Not sure if this was posted yet but very sad.
- Thread starter Windtherapy
- Start date
Wind,
That's really sad pal.
For someone to lose their life while pursuing their dream is most cruel.
I never liked or trusted open transom rails. Nor, do I like long-distance solo sailing. If a crewmate were present onboard, they may have turned around & picked her up & this would be a non-issue. Reading this article was sadly not the case.
Never take safety for granted man. Besides, if there is not someone there to share the experience, there is much lacking in the experience.
And now, her loved-ones will have to morn her death.........this is so sad. To all, please stay safe & vigilant.
CR
That's really sad pal.
For someone to lose their life while pursuing their dream is most cruel.
I never liked or trusted open transom rails. Nor, do I like long-distance solo sailing. If a crewmate were present onboard, they may have turned around & picked her up & this would be a non-issue. Reading this article was sadly not the case.
Never take safety for granted man. Besides, if there is not someone there to share the experience, there is much lacking in the experience.
And now, her loved-ones will have to morn her death.........this is so sad. To all, please stay safe & vigilant.
CR
It's sad, very sad. I wonder, why she opted not to tether in high winds and rough seas. It's always easiest to say "Should'a, could'a, would'a". I've been there too, sort of: onto a pitching foredeck, no tether, no PFD. Very stupid, especially early season up Maine where the water can stop your heart in an hour.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,539
Weather, crew numbers and crew conditions should help guide us as to when tethering ones self to the boat may make sense. The story indicates they were sailing in heavy seas and strong winds. She was knocked down by the first wave and swept off the boat by a second. Sea and wind conditions made rescue difficult. Took crew over an hour to locate her.
As we venture out on the sea, give the sea her due and stay safe.
As we venture out on the sea, give the sea her due and stay safe.
"Rough conditions and poor visibility hampered the crew's efforts to find her. She was recovered about an hour later, and attempts to resuscitate her failed."
According to this statement, I don't believe she was alone. However, she wasn't tethered in as she should have been given the stated conditions. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay this tragic loss of life.
Also, "Organizers said her death was the second fatality in the nearly 20 years the race has been run. The first happened last year on the same boat shortly after the teams set off last summer." This statement alone should give one pause as to the ability of the crew. Very needless loss of life. Very sad. Let's hope there are lessons learned to prevent this kind of tragedy, again.
According to this statement, I don't believe she was alone. However, she wasn't tethered in as she should have been given the stated conditions. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay this tragic loss of life.
Also, "Organizers said her death was the second fatality in the nearly 20 years the race has been run. The first happened last year on the same boat shortly after the teams set off last summer." This statement alone should give one pause as to the ability of the crew. Very needless loss of life. Very sad. Let's hope there are lessons learned to prevent this kind of tragedy, again.
Modern Ocean racers are untethered all the time during maneuvers.
Unless you are sitting, being tethered is a total MESS of line with crew scrambling all over the boat. And falling off of a fast-moving ocean racer while tethered means almost certain death, drowned while dragging, or being snapped in two by the water pressure.
Modern SOP re going MOB counts on surviving the fall-off and staying alive until they get back to you tracking your AIS beacon.
I know a guy doing a leg this edition, and frankly he is a very average sailor. I've actually passed him up as crew for the 36.7 because I had better people to choose from. And yet he's on the clipper race. In my option this pay-to-play sailboat racing is the real danger. This guys biggest qualification was his checked cashed. I feel the the two fatal accidents have similar root causes.
I'm not saying do away with it. I'd just say frankly that you should expect a higher rate of accidents. This was the single most dangerous time on the boat.. A sail maneuver at night in breeze in a big sea state.
So the nature of the work makes tethering impractical. Then JOB ONE for each and every crew member is to STAY ON THE BOAT AT ALL COST.
Part of this can be coached. And you can learn from the pre-departure classes. But the rest is innate feel, and knowing your own abilities. And using sea-miles to feel and recognize the motion of the boat to know what is going to happen next. This is skill hard learned from time on the water. There are no real-short cuts.
It's dangerous business.
Unless you are sitting, being tethered is a total MESS of line with crew scrambling all over the boat. And falling off of a fast-moving ocean racer while tethered means almost certain death, drowned while dragging, or being snapped in two by the water pressure.
Modern SOP re going MOB counts on surviving the fall-off and staying alive until they get back to you tracking your AIS beacon.
I know a guy doing a leg this edition, and frankly he is a very average sailor. I've actually passed him up as crew for the 36.7 because I had better people to choose from. And yet he's on the clipper race. In my option this pay-to-play sailboat racing is the real danger. This guys biggest qualification was his checked cashed. I feel the the two fatal accidents have similar root causes.
