail for 2 seasons now, and I seldom miss the larger sail. More often than not, I am sailing in strong winds, maybe even reefing my 135.

Just my 2 cents. Hopefully a 222 owner will chime in.

Greg

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I'd recommend getting a slightly larger furler than needed if you have a genoa. I have a 135 or 150% genoa (I've never measured it). The line would constantly fill up the spool and jam against the housing. There were two lengthy threads about possible issues and nobody believed my theory. Removing the core of the line did not help nor did smaller line. I removed the housing last season and it helped significantly but the line would fall off the spool. I enlarged the spool with sheet metal top and bottom plates this year. The issue has essentially been resolved. Just something to consider.

 

[jssailem]

Why add complexity to your beautiful boat.

You have a fractional rig sailboat. The jib is meant to be small and the main big. Hank-on sails are quick and easy to raise or lower. The 100/110 Hank-on is easier to handle and will sail better than a 130 on a furler.

The main is 34% larger than your jib. When gusts happen you ease the main to keep the boat upright. If you need to reef first reef the main.

A Hank-on sail will drop to the deck very quickly. It keeps the weight low. A furler adds weight to the rig, detracting from the boat’s design stability. A furler adds complexity to managing the mast on a trailer sailer.

If you “need” to add a furler and sail, limit it to the 110 sail and the lightest furler you can find.

Just my thoughts.

 

[timpete]

Why add complexity to your beautiful boat.

You have a fractional rig sailboat. The jib is meant to be small and the main big. Hank-on sails are quick and easy to raise or lower. The 100/110 Hank-on is easier to handle and will sail better than a 130 on a furler.

The main is 34% larger than your jib. When gusts happen you ease the main to keep the boat upright. If you need to reef first reef the main.

A Hank-on sail will drop to the deck very quickly. It keeps the weight low. A furler adds weight to the rig, detracting from the boat’s design stability. A furler adds complexity to managing the mast on a trailer sailer.

If you “need” to add a furler and sail, limit it to the 110 sail and the lightest furler you can find.

Just my thoughts.

This is good input and well taken. I may have some of the "everybody else has roller furlers" syndrome. I agree that the Oday 222 is powered primarily by the main and the 100% jib is there to balance the helm and assist pointing. Yes, my progression of reefs is (<10 kts: full sails -> 10-15 kts: jib and reefed main -> 15+ kts: reefed main. Going along with what you are suggesting, I could purchase an undersized or storm hank-on jib to fly on those heavier days with reefed main.

However, it seems like 90% of the 22' sailboats I see in my area (Odays, Catalinas, Hunters, etc) have a roller furler. I can't believe it's a terrible idea, people seem to like the convenience.

I do appreciate your point about added weight and sail shape, and the fractional rig, and so I might go with the 100/110 like you said if I upgrade to a furler.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

While the convenience of a furler is huge, I find it to be a good safety device as well. It keeps me from going on deck in waves. And most importantly, keeps me in the cockpit to reef when the weather gets rough. It changes on a dime on Lake Michigan

 

[kappykaplan]

And most importantly, keeps me in the cockpit to reef when the weather gets rough.

 

[jssailem]

I find it to be a good safety device as well. It keeps me from going on deck in waves.

I can understand this thinking. In my youth, racing in San Diego Bay and out of Mission Bay, working on the foredeck was where you learned. Jib changes, flying and retrieving spinnaker’s in all sorts of weather was a part of the job / excitement.

Being of a mature age, I still enjoy moving about my boat, even if now I use a PFD, jackline and tether. During the winter I use a dry suit. I don’t feel it is unsafe. It does require care and a plan. You need to move with meaning and maintain a grip on the boat. There is a saying “one hand for the ship and one for yourself.”

In seriously foul weather I’m on my knees and scoot to the bow. I resolve the issue then move back to the cockpit.

If you practice moving about your boat using safety gear during the moderate conditions you’ll gain more confidence to help you in more challenging times.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I can understand this thinking. In my youth, racing in San Diego Bay and out of Mission Bay, working on the foredeck was where you learned. Jib changes, flying and retrieving spinnaker’s in all sorts of weather was a part of the job / excitement.

Being of a mature age, I still enjoy moving about my boat, even if now I use a PFD, jackline and tether. During the winter I use a dry suit. I don’t feel it is unsafe. It does require care and a plan. You need to move with meaning and maintain a grip on the boat. There is a saying “one hand for the ship and one for yourself.”

In seriously foul weather I’m on my knees and scoot to the bow. I resolve the issue then move back to the cockpit.

If you practice moving about your boat using safety gear during the moderate conditions you’ll gain more confidence to help you in more challenging times.

An extra 10' and 10k pounds of boat makes a big difference in waves

 

[timpete]

Reporting back, I got my local loft to make me a 110 that I have on a CDI FF2. Works great! I can sail just higher than a beam reach with jib alone and board down, which I don't do alot, but is reassuring to know in case I want a more relaxing down/cross wind sail on those occasional 25 kt days. We love how much easier it makes coming into the mooring ball or dock, with less flogging sail to deal with.

I was curious to ask, do people here remove and flake the jib from the furler each time they trailer the boat? I have been. The sailmaker recommended this. But, I've seen people with rolled foresails lashed to masts while trailering also, so was wondering what was more common and better for the sail. I was thinking that leaving the jib on the furler and dropping it that way would probably save me 10 min on set up / take down times, which would be nontrivial. I'm mildly worried about dropping and raising the mask with just a little extra weight of the sail aloft as I do it with pure muscle and the help of a 110# wife (lol).

 

[shemandr]

On our Ranger 29, a masthead rig, we used to sail with the 110 jib and no main on windy days. That configuration was so easy to sail and was suitable for us to have fun but not strenuous sail. We couldn't point but could sail a close reach and if we had the main we would have been fighting it. These were day sails on relatively sheltered water.
There is an advisory about sailing without the main to stabilize the mast from pumping. I think that if your lower shrouds are adjusted properly it's not that risky. But if you are bashing into seas there could be a problem - as there might be with the main up.
As for the furling for trailering used to leave my jib furled on my Bandit 15 centerboard boat. The luff wire of the jib was the forestay so that's a bit different. But it did save time launching and breaking down which was important to me. I think it's true that furling is kinder to the sail than folding.

 

[Timm R Oday25]

We have a 135% genoa on a FF4 CDI . The luff tape doesn't feed very well into the slot . We've been lowering the mast with the Genny rolled up for 20 years . Yes, it adds considerable weight to the mast when raising or lowering. I see it as the lessor of two evils .
I also believe rolling up the sail is gentler than flaking .