My wife and I are in our 50's, new to sailing, have recently completed an introductory course, and wish to purchase a 14-16' day sailor to pursue the pastime on California inland lakes. We are open to any and all advice as to a boat that would be good for us to start with and will be fun and responsive in our (often light) summer winds. We've been attracted to the Hunter 140 or 146 and Lido 14. I should mention my wife is a cautious sort and is unattracted to the sort of extreme thrills provided by the trapeze and frequent capsize, but we want a boat that will plane easily. Suggestions? Thanks!
Novice seeking boat
- Thread starter kgates
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Look around and see what people are sailing at these lakes. I would get a class boat for several reasons . Used boats should be available ,along with parts .A ready community to assist your learning curve .Lots of fun doing recreational racing ,even if you don.t win ,you will learn a lot Finally when it comes time to trade up there will be a market for the boat . Have fun
I agree with the recommendation of going with a 1 Class kind of boat.
Some examples of these are: Flying Scot, Lightning (I have one of these), Thistle, 420 etc.
A wetter ride would be a Laser.
I am pretty sure that all of the above will plane.
If you are sure you don't want to race (eg., 1 Class) you might consider a Cat boat (Beetle Cat) which has a gaff rigged main sail only, wide open cockpit, very good stability, shallow draft and the lower mast should be easier to rig/unrig. They can be pricey though but are very nautical looking. Here is a link to a picture: http://www.catboats.org/images/c4s_images/c4s_141/141-16-Russell.jpg
Good luck.
Some examples of these are: Flying Scot, Lightning (I have one of these), Thistle, 420 etc.
A wetter ride would be a Laser.
I am pretty sure that all of the above will plane.
If you are sure you don't want to race (eg., 1 Class) you might consider a Cat boat (Beetle Cat) which has a gaff rigged main sail only, wide open cockpit, very good stability, shallow draft and the lower mast should be easier to rig/unrig. They can be pricey though but are very nautical looking. Here is a link to a picture: http://www.catboats.org/images/c4s_images/c4s_141/141-16-Russell.jpg
Good luck.
Not sure there is such a boat...
Hi kgates
Welcome aboard.
I'm not sure there is a planing sailboat the does not come with the "extreme sailing" associated with capsizing. At least not till you get to some of the 60' race boats. I think some of them capsize frequently too.
If the wife's desires take precedence (the Admiral??) then you might want to go slightly larger. They are more stable and have a few more "creature comforts." Otherwise I'd say go with the former recommendations of 1 class boats.
Hi kgates
Welcome aboard.
I'm not sure there is a planing sailboat the does not come with the "extreme sailing" associated with capsizing. At least not till you get to some of the 60' race boats. I think some of them capsize frequently too.
If the wife's desires take precedence (the Admiral??) then you might want to go slightly larger. They are more stable and have a few more "creature comforts." Otherwise I'd say go with the former recommendations of 1 class boats.
Small boats are great for learning, especially when you are young and don't mind hard work and perhaps a dip in the water every now and then. A larger boat in the range of 22-26 will prove easier to sail, be more comfortable and stable plus adding the possibility of spending some nights aboard. You could look for used models and probably get into one of the for less than you would pay for one of those new x-treme sailers.
Flying Scots are popular back East. There are number of teaching schools that use them due to their stability and ease of sailing. It's a long standing design that might fit your needs. Not sure it will plane though. You might also look at some of the Hereshoff designs although they tend to be a little expensive for the size. Beautiful boats though. Good luck, you should have a lot of fun.
Mike
Mike
i've just finished going through about 3-400 ads i had recently bookmarked on 3 different computers, since i had a boat located that a fellow on another site was wanting. i had been looking at another particular boat, in your neck of the woods (but 1800 miles from us), that you might seriously be interested in, and it's one that most of us on this site would steer you to as a very good first boat anyway. send me a pm on this site for the web address for pix, description and address of the current owner if you're interested, or just email me at themacway at aol dot commies. jack b
in midland, tx usaps - if this boat was within 500 miles of me, i'd have bought it sight unseen last fall. it's that nice, and a great price to boot = it needs nothing, is cheap and it's near you.