I'm not saying do away with it. I'd just say frankly that you should expect a higher rate of accidents. This was the single most dangerous time on the boat.. A sail maneuver at night in breeze in a big sea state.
So the nature of the work makes tethering impractical. Then JOB ONE for each and every crew member is to STAY ON THE BOAT AT ALL COST.
Part of this can be coached. And you can learn from the pre-departure classes. But the rest is innate feel, and knowing your own abilities. And using sea-miles to feel and recognize the motion of the boat to know what is going to happen next. This is skill hard learned from time on the water. There are no real-short cuts.
It's dangerous business.
Jackdaw, I absolutely agree with your statement, however, Monday morning quarterbacking this would indicate that she was probably not alone in the cockpit and there were no maneuvers taking place. Would not, say, a six foot tether anchored in mid cockpit keep one from going over the side. Assuming, of course, that the cockpit is at least 12 feet wide. In this case, would that not be an appropriate application? Your opinion is valued.
OK I'll try and stay as based-on-whats-known as I can. And the boat would have set up watch-rules that cover this stuff.
Reports were they were finishing up reefing at night in approx 40 knots. Potentially dangerous stuff but typical.
In the cockpit, normally the SPEED team (trimmers and driver on watch) will clip in after the chaos.
The MANEUVER team (doing the sail etc) will might not; if they were off-watch and called up, will go back below off-watch. If they were on-watch they would go to the rail or or where ever the watch captain wanted the weight.
In the center of the cockpit of these boats there is a clip-on for cockpit crew. Placed so they can go side-to-side, but stopping so if you fell aft you would not reach the transom. On the picture below you can see the two d-rings with the dyneema running between them on the cockpit floor. Crew clip here and cannot fall out no matter what they they go!
The transition after the maneuver can be tricky... people moving around and its dark. The boat suddenly shifting can cause you to fall and then its all on you to stay on the boat. Mostly likely an off-watch crew helping the maneuver would go straight back below and not try and clip in. I'm guess it may have happened then.
Open transom boats are NOT that dangerous for people falling off. It is the first time I've heard if it happening. I've been on a ton of them and never felt like I was in danger of that. There is triple lifelines back there and it is no more risky that you going under the side lifelines. Some run webbing to keep stuff (and people I suppose) on.
Net-net, its risky and you can't bake all that risk out.
I very seldom race and am not all that familiar with open transom boats. Thank you for the clarification.
Very, very true. That's why we have our charterers sign a waiver. Not that it's quite worth the paper it's written on.
Yeah, thought the same thing as Jackdaw - these are novice sailors doing ocean racing in dangerous conditions on fast sleds. They paid to take the risk. Surprised they don't lose more of them. Testament to their skipper I suppose. Interesting Ms. Young was a member of the permanent crew having done several ocean legs. There are a bunch of participants in the Clipper Race who just do the in-port events. The current leg crossing the North Pacific is cold and brutal gale conditions. Cannot imagine managing a tourist crew in those conditions.
I try to learn something from a study of these sad events, on this one I convinced myself to purchase that that expensive personal AIS. The only reason Sarah Young was recovered and afforded a chance of survival was the personal AIS she was wearing. In years past she would have just been Lost at Sea. May her family and friends find small comfort in that.
I try to learn something from a study of these sad events, on this one I convinced myself to purchase that that expensive personal AIS. The only reason Sarah Young was recovered and afforded a chance of survival was the personal AIS she was wearing. In years past she would have just been Lost at Sea. May her family and friends find small comfort in that.
Very sad... I'm fan of racing is many forms but would never advocate it needs to be stopped because there is always risk and the participants accept that risk. In the end, with safety measures to mitigate risk, the benefits of yacht racing (and many other forms of racing) outweigh the risks.
Personally, outside of inshore and close to shore cruising or racing within a defined course, I probably will never sail alone. I've done tons of sports solo, like cycling and back country hiking... and it just isn't as fun without friends. I just see sailing as a sport where sharing with friends/crew has the greatest value. I know this sailor wasn't solo, I'm addressing the risk of single hand adventuring or racing.
Touching on what Jackdaw said about the circumstances of this particular event, i.e. in particular the 'pay to play' aspect... I've seen this first hand in other sports and the results are often fatal. I have several examples in Mountaineering (the Rock and the ICE kind), but most recently with GP Motorcycle racing. Rich guys write checks for very high powered motorcycles and think they can drag a knee like the rest of us who have been doing it on a shoe-string budget since we were 11 years old... Typically we spot these guys early and manage to keep them safe on the track by keeping them in the beginner group and followed closely by a coach. Occasionally one slips through the cