Oceanis 370 in-mast furling

CCHer · May 7, 2013

I'm on my 2nd boat with in-mast furling and wouldn't go back. A couple of questions:
When out-hauling and furling is the boom slightly raised-i.e. the vang eased up or the topping lift tightened? When furling do you keep tension so it rolls up smoothly? Have you experimented with the tension on the halyard? Do you have vertical battens-if so does it get hung up there? They changed the design of batten pockets in recent years since the old design did cause problems. Changing to a traditional rig would be expensive: track attached to the mast and new sheave placement at the top, slides on the sail, reef points and reefing gear and lazy jack system. Also US Spars (Z spar in the US) might have suggestions.

Jackdaw · May 7, 2013

Leif Beiley, the noted Yacht designer, recently bought a 423 with in-mast furling. After pondering the setup for awhile, he converted it to a traditional rig. You can read all about it here. Good read.

http://cruisingboatdesigns.blogspot.com/2012/06/on-steep-part-of-learning-curve.html

Rob2435 · May 7, 2013

I had the same problem on my 352 until I learned how to do it right. Get the boom as low as possible, keep the sail tight, I usually leave a little wind in it, from starboard so she rolls up tight. You have to make sure there are no twists or curls in the sail while going in...If you do it right, you'll have zero issues with it. There are plenty of old posts regarding furling mains...

MSN-Travelers · May 8, 2013

A good furl assures a good deployment . . .

+1 for CCHer's response. Halyard tension can affect how well the main furls/deploys.

Boom angle plays a big roll in how well the main furls/deploys. The vang must be eased along with the mainsheet. The boom must "float" at a slight up-angle because the sail is cut in such a way the the clew is higher than the tack. Keep some tension on the outhaul when furling (to get a tight wrap) and watch the sail as it goes into the mast. The foot should slowly climb inside the mast.

A good snug furl is the key to eliminating deployment jams. If the main is "blown", then the baggy sail will never furl properly.

And yes, should you eventually want to convert the in-mast furling system to a conventional rig, this can be done. I love the in-mast system and wouldn't go back to a conventional rig.

onecoolair · May 8, 2013

aluzjaay said:
A couple of years ago, we purchased a 1993 Oceanis 370 and overall, we are very happy with the performance with the exception of the in-mast Z-Spar furling system. The sail has the tendancy to jam when unfurling at leats 2 out of every 3 times we go sailing. I have tried lubricating the sail (yes, it is old but is still in good shape and probably has a couple of seasons left in it) but without success. We have had to sail the boat reefed on a couple of occsasions due to the inability to fully deploy the main and it is starting to take the fun out of sailing:cry:. I am not a really experienced sailor so I am trying to make things a bit easier for myself.
Question I have is has anyone tried replacing or installing a lazy jack type sail flaking system on an existing in-mast furling system without having to replace the boom or re-work the mast? Woulkd a newer sail solve the problem. From what I have read, this is a common prblem on this boat model.

Why the" bleep" would want go and waste money and get rid of your a perfectly good in mast roller fulling system..... There as got to be something you are doing wrong,rig tuned wrong,blown sail,not properly putting enough drag on outhaul and letting sail roll tight enough around inside mast......Call north canvas down here in kemah and they can help find someone in your area to check out your ...."well what should not be problem" problem !!
Good luck ! I hope you can go back having more fun soon.....

onecoolair · May 8, 2013

Sorry I-pod malfunction..... will not let you edit post for simple corrections:cussing::cussing::cussing:

bob_pattison · May 8, 2013

Re SAIL: (yes, it is old but is still in good shape and probably has a couple of seasons left in it)

What appears to be good shape and what the fabric is actually capable after many seasons are two different things. Dacron sails can physically be o.k. but as they age their ability to retain the shape and NOT deform when loaded diminishes.
Furling the main loads the sail fabric in directions that are different than the primary load/design of the sail and as a result, when furling an old main it is not uncommon to see furling issues.
This can and does happen as early as 5-6 years depending on the use cycle of the sail.
I'm not sure how old your sail is...but it could easily be 10 years old, yes? Typically dacron sails last 8-20years...but after 8 their performance REALLY diminishes..both in sailing and in the case in the ability to furl.

There are tons of these systems out there working fine, so before I would replace the unit I would look to the a.) age of the sail, b.) replace the furling line (new line reduces friction in the gear) c.) do maintenance on the furling unit (us spars will carry this out for less than $100.00 I think) and d.) make sure that the outhaul car slides like silk because if it sticks at ALL you will have problems.

And yes, as others have answered, you can convert to the classic style main, with rigging work (reefing systems) and new main.

Bob Pattison
Neil Pryde Sails

FastOlson · May 8, 2013

Lots of good advice so far.
You might have to also try to remember that in-mast furling in the 90's is roughly like RF headsail gear in the early 70's. While there was much promise in the concept, it really got a lot better after 20 more years of "field testing" by customers...

Unfortunately for you, it's a LOT easier to upgrade to a new-and-improved RF system when it's only the headstay you are changing out!

I have sailed on a big 90's Catalina with this type of main. Lots of friction - furling and unfurling. It works, but you have to accept lowered expections for sailing efficiency even when you do get it unfurled.

Note B: do NOT replace that main with a cheapie like the OEM brand of sail. Go with a quality sail from a maker that will spec it out very carefully and guarantee the result. It the present sail is original, it's was past time for replacement, in any case.

Given the vintage, it was a Mixed blessing on its best day. That (dubious) feature sold lots of boats, and that was the main purpose...
(Sigh)

onecoolair · May 8, 2013

bob_pattison said:
Re SAIL: (yes, it is old but is still in good shape and probably has a couple of seasons left in it)

What appears to be good shape and what the fabric is actually capable after many seasons are two different things. Dacron sails can physically be o.k. but as they age their ability to retain the shape and NOT deform when loaded diminishes.
Furling the main loads the sail fabric in directions that are different than the primary load/design of the sail and as a result, when furling an old main it is not uncommon to see furling issues.
This can and does happen as early as 5-6 years depending on the use cycle of the sail.
I'm not sure how old your sail is...but it could easily be 10 years old, yes? Typically dacron sails last 8-20years...but after 8 their performance REALLY diminishes..both in sailing and in the case in the ability to furl.

There are tons of these systems out there working fine, so before I would replace the unit I would look to the a.) age of the sail, b.) replace the furling line (new line reduces friction in the gear) c.) do maintenance on the furling unit (us spars will carry this out for less than $100.00 I think) and d.) make sure that the outhaul car slides like silk because if it sticks at ALL you will have problems.

And yes, as others have answered, you can convert to the classic style main, with rigging work (reefing systems) and new main.

Bob Pattison
Neil Pryde Sails

Bob...... I just about totally agree with everything you said. Except for going with a new old style main setup with that fishing line threaded through it. What he really needs is good sail-maker and rigger/mast tuner that can let him know if his main has any life left in it by maybe re-cutting it and if not making him a new roller fulling main sail. Plus working with a good mast tuner expert to see that his mast is put back to its proper pre-bend specs. NOW...As far as those that don't like roller fulling of any sort. ITS A CRUISING BOAT....IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE RELAXING AND FUN! ALL HE WANTS TO DO IS GO SAILING AND HAVE FUN SITTING BACK AND RELAXING WITH NO DRAMA ! IF HE WAS A HARD CORE CAN'T SIT STILL RACER THEN HE WOULD GET AN OLD I.O.R. BOAT WITH ALL SORTS LINES/WIRE TO PULL AND GO WORK HIS *** OFF !....FYI... I can safely say been done that!

bob_pattison · May 8, 2013

outhaul car

Note that US Spars also have a new outhaul (roller bearing) car..not sure if it will retrofit on your particular boom, but if so, would well be worth the $80.00 or whatever they charge you for it.
Not surprised it is one of ours...we have been making them for B. since the late 80's....and that the main is still going...as these things are well made with Challenge Sailcloth and solid finishing.
PM for other.

aluzjaay said:
You might be correct about the age of the sail (I am not sure but I suspect it is older than 12 years as I had to get it re-stiched last year) - as it happens, it is actually a Pryde Sail. The track slide does stick as well. I will contact US Spar and ask for help and see if they have anyone close by us (we sail inland waters in NC).