Check out this list. My first is a 1988 MacGregor 26D that cost $6000 with trailer and tons of extras.
http://jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cpboat&itm=macgregor&state=CA&fil=&ys=&ye=&submit=++++go++++
http://jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cpboat&itm=macgregor&state=CA&fil=&ys=&ye=&submit=++++go++++
An open daysailer is the most fun and by far the best boat to develop your skills while you look around at other boats. All conversation from others should be taken as input. I started with a 12 foot cat rig (1 sail, no jib) that really preferred to sail upside down. Wife & I really learned quickly the things that keep a sailboat upright. After 1 year on an inland lake, we got a used 19 foot open daysailer. This boat was much easier to sail, more comfortable and even allowed us to relax. I have never had more fun on a sailboat. I will never sell this Rhodes 19. It waits patiently on its trailer for its day on the bay again. Meanwhile, we have moved up through a progression to a comfortable cruiser that we call our weekend place on the bay without the grass to mow. Sailing is still what I look forward to on the weekend, but that open 19 foot daysailer is still my love. (I sailed with a friend on a Lido. It is way too small for 2 people. No place to duck when the boom comes across) Look for something without a cabin that is between 16 feet and 20 feet. Ask everyone you see about its qualities for beginning sailors. Plan to do patch up repairs, not first class rebuilds. Spend little money, just learn to enjoy being out on the water and learn how to let the wind push you around. In time you will decide how you want to spend your free time and what kind of sailboat will work for you. The right boat will come along (on its own) and no one will need to "sell" it to you. It is a fact, the larger the boat you have, the more time you and the boat stay at the dock. Prolong the use of your daysailer and you will get more fun out of sailing than most of the people you see on the water in their bigger boats. Harold
I have to second (third?) the suggestion of looking for something a bit larger, say 22' or so, with the right sails it will still get up and go, it will have a small cabin for the Admiral's comfort (you really want to keep her happy), can still be setup and sailed singlehanded, (even if she is out with you), and it's big enough for the ocean, if you are so inclined, and is still easy to trailer and store. My 2c. Tim
I like catalinas, either the 14.2 or the 16.5 would be perfect, fast easy to handle, and stable.... most importantly is how easily they can be rigged. Go down to Fast Lane Sailing in mission bay, san diego and talk to ron... might even get a test sail. You guys are on the right path... have fun... If you want to crew on my 27 some afternoon contact me through the member list.....
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If your Wife is reluctant, than the instability of a small planing hull could be a nightmare for her. What boat did you utilize for your course?
Keep in mind that things happen slower on a bigger boat and the boom tends to be further overhead. I heard a thunk while we were sailing a Rhodes 19 and it was the boom hitting my Wife (lightly) on the head. She forgot to duck. She never did get comfortable on those boats...the 25 was okay and she is much happier on our 30...but not a lake boat of course. It sounds like your Wife is MUCH more adventurous, but it may be tough to wed her desires with yours for a planing hull.
A 16'+ hobie cat might be your best bet. Sailed flat they are still fast, responsive in light air and stable, but you could still rig a trap when you are alone or with more adventurous company and go to town. They are also inexpensive and easy to trailer compared to many boats. You didn't mention whether or not she wanted to stay dry though ;-)
Keep in mind that things happen slower on a bigger boat and the boom tends to be further overhead. I heard a thunk while we were sailing a Rhodes 19 and it was the boom hitting my Wife (lightly) on the head. She forgot to duck. She never did get comfortable on those boats...the 25 was okay and she is much happier on our 30...but not a lake boat of course. It sounds like your Wife is MUCH more adventurous, but it may be tough to wed her desires with yours for a planing hull.
A 16'+ hobie cat might be your best bet. Sailed flat they are still fast, responsive in light air and stable, but you could still rig a trap when you are alone or with more adventurous company and go to town. They are also inexpensive and easy to trailer compared to many boats. You didn't mention whether or not she wanted to stay dry though ;-)
Many thanks to all who have offered thoughtful suggestions. I am moving in the direction of an open daysailer, 14-19 feet, ideally a 1 Class boat. While we take our early lumps learning the ropes, I think we will benefit from a lightweight boat that may allow relatively easy 'start overs' from the jams we'll get ourselves into and we don't mind working harder while learning. I know we'll be in the water in the process, which is fine (as long as the Admiral doesn't come to expect it as routine!).
