I just recently purchased a 1986 mac25 in excellent condition from a family friend. I am planning on using it mostly on the great lakes but I was wondering if it would be ill-advised to attempt a long passage. I was thinking about sailing solo or 2-3 crewed from Florida to the leewards via the Bahamas and Puerto Rico. Maybe more? I know the mac 25 is light and fairly flat bottomed compared to most ocean cruisers, but is there anything I can do to beef it up to make such a venture safe? How much ballast can I feasibly add? Is it wise to add weight to the centerboard? Has anyone ever been recorded doing, say, a pacific passage in a mac25? Any advice would be groovy, thanks.
Ocean Going Mac25?
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I don't see how the specific forum comment applies here any more than the O'Day question on this forum.
Anyhow, let's talk ballast. The Venture/Mac 25 has a weighted keel. not a centerboard. And to add weight would mean to have it recast in lead instead of iron. For a few pounds - not really worth it. You could add centered ballast IN the boat, or since the keel hangs below the hull about 12-inches when it is raised, you could add two fins either side of the keel - kind'a like a twin keel, except close to the center. But then you would have to remove the liner and reinforce the hull. It can be done (I have thought of it) but why not just buy the right boat to do what you want and that way know that way you are safer.
Anyhow, let's talk ballast. The Venture/Mac 25 has a weighted keel. not a centerboard. And to add weight would mean to have it recast in lead instead of iron. For a few pounds - not really worth it. You could add centered ballast IN the boat, or since the keel hangs below the hull about 12-inches when it is raised, you could add two fins either side of the keel - kind'a like a twin keel, except close to the center. But then you would have to remove the liner and reinforce the hull. It can be done (I have thought of it) but why not just buy the right boat to do what you want and that way know that way you are safer.
I had a Mac 25 for a few years. I sailed it a couple times on Lake Mchigan. When the swells were high, the hull pounded and flexed, like it would come apart. The keel moves in rough water unless it is locked. The rigging is too light, in my opinion, for rough water, or winds over 20 kts. If you can avoid big seas, and high winds, it will work ok, as long as everything is in tip top condition. That said; I would look for a stronger boat for what you are wanting to do.
ummmm.....NO. Not no as in it can't be done, but NO as in you don't want to try. First off, besides the weakness of the boat, the boat doesn't point well and that route you've been thinking about is not a good route as it has you beating into the waves the whole way. The preferred route is to head dead east from the northern B. Islands for about 5 days and then cut it south. That way you are not beating into the waves, however, that means you are doing true bluewater sailing and you don't want to be in that boat with 50+ knots winds that can pop out out of nowhere with 30' waves. I'm the crazy one on this site and even I wouldn't do that trip with that boat.
Sorry...just being honest.
Sorry...just being honest.
Well, lets see. Besides the keel which has already been talked about, think about re-inforcing the fiberglass all around the transom so you can deploy a JSD if needed. Replace the standing rigging with one size bigger and re-inforce the fiberglass and backing plates where they bolt to the deck.
Replace the spreaders with stronger ones.
Double the size of your chain plates with twice as big of bolts...make it 3xs.
Make scuppers twice as big as they are now and add 3 more of them.
re-inforce the fiberglass where the rudder bolts to the transom and get somebody to build you a very strong rudder...your rudder will break in a storm offshore.
Put cleats on the very back of the transom on both sides and re-inforce very well with fiberglass and big backing plates. Make sure no shafing of line for JSD (look in archives about these).
Add a second water tank.
Add a bow roler.
Update and upgrade your life-insurance policy
That's off the top of my head....as you can see, it's much easier and mostlikely cheaper to change boats then to change a boat. That boat is not meant for open water and may get you killed finding that our for yourself. As far as I know, no Mac has crossed an ocean and going to the Carribean is no easy task so you should treat it like crossing an ocean. Once there it is much easier to deal with.
A friend had a Mac 25 and it is a great little lake boat. But we got into trouble with it on a small lake in 25 knots!!! The little outboard couldn't push us towards the dock and the boat would not beat to windward. And this was on a small lake with only 4-5 miles of fetch max.
If you won't listen to reason at least start out slow and learn the boat's limitations. Take it out in relatively safe water when the wind and waves are up. You will soon discover that you don't want to be offshore in that boat. The ideal situation would be to have the lee of an island or a deep and wide cove in which to hide. Then sail out into open water and get beat up for a while. When you have had enough sail back into safety. Then remember out in the open ocean there won't be any safe harbor nearby!!! I did this with my old Helsen 22. If was fun and scarey to have waves coming over the bow and burying the rail..for a few minutes. Then I ran back into the safe cove and anchored for the rest of the day. It is probably a good ideal to have a rescue boat standing by in case you are dismasted or have some other severe trouble. Also start out with 25-35 knots...that will be plenty exciting in a Mac 25. Been there done that in a lake. No way would I do it in the open ocean.
If you won't listen to reason at least start out slow and learn the boat's limitations. Take it out in relatively safe water when the wind and waves are up. You will soon discover that you don't want to be offshore in that boat. The ideal situation would be to have the lee of an island or a deep and wide cove in which to hide. Then sail out into open water and get beat up for a while. When you have had enough sail back into safety. Then remember out in the open ocean there won't be any safe harbor nearby!!! I did this with my old Helsen 22. If was fun and scarey to have waves coming over the bow and burying the rail..for a few minutes. Then I ran back into the safe cove and anchored for the rest of the day. It is probably a good ideal to have a rescue boat standing by in case you are dismasted or have some other severe trouble. Also start out with 25-35 knots...that will be plenty exciting in a Mac 25. Been there done that in a lake. No way would I do it in the open ocean.
So is your boat in Florida or Michigan?
If you want to sail your boat from Michigan to the Caribean, you will probably have to beef it up all along the way! The question is ... why do you want to sail the MacGregor there? With the expense and time it will take to beef it up, you could probably invest the money in something more comfortable. The money you spent to purchase the boat is probably insignificant to the cost of beefing up the components.
I read an article about a guy who sailed a windsurfer from Venezuela to Florida, island hopping all the way so he never spent more than 24 hours on the water at a time. But he was going largely with the prevailing winds and waves. The route you intend to take is called the 'thorny road' if I'm not mistaken because it is against the wind and waves, making it a bumpy ride all the way. Franklin suggests an oceanic route for good reason, but as he outlines, the boat preparation is daunting to say the least. If you are going to follow the thorny road, I suppose it would be possible to keep your jaunts to a minimum and it would be possible to watch your weather windows carefully. With unlimited time and plenty of money in your bank account, you could replace components as needed, always replacing with the appropriate materials for the job. If you have plenty of luck, nothing will fail that causes you to go for a swim! I'd bet that you would replace virtually all the components on the boat on your way from Michigan to Florida anyway! When you see the hull flexing, build in some reinforcements as needed along the way when you are in port! When you notice the instability of your boat in the waves, you may think of the right solutions. With the right amount of trial and error, a great deal of luck, and a good feel for the way to improve your boat, you just may make it as long as your money lasts!
Good Luck!
If you want to sail your boat from Michigan to the Caribean, you will probably have to beef it up all along the way! The question is ... why do you want to sail the MacGregor there? With the expense and time it will take to beef it up, you could probably invest the money in something more comfortable. The money you spent to purchase the boat is probably insignificant to the cost of beefing up the components.
I read an article about a guy who sailed a windsurfer from Venezuela to Florida, island hopping all the way so he never spent more than 24 hours on the water at a time. But he was going largely with the prevailing winds and waves. The route you intend to take is called the 'thorny road' if I'm not mistaken because it is against the wind and waves, making it a bumpy ride all the way. Franklin suggests an oceanic route for good reason, but as he outlines, the boat preparation is daunting to say the least. If you are going to follow the thorny road, I suppose it would be possible to keep your jaunts to a minimum and it would be possible to watch your weather windows carefully. With unlimited time and plenty of money in your bank account, you could replace components as needed, always replacing with the appropriate materials for the job. If you have plenty of luck, nothing will fail that causes you to go for a swim! I'd bet that you would replace virtually all the components on the boat on your way from Michigan to Florida anyway! When you see the hull flexing, build in some reinforcements as needed along the way when you are in port! When you notice the instability of your boat in the waves, you may think of the right solutions. With the right amount of trial and error, a great deal of luck, and a good feel for the way to improve your boat, you just may make it as long as your money lasts!
Good Luck!
Scott even if the Mac 25 was built like a tank the design is wrong!!!! It will start surfing down waves then broach and roll!!!! I used to surf some on my Old Mac 26 which sailed better than the Mac 25. Surfing on a 3-4' wave on a lake is kind of fun. But trying to surf on 8' waves for hours at a time is not my ideal of fun. With the realtively low amount of reserve bouyancy in the Mac25 it is very likely that you could bury the bow and pitchpole the boat which is much worse than a simple roll.!!! Again no amount of fiberglass strengthening will change the design. Here is a good book that I have read. It is widely available maybe here at sailboatowners.com.
http://books.google.com/books?id=LR...esult&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=LR...esult&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Franklin's Reply #8 is well put
and essentially describes how to make a Mac25 into a basic Catalina 25!
And I still wouldn't take one offshore! Many have taken Catalina 25s to the Bahamas, but that's after waiting sometimes weeks for perfect weather windows, which people in Valiant 42s also do for their own safety.
Your idea is nuts.
Franklin is our in-house crazy and we love him. Listen to him.
and essentially describes how to make a Mac25 into a basic Catalina 25!
And I still wouldn't take one offshore! Many have taken Catalina 25s to the Bahamas, but that's after waiting sometimes weeks for perfect weather windows, which people in Valiant 42s also do for their own safety.
Your idea is nuts.
Franklin is our in-house crazy and we love him. Listen to him.
someone sailed a mac 25 to catalina from lost angeles--26 miles at sea in waves approximating 6-20 ft in height. i think he did it one time. there are some folks do this---but is a wild and crazy channel they have to cross--it depends on how strong are your depends--and your huevos.....gooood luck.......the water in east is choppier than west coast-might be a wetter ride......
read this book
John Vigor's "Twenty Small Sailboats to take you Anywhere"
it will give you an idea of the type boat to look for to make such a trip.
John Vigor's "Twenty Small Sailboats to take you Anywhere"
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