Oceanworthy Sailboats
- Thread starter Paul8753
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Very well written Chris!!!!
It is good to dream about sailing but better to go sailing!!! Even sailing my windsurfer is better than not sailing. We were at Turner Marine a Catalina dealer and I was looking at the 320 and it is a good looking boat. I also looked at the Catalina 34 that a friend owns. My dream is a Pacific Seacraft 37. But my reality of a Pearson 323 is good. Tom
It is good to dream about sailing but better to go sailing!!! Even sailing my windsurfer is better than not sailing. We were at Turner Marine a Catalina dealer and I was looking at the 320 and it is a good looking boat. I also looked at the Catalina 34 that a friend owns. My dream is a Pacific Seacraft 37. But my reality of a Pearson 323 is good. Tom
Thanks!
Now I can ease my swell head on home and be put properly in my place by the Admiral who knows me so well. On the 320, I have to say that in the 15 months that we have been owned by Commitment, she has continually amazed me. I really didn't get a chance to really stretch her during the sea trials...just enough to know that she sailed satisfactorily. Since then, I have become somewhat in awe of her performance. As noted, she is stiff and fast in heavy air. Experience has led me to expect poor performance in zephyrs. Saturday, we were sailing about 45 degrees actual off of 4 knots actual and showing a steady 2 knots on the meter. The Admiral allowed as how she didn't know that we could sail that fast in so little wind. I am a bit chagrined to admit that I did not have the grace to credit the boat when she suggested that it could be attributed to the skill of the captain. As an additional benefit the remarkable appearance of the boat's interior and exterior layout are every bit as liviable their looks would suggest. That is not to say that a few improvements are not in order, just that you really get good value. I define good value as a product that encompasses sound workmanship, attention to detail, solid quality and exceeds my expectations when a fair price is paid.
Now I can ease my swell head on home and be put properly in my place by the Admiral who knows me so well. On the 320, I have to say that in the 15 months that we have been owned by Commitment, she has continually amazed me. I really didn't get a chance to really stretch her during the sea trials...just enough to know that she sailed satisfactorily. Since then, I have become somewhat in awe of her performance. As noted, she is stiff and fast in heavy air. Experience has led me to expect poor performance in zephyrs. Saturday, we were sailing about 45 degrees actual off of 4 knots actual and showing a steady 2 knots on the meter. The Admiral allowed as how she didn't know that we could sail that fast in so little wind. I am a bit chagrined to admit that I did not have the grace to credit the boat when she suggested that it could be attributed to the skill of the captain. As an additional benefit the remarkable appearance of the boat's interior and exterior layout are every bit as liviable their looks would suggest. That is not to say that a few improvements are not in order, just that you really get good value. I define good value as a product that encompasses sound workmanship, attention to detail, solid quality and exceeds my expectations when a fair price is paid.
Where to get some experience
Where can one get some serious oceanic passage experience. Is assisting with a boat delivery an appropriate option? Thanks
Where can one get some serious oceanic passage experience. Is assisting with a boat delivery an appropriate option? Thanks
Yup.
Also some of the off-shore cruising forums have crew listings where you can post your interests and read adverts for crew. Some of them require you to pay for your food, but that's often a great deal if it turns out you got a good skipper. Some of these are real bozo's so you have to screen carefully.
Also some of the off-shore cruising forums have crew listings where you can post your interests and read adverts for crew. Some of them require you to pay for your food, but that's often a great deal if it turns out you got a good skipper. Some of these are real bozo's so you have to screen carefully.
Glad to hear
My wife and I are seriously considering a 320 or 350 as our next boat... We looked at all of the "coastal" production boats in that range recently and were very underwhelmed by Beneteau's, Jenneau's and Hunter's in that range but the 350 was absolutely amazing in terms of fit and finish. I have been waiting to hear some sailing reviews so yours is nicely timed David
My wife and I are seriously considering a 320 or 350 as our next boat... We looked at all of the "coastal" production boats in that range recently and were very underwhelmed by Beneteau's, Jenneau's and Hunter's in that range but the 350 was absolutely amazing in terms of fit and finish. I have been waiting to hear some sailing reviews so yours is nicely timed David
Stong argument for the 40 footers
Great post, Chris! Our past discussions on blue water boats are worth a look in the archives. I suggest a search for "blue water" and "Henk Meuzelaar." Henk has extensive experience sailing the Pacific in a forty foot Hunter. He argues to the speed and windward ability of these boats as shortening runs, and allowing eastward sailing in the trades. Above 40 feet, all of the modern makes Paul mentioned in his original post meet design criteria for blue water cruising. All would need some preparation to be ready - another subject worth a trip to the archives. David Lady Lillie
Great post, Chris! Our past discussions on blue water boats are worth a look in the archives. I suggest a search for "blue water" and "Henk Meuzelaar." Henk has extensive experience sailing the Pacific in a forty foot Hunter. He argues to the speed and windward ability of these boats as shortening runs, and allowing eastward sailing in the trades. Above 40 feet, all of the modern makes Paul mentioned in his original post meet design criteria for blue water cruising. All would need some preparation to be ready - another subject worth a trip to the archives. David Lady Lillie
Offshore passage experience
Off topic, but someone asked about getting offshore passage experience. We have this same "will my Hunter sail the ocean blue?" discussion every year anyway. Offshore Passage Opportunities is a firm that hooks up would-be offshore sailors with people who need cheap crew, usually for do-it-yourself deliveries. The only hitch is you have to "join" OPO, which costs $200. Seems a little stiff to me. Still, if you're serious, it's a way to find real owners who are doing real passages. There's a listing on the top of the web site right now for a delivery where the owner will *pay* each crew $400 to help defray travel expenses. That's pretty rare. Usually, owners will feed you during the passage, but you have to get yourself to and from the boat. A few tightwads want you to "chip in" for expenses. For what it's worth, here's a link to the web site. It's interesting reading... http://www.sailopo.com/ Paul sv Escape Artist h336
Off topic, but someone asked about getting offshore passage experience. We have this same "will my Hunter sail the ocean blue?" discussion every year anyway. Offshore Passage Opportunities is a firm that hooks up would-be offshore sailors with people who need cheap crew, usually for do-it-yourself deliveries. The only hitch is you have to "join" OPO, which costs $200. Seems a little stiff to me. Still, if you're serious, it's a way to find real owners who are doing real passages. There's a listing on the top of the web site right now for a delivery where the owner will *pay* each crew $400 to help defray travel expenses. That's pretty rare. Usually, owners will feed you during the passage, but you have to get yourself to and from the boat. A few tightwads want you to "chip in" for expenses. For what it's worth, here's a link to the web site. It's interesting reading... http://www.sailopo.com/ Paul sv Escape Artist h336
320 vs. 350
The general consensus among 320 owners that considered the 350 seems to me that it was the Admiral's decision. The 320 has a larger reefer and the galley layout seems to be preferred. For those desiring a larger boat the 36 seems to be preferred. I have chartered a Bristol 35.5 and sailed a friend's Sabre 38 extensively as well as some others over the years. The 320 is not quite as fast due to the shorter waterline and does not have nearly as extensive stowage. But, we both find the "livability" index far higher than on anything we have cruised in. The biggest negatives for us concern the sleeping accommodations. The aft cabin is large and the berth comfortable, but the ventilation is poor. Many 320 owners have gone to AC in warm climes, but that encourages cooping up, which we find distasteful. We also prefer anchoring out which would require a generator, which we also find unpleasant. I would like to install dorades if I can design an unobtrusive, out-of-the-way system. The other main negative for us is that the forward cabin and v-berth are a bit small, and that had heretofore, been our berth of choice. On the other hand, those are the compromises one gets in return for the many advantages of a smaller hull size.