bob_pattison · May 8, 2013

Trust me on this. A 12+ year old dacron main doesn't have much in the way of life left in it. Recutting would be chasing good money after bad when you consider the $80-$100 hourly rate lofts charge!

onecoolair said:
Bob...... I just about totally agree with everything you said. Except for going with a new old style main setup with that fishing line threaded through it. What he really needs is good sail-maker and rigger/mast tuner that can let him know if his main has any life left in it by maybe re-cutting it and if not making him a new roller fulling main sail. Plus working with a good mast tuner expert to see that his mast is put back to its proper pre-bend specs. NOW...As far as those that don't like roller fulling of any sort. ITS A CRUISING BOAT....IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE RELAXING AND FUN! ALL HE WANTS TO DO IS GO SAILING AND HAVE FUN SITTING BACK AND RELAXING WITH NO DRAMA ! IF HE WAS A HARD CORE CAN'T SIT STILL RACER THEN HE WOULD GET AN OLD I.O.R. BOAT WITH ALL SORTS LINES/WIRE TO PULL AND GO WORK HIS *** OFF !....FYI... I can safely say been done that!

MSN-Travelers · May 9, 2013

All it take is one really bad furl . . .

onecoolair said:
. . . . NOW...As far as those that don't like roller fulling of any sort. ITS A CRUISING BOAT....IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE RELAXING AND FUN! ALL HE WANTS TO DO IS GO SAILING AND HAVE FUN SITTING BACK AND RELAXING WITH NO DRAMA ! IF HE WAS A HARD CORE CAN'T SIT STILL RACER THEN HE WOULD GET AN OLD I.O.R. BOAT WITH ALL SORTS LINES/WIRE TO PULL AND GO WORK HIS *** OFF !....FYI... I can safely say been done that!

I suspect the OP did one real bad job of furling the main and has never properly cleared it since then. An older main, with a little sag, and a loose furl is a good way to start a disaster. Once he completely clears the jam, he should drop the main and see if it comes anywhere close to laying flat or is a baggy mess.

I believe everybody has also talked about the other factors that can make it difficult to deploy the sail. These include boom pulled down tight, boom car not moving freely (make sure the car hasn't "lost" any of its bearings), old fuzzy in-haul line and dirty/clogged bearings on the furler itself.

We don't know how the boat was used or maintained before aluzjaay bought the boat. I do know that I have never had a problem with my in-mast furler once I sorted out the maintenance issues the original owner created.

I'm going into year 15 with my OEM Neil Pryde sails and they are just starting to get a little baggy. I'm sure that the our short season (5-6 months) has a lot to do with that.

gord331victoria · May 9, 2013

+1 for Bob Pattison.
I just installed new verital batten main, and new genoa from NP. All I did was increase the size by one on the cloth weight, and gortex thread. NP is the best at making furling mains, they know what they are doing, and are usng quality materials and workmanship when the owner allows them to. If the owner is 'cheap', as most sailors are, sub par sails will be obained, and trouble everywhere. The PO of my boat had a North furling main that was a piece of crap that never set right, and always sailing low.

Now I am one VERY HAPPY CAMPER with Neil Pride. And my cost was around $5K for both sails.

I had to remove my furling drum to clean and grease the bearings following this : http://www.jeanneau-owners2.com/hintsandtips/id130.htm

good luck!

Gord

doun · May 27, 2013

I have the same problème you need to lubricate thé Béring at thé top of furling.

islandrunner70 · Jun 8, 2013

I also have a 93 370 with in-mast furling. Only had 1 jam up on furling. Is there away to find out which model number of Zspar mast is used on the boat? The furling system appears only serviceable if you step the mast.

jigray3 · Jul 16, 2013

Before you go assuming you need new sails, please remember that the most likely solution is usually the simplest. With others, I suggest cleaning and lubing the bearings. US spars recommends WD40 (I kid you not). Friction on these systems is your enemy. On mine the size and quality of the in-haul is everything. Too small and the line was bunching up on itself, and jamming (mine does not have the worm gear on the drum as a guide for the line). Too old and there was just too much friction and the line too stiff when feeding on the furling drum. And be sure to use lots of Sailkote on the lines and blocks.

My furling system and sails are 20 years old, and the furling still works reliably. Sails are way overdue, but that is another topic.