Our class used a Holder 14, but the winds were so light we didn't get much of a feel for the boat. Some of you have suggested a 14-footer is too small (low boom/no room to move easily); I think we want the smallest boat (i.e. lightest, most forgiving if we need to be in the water with the boat or get out of a tight spot) within reason and without getting something we would feel was cumbersome while learning or that is too hard to right after capsize. Any advice on how we can settle on length?
Thanks, again!
Our class used a Holder 14, but the winds were so light we didn't get much of a feel for the boat. Some of you have suggested a 14-footer is too small (low boom/no room to move easily); I think we want the smallest boat (i.e. lightest, most forgiving if we need to be in the water with the boat or get out of a tight spot) within reason and without getting something we would feel was cumbersome while learning or that is too hard to right after capsize. Any advice on how we can settle on length?
Thanks, again!
Well you asked and we have informed you . I would go with the flying Scott ,most stable boat of it's size ,and you will learn . Enjoy !
Too bad you didn't have much wind in the Holder 14's. They can be pretty fun with some wind.
If I may, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Setting a 'must have' length is a bit arbitrary. You should be looking for a boat that will make you happy not a boat of some arbitrary size.
Size (length) is of course a factor as stepping the mast on some boats can be a bit of a chore (it is on my 19' Lightning) that may discourage you from using your boat. My suggestion is to actually get a ride on some of these boats before you decide to buy one. Then you can decide if the boat is right for you.
Another consideration is what boats are actually available in your area. I mentioned the Beetle Cat which seems to be largely a New England/East Coast boat (I found none for sale in CA). Do you really want to be shipping or hauling a boat all the way from Oshkosh or wherever?
I found 2 Lightning racing fleets in CA (Mission Bay & SF) where you might be able to hitch a ride as crew. http://www.lightningclass.org/Fleet/districts/californiaDistrict.htm
The Flying Scott is also a very fast, stable boat as mentioned but I'll leave finding owners of this model to you.
Some of the Lightnings that people are selling are kind of expensive and likely come with all kinds of sail shaping controls you did not have on the Holder 14'. That said, I got mine for $1k with trailer - fire sale. I would not describe it is a beginners boat but even I am growing into how to use all the controls.
You might consider the 'Snipe' which is an older 1 Class racer and likely has simpler rigging.
My main point: Try before you buy. Even if you have to pay the owner something to set up and launch the boat.
You should also try to get a ride on a Catalina 22 or similar boat. These are very stable and cannot tip over (easily) and you can sleep on it.
If I may, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Setting a 'must have' length is a bit arbitrary. You should be looking for a boat that will make you happy not a boat of some arbitrary size.
Size (length) is of course a factor as stepping the mast on some boats can be a bit of a chore (it is on my 19' Lightning) that may discourage you from using your boat. My suggestion is to actually get a ride on some of these boats before you decide to buy one. Then you can decide if the boat is right for you.
Another consideration is what boats are actually available in your area. I mentioned the Beetle Cat which seems to be largely a New England/East Coast boat (I found none for sale in CA). Do you really want to be shipping or hauling a boat all the way from Oshkosh or wherever?
I found 2 Lightning racing fleets in CA (Mission Bay & SF) where you might be able to hitch a ride as crew. http://www.lightningclass.org/Fleet/districts/californiaDistrict.htm
The Flying Scott is also a very fast, stable boat as mentioned but I'll leave finding owners of this model to you.
Some of the Lightnings that people are selling are kind of expensive and likely come with all kinds of sail shaping controls you did not have on the Holder 14'. That said, I got mine for $1k with trailer - fire sale. I would not describe it is a beginners boat but even I am growing into how to use all the controls.
You might consider the 'Snipe' which is an older 1 Class racer and likely has simpler rigging.