The general consensus among 320 owners that considered the 350 seems to me that it was the Admiral's decision. The 320 has a larger reefer and the galley layout seems to be preferred. For those desiring a larger boat the 36 seems to be preferred. I have chartered a Bristol 35.5 and sailed a friend's Sabre 38 extensively as well as some others over the years. The 320 is not quite as fast due to the shorter waterline and does not have nearly as extensive stowage. But, we both find the "livability" index far higher than on anything we have cruised in. The biggest negatives for us concern the sleeping accommodations. The aft cabin is large and the berth comfortable, but the ventilation is poor. Many 320 owners have gone to AC in warm climes, but that encourages cooping up, which we find distasteful. We also prefer anchoring out which would require a generator, which we also find unpleasant. I would like to install dorades if I can design an unobtrusive, out-of-the-way system. The other main negative for us is that the forward cabin and v-berth are a bit small, and that had heretofore, been our berth of choice. On the other hand, those are the compromises one gets in return for the many advantages of a smaller hull size.
Interestingly, David,
I am solidly in that school of thought. I have a decided and strong preference for sailing moderate displacement, fin/wing keeled sloops. Nonetheless, on just about every sail longer than a few hours (99% of the time I sail virtually single-handed as the Admiral isn't much into driving the boat and her back discourages pulling the strings) I wistfully miss the ability to balance the sails, loop the lazy sheet around the tiller, flop back and skim along hearing nothing but the wind and the rush of water along the hull with little or no attention to the helm for hours at a time. Yes I have an electronic autopilot, and yes, we could give up our 'back porch' for a vane steerer...but it just ain't the same. The maintenance issues and potential for breakdown inherent in autopilots is a liability in the self-reliance column and the noise a negative in the pleasure and comfort accounts. I have read accounts of fin keelers claiming to be able to balance their vessels for long periods of time, but I simply have never found the right combination of personal skill, sail cut and rig tune on any that I have sailed that would allow me to to do so for much longer than a mile or so. Perhaps, I'll luck up someday and ride with seasoned skipper who will impart the knack of it. Fair winds, Chris
I am solidly in that school of thought. I have a decided and strong preference for sailing moderate displacement, fin/wing keeled sloops. Nonetheless, on just about every sail longer than a few hours (99% of the time I sail virtually single-handed as the Admiral isn't much into driving the boat and her back discourages pulling the strings) I wistfully miss the ability to balance the sails, loop the lazy sheet around the tiller, flop back and skim along hearing nothing but the wind and the rush of water along the hull with little or no attention to the helm for hours at a time. Yes I have an electronic autopilot, and yes, we could give up our 'back porch' for a vane steerer...but it just ain't the same. The maintenance issues and potential for breakdown inherent in autopilots is a liability in the self-reliance column and the noise a negative in the pleasure and comfort accounts. I have read accounts of fin keelers claiming to be able to balance their vessels for long periods of time, but I simply have never found the right combination of personal skill, sail cut and rig tune on any that I have sailed that would allow me to to do so for much longer than a mile or so. Perhaps, I'll luck up someday and ride with seasoned skipper who will impart the knack of it. Fair winds, Chris
Chris - did you mean "NBA"
rather than "MBA" in your post! You might want to correct it for posterity's sake.
rather than "MBA" in your post! You might want to correct it for posterity's sake.
Thanks Don.
Dad Gum, but proofreading your own stuff is tricky. You tend to see exactly what you expect to see.
Dad Gum, but proofreading your own stuff is tricky. You tend to see exactly what you expect to see.
Chris, you said it all!
47 yrs old, and still think the dream, but know the reality. Would love to buy a Gannon and Benjiman boats from Martha,s Vinyard
47 yrs old, and still think the dream, but know the reality. Would love to buy a Gannon and Benjiman boats from Martha,s Vinyard
Chris, you said it all!!!!
47 yrs old, and still think the dream, but know the reality. Would love to buy one of those Gannon Benjiman boats from Martha's Vinyard and sail the world.
47 yrs old, and still think the dream, but know the reality. Would love to buy one of those Gannon Benjiman boats from Martha's Vinyard and sail the world.
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