O22 steering control problems

RichBone · Jul 6, 2011

You might have the rig out of tune. The masthead is maybe too far forward giving you too much lee helm (the boat wants to fall off). If the forestay and backstay are original or original length adjust them so turnbuckles are adjusted so the threads on both ends are screwed in the same. This will get you in the ballpark. You want it so there is a small amount of weather helm (the boat wants to head into the wind).
Google weather and lee helm and rig balance
Here's some- http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/weatherhelm.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/weather-helm

Rich

kpgraci · Jul 6, 2011

That's stange, I'm no expert

but to be as severe as you descripe I'm thinking there has to be more than one cause.

Mast rake should be easy to check from a bit of a distance, my mast is pretty dead on vertical, a bit of aft rake is advisable.

The 150 could be overpowering the main, well, I'd say it is, this would cause lee helm. The main may not be trimmed right or streched out of shape so ibad t can't be trimmed right.

You said you were pretty sure the rudder was the correct one? That seems to leave some room for doubt. My rudder extends to level with the bottom of the keel.

I believe the Oday 22 was designed to have weather helm, that made it safer and easy to sail.

Sunbird22358 · Jul 6, 2011

Actually, a properly trimmed large genoa like a 150 may actually cause weather helm! Yes, it may seem hard to believe....... but I've seen it happen (not on my boat....... but on other boats that seem to sail fine under genoa alone.. and on one of my old model sailboats).

An over trimmed jib could lead to lee helm so strong that you can't correct with the rudder, an over trimmed main can cause the same problem with weather helm..... so strong it overpowers the ability of the rudder to turn away from the wind. If steering effort is eased by letting the genoa sheet out a bit..... then the jib was in too tight for the point of sail.

Technodad · Jul 7, 2011

Is your fin keel lowered all the way down? If you have not seen the shoal keel maybe the fin is not operating properly and maybe stuck.

Larsden · Jul 7, 2011

I thought that the centerboard must not be down, but it looks like you have a fixed shoal keel. What you describe sounds just like when I sailed without the centerboard down due to it being jammed. But if it is fixed, I can't add anything to what has already been discussed.

kpgraci · Jul 7, 2011

Technodad said:
Is your fin keel lowered all the way down? If you have not seen the shoal keel maybe the fin is not operating properly and maybe stuck.

The '72 Oday has a fixed shoal keel. Mine, a '73, is the same, and while it does not point as well as deeper keeled boats I can go 30*, but 35* is better. Never had a problem with lee helm.

It does sound like a keel problem, but then that's not possible, is it?

GeorgiaBII · Jul 9, 2011

with luck the keel didn't fall off.

kpgraci · Jul 10, 2011

GeorgiaBII said:
with luck the keel didn't fall off.

or maybe a big clump of barnacals on one side to throw things off.

The stays, according to a manual I read somewhere, should only be 'hand tight', which is rather subjective, but differs from many larger keel boats where you use a tension gauge to get something like 20% breaking strength on them. According to the manual it is normal for the stays to go slack on the leewoard side when reaching.

Still, I've got mine nice and snug without overtighting too much, and I don't see any slack until about 10* heel.

Sunbird22358 · Jul 11, 2011

View of O'DAY 22 hauled out (1972-78 models) showing original design of shallow (1'11" draft) keel. 1979-83 models had the K/CB with a bd up draft of 1'3" and bd down of 4'3". I decided to add a drawing of the 1979-83 version to clarify.

srojoetoo · Jul 17, 2011

what I do

I have this problem occasionally with my Od222. I just ease the main sail untill it stops turning. Seems to work. no idea why...yet.

regards

tom c
MIO AMORE

JLong80 said:
Thanks Ken, I guess I'll have to loosen the stays a little bit.

She seems to he doing a little bit better. I'm having less difficulty once I pick up speed, but still having the same problem in light winds. After slowing down through a tack, when I pick up the wind on the other side it still pushes me down. My headsail trimmer has to be very attentive in order to keep me from getting turned around.

Also, if I slow down or stop, then I can't expect to simply trim the sails and go, I will always get pushed away from the wind until the boat picks up speed. Only then can I pick up my course again.

kpgraci · Jul 18, 2011

JLong80 said:
After slowing down through a tack...

Technically speaking you should not loose to much speed during a tack. If you do slow way down then yes, steerage will be lost.

Sunbird22358 · Jul 18, 2011

One tip, never turn hte rudder any further than needed to tack. A lot of new sailors will "oversteer" and this will often result in "putting the brakes on" and virtually stopping hte boat. One thing that my Dad taught me when he was teaching me to sail was to always make my turns and tacks as smoothly as possible...... keep the boat moving as you swing through the wind.
Also, the very shoal keel of the older 22 does need to have water flowing past it to gain lift.... thus if the boat stops or slows way down while tacking... the boat will tend to make leeway (side-slip) until she gets going again and the water flowing around and past the keel starts to provide lift again. (On light wind days my DS II will do this as well, even with the CB down, and our old CAL 21 had a deep, fin-keel and needed forward motion to provide lift to windward as well).

SchwarckT · Jul 23, 2011

JLong80 said:
I'm having problems with the steering and responsiveness on my 1972 O'day 22 and wanted to see if other people have had similar issues.

Winds haven't been very good lately, but a few times they were certainly good enough to sail (so far I've topped out at 4 knots). My problem is with getting on a close reach, any time I attempt to head upwind my bow gets pushed down and the tiller is giving me no control at all. I can get pointing up wind with some difficulty while the genoa is loose, and when I tighten it she falls off the wind immediately. I spent about an hour in sailable winds making absolutely no movement upwind. Next time I sail I will see if I can get close hauled with the jib alone. I have a brand new 150 genoa, and an older main.

I'm currently looking into the sail size, and as far as I can tell the rudder is the right one. Is there anything else that I should check? What is most likely causing this?

I had similar problems with my Mariner the other day. It turns out that the centerboard and rudder were fouled with weeds. Once I cleared them off the boat behaved normally. It will be interesting to see the state of your boat's bottom when you have it hauled.

PPPPPP42 · Aug 2, 2011

I find this thread relevant to me since I'll soon have finished combining 2 oday 22's into 1 useable boat.

I'm thinking that like was said its a combination of things, all of which have pretty much been mentioned.

Over sized headsail trimmed and bit off and making a leeward pulling parachute. Possible fore/aft tuning issue on mast causing more lee helm than normal.

Rudder that doesn't have water smoothly flowing over it (the only way it does anything) either because it is turned to far or the boat lacks the speed. It has to be going a certain speed to actually make a turn to windward, if you stall the boat going upwind try falling off, running up to speed, then swinging into it again.

O22 steering control problems

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