O'Day 192 kick up rudder

[rswift]

We just recently relocated our 1987 O'day 192 to a lake that has shallow water at the docks such that we aren't able to mount the rudder until we are out in the main "bay" of the lake. The rudder that we are using is the original to the boat and, as best as I can tell, there is no way to kick up the rudder in order to get in and out of the dock without dragging the rudder on the ground. The rudder pivots, but I don't any way to lock in the up position or even lift the rudder up. There is line attach to the rudder that goes to a cleat on the bottom the tiller, but pulling on the line does not bring the rudder up. It's sandy, but we certainly can't reverse over the rudder. I have been looking at the follow site for a kick up rudder.

http://www.ruddercraft.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=163

Before we commit to spending $600, we would like to see if there are other, cheaper, options. BTW, this is our first year owning this boat so we are still in the process of learning about the systems and available parts out there. Any advice, pictures, thoughts...are appreciated.
Thank you. Happy Sailing!

 

[justsomeguy]

You might be able to add a pull-up line to the trailing edge.

Drill an oversized hole through the rudder, fill the hole with thickened epoxy, then re-drill a smaller hole in the center of your epoxy repair.

You may have to experiment a bit when deciding exactly where to drill, depending on the weight of your rudder, and the strength of your arms.

 

[Brian S]

Yes, Justsomeguy has it. I drilled a hole about 1/3 of the way down the trailing edge of the blade, and added a length of polyester utility line. (This stuff I have is funny - not a double braid, more like a parallel core, but not substantial, so it's skinnier than 1/4" but thicker than 3/16". Go figure. 3/16" New England Rope Sta-Set or similar is fine.) I bring this up over the back of the headstock, and forward along the tiller to an alloy clam cleat mounted on the top of the tiller. Due to the angles involved, I cannot just haul on the line to raise the rudder. Rather, I reach along the back of the headstock, and push in on the head of the blade to get it started coming up, then I can haul on the up haul line. It's mainly to cleat off and hold the blade up out of the water, because I don't like waves working the rudder at the dock, wearing the pintles and gudgeons...

For the downhaul line, I mounted a small cheek block on the side of the tiller close to the headstock, and this runs forward along the tiller to an auto-releasing clam cleat. This way, if it runs aground, the rudder will pop up automatically. I will tell you that when it happens, the cleat makes a loud pop noise, and it scares you because you think you blew a shroud or something

 

[lp_gilbert]

I have a '84 19 weekender which I think was upgraded to the 192. I still have the original rudder in storage. It is just as Brian described. There is a line attached 2/3 down the trailing edge of the rudder that you pull to raise the rudder and a line attached 2/3 or so down the leading edge of the rudder that you pull to keep the rudder down. I also have a clam cleat so that the rudder will pop up if it hits ground. I can send you pictures if you like

 

[rswift]

Thank you for your replies. If you have any photos and/or measurements that would be helpful. I don't want to place a line in the wrong place. Measurement of how high up the rudder you attached a line would be good to know. Also, I'm thinking I would attach the line with some sort of hardware that I could snag with the boat hook since pulling the rudder from full vertical might be a challenge. Thanks again.

 

[lp_gilbert]

I'll be down at the boat this week. I made the rudder I have on the boat now using the original that I still have. It will probably be a week till I get all the info together. The bad thing the oday design is that you have to lean over the stern a bit to bring the rudder in and out. I've seen some ideas about using a gas strut but I stayed simple.

 

[lp_gilbert]

This of my rudder and tiller. You can't see the 'blue' line all that clearly that keeps the rudder in place when its in operating position. Otherwise the water pressure would pop it up. I really like the tiller tamer when I'm messing with the motor. I haven't had much luck with the clam cleat. It keeps popping at the worst times

Hope this helps

 

[Brian S]

I haven't had much luck with the clam cleat. It keeps popping at the worst times

Do you mean you don't like the auto-releasing clam cleat? Did you know they are adjustable for different release tensions? Also, the line feed must go into them straight. For this reason, in various applications I have sometimes had to mount them on top of a spacer so the line goes into them level. If the line doesn't go in level, they may not work well.

Personally, knowing how the lines route on my 192, I can't imagine how an auto-releasing clam cleat mounted to the top of the tiller would work for the downhaul line.