My main point: Try before you buy. Even if you have to pay the owner something to set up and launch the boat.
You should also try to get a ride on a Catalina 22 or similar boat. These are very stable and cannot tip over (easily) and you can sleep on it.
I am 60 and my wife and I sail and race a 15' Mutineer. Great to learn on. I have capsized it a couple of times, never with the wife on board, and we have gotten better. I also just bought another boat, a Gulf Coast 18, that is bigger and more stable with a 300# keel. I will keep the Mutineer as it is alot of fun and we race with a great group of Mutt sailors. Nichol's is making new ones for around $9,000 ready to do and you can find a sail ready one for $1000. Lots of good advice given by all.
Sounds like you plan to trailer and if so, how easy to set up and launch will possibly be more important than lenght. I would second the vote on the Catalina 16.5. Id not only try and test sail a boat but also help set one up. My first boat (a Catalina 16 which has a fixed wing keel) was about as difficult to rig and launch as my current 26 foot boat. Sure liked how the Catalina 16 sailed however. Something which sits low on the trailer is generally going to be easy to launch - which probably means some sort of weighted swing keel .
Also, there is a good chance that you will sell whatever you buy after a couple of years even if you make a very good choice for what you want at the moment. Popular known boats are easier to sell. I will always keep this in mind since it took me two years to sell the Catalina 16 (in case you have never heard of a Catlina 16 - it looks like a scaled down Catalina 18 with a fixed lead wing keel). Sailed great but the wing keel made it a relitive hassle to trailer and it just wasnt big enough to slip or use the cabin so they only made them for a few years.
I also really like the Hobie 16 but also see if you can help set one of these up. Its got a REAL mast (ie, longer and heavier than the small monohulls - dont know about the lightning however). I made a gin pole mast raising system for this so I can do it myself (not completely straight forward) and would hate to set up this boat on a regular basis without the mast raising hardware - especially if it was my wife helping... But.. what a fun boat and huge value for the money.
Also, there is a good chance that you will sell whatever you buy after a couple of years even if you make a very good choice for what you want at the moment. Popular known boats are easier to sell. I will always keep this in mind since it took me two years to sell the Catalina 16 (in case you have never heard of a Catlina 16 - it looks like a scaled down Catalina 18 with a fixed lead wing keel). Sailed great but the wing keel made it a relitive hassle to trailer and it just wasnt big enough to slip or use the cabin so they only made them for a few years.
I also really like the Hobie 16 but also see if you can help set one of these up. Its got a REAL mast (ie, longer and heavier than the small monohulls - dont know about the lightning however). I made a gin pole mast raising system for this so I can do it myself (not completely straight forward) and would hate to set up this boat on a regular basis without the mast raising hardware - especially if it was my wife helping... But.. what a fun boat and huge value for the money.
Thanks, Harold
Kgates
Harold, my wife and I especially appreciate your recommendations; they really resonate with our expectations. We will move in this direction (wind permitting).
Kgates
Flying Scot
I am another voice for the Flying Scot. VERY stable boat that will also plane in 10 knots of wind. VERY Forgiving boat to sail, and you will have no trouble reselling it when you are done with it. The used market for them is very strong. You likely will be able to sell it for what you payed for it. I towed mine with a subaru wagon. It will launch in very shallow water. Check out the FSSA.com webpage.
I am another voice for the Flying Scot. VERY stable boat that will also plane in 10 knots of wind. VERY Forgiving boat to sail, and you will have no trouble reselling it when you are done with it. The used market for them is very strong. You likely will be able to sell it for what you payed for it. I towed mine with a subaru wagon. It will launch in very shallow water. Check out the FSSA.com webpage.
Hi I followed the same path you are on about 4 yrs ago when I bought a C 15 to learn on and recently purchased a C 18 as a next step boat. I would'nt have changed a thing . I relearned to sail on a small fast and fun boat but I'm ready to take it to another level. My favorite expression is " The smaller the boat the more the fun".
Everything is faster on a small boat so you better be. Have fun
Everything is faster on a small boat so you better be. Have fun
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