On my headstock, I replaced many of the riveted standoff risers with a sold block of teak. Yeah, it was expensive, and thank god I had a friend with a good jointer, planer, and drill press. The idea was to stiffen the aluminum plate headstock so the rudder wouldn't twist off. Anyway, when I did that, I had to re-route the downhaul line. I used fairleads up the inside of the headstock, like, through the pintle brackets. Then it comes up to a small cheek block mounted to the side of the tiller, and then forward to the auto-releasing clam cleat. I only ever had the rudder pop once, when I was motoring slowly with the centerboard up, and I didn't realize I was in skinny water. It startled the heck out of me! On the positive side, I now know that my auto-releasing clam cleat really works!

 

[lp_gilbert]

Could possibly be that the clam cleat is at the wrong spot on the tiller. I've never hit anything with the tiller but I sail near a lot of motor boat traffic and a good wake can pop it just when I need the tiller the most. Something to look at this winter

 

[Brian S]

lp_gilbert, I will try to get pics of mine for you this weekend.

Could possibly be that the clam cleat is at the wrong spot on the tiller. I've never hit anything with the tiller but I sail near a lot of motor boat traffic and a good wake can pop it just when I need the tiller the most. Something to look at this winter

 

[rswift]

This of my rudder and tiller. You can't see the 'blue' line all that clearly that keeps the rudder in place when its in operating position. Otherwise the water pressure would pop it up. I really like the tiller tamer when I'm messing with the motor. I haven't had much luck with the clam cleat. It keeps popping at the worst times

Hope this helps

As the OP here, thank you for the feedback and pictures. To avoid the issue of the line popping out at the most inopportune time, what are the thoughts using a small cam cleat screwed through the tiller instead of a clam cleat and its apparent limitations?

 

[Brian S]

Ok, guys, here are my comprehensive photos of up- and downhaul lines for an O'day 192. This is a stock rudder, stock tiller, but with the addition of a solid teak block to space the headstock plates and reduce flex. The standard construction is side plates riveted through SS spacer tubes. Over time, these rivets loosen and the headstock bends and twists, especially the rudder blade would flex to port due to prop wash from the starboard mounted motor. This should be the same for the 222. I have never taken a close look at the O'day 19 or the Mariner, which are 2 boats commonly mistaken as a 192 and vice versa. For reference purposes, I have included a pic of the teak spacer block laying on one of the side plates in case you all are interested in how I reinforced the headstock. Note the gap at the tiller - I wanted to still be able to pivot the tiller up and lash to the backstay for cockpit space.

This shows how I must push in the top of the rudder blade head in order to get the blade to start floating up. Because the uphaul line runs flat across the back of the headstock, there is just no leverage to raise it up. This rudder was never designed to have an uphaul line. It's a fair compromise. I like having the uphaul line, as I keep the boat in the slip with the blade up to minimize wave action weeny-ing out the gudgeons creating even more slop in the steering.

Rudder in up position. Note that it is not quite up all the way in this pic. It does go up just a little bit more, so almost all of the blade is above the water.

Uphaul line cleated with alloy clam cleat (I no longer trust the black nylon plastic clam cleats.)

Downhaul line cleated to auto-releasing clam cleat. Although the line into the cleat is not quite fair from the cheek block (the cheek block could use a spacer underneath it,) I can tell you that this does indeed work! It's a startling pop

Very small cheek block on tiller leading downhaul line to rudder head. Note that I must uncleat the line to pivot the tiller up to lash to backstay for cockpit space.

View of downhaul line running through pintle brackets

Finally, a view looking down the front of the headstock, showing downhaul line passing through Holt Allen fairleads set into the teak spacer. Note that at the very bottom of the teak, I cut a groove and set a small sheave on a SS axle for the downhaul line to run fair and smoothly to the curved head of the rudder blade. The teak block does its job well, but I kinda over-engineered it maybe...

 

[Sunbird22358]

O'DAY 19 rudder is nearly, if not exactly the same as the rudder for the 192 from what I have heard. The rudder for the Mariner and RHODES 19 is different, more of an older style shape, with a mahogany wood blade and mahogany wood spacer inside top of rudder, there were sideplates (cheeks) on each side of the rudder made of aluminum, and a setup of cable and shock-cord (bungee cord) that helped hold rudder blade down/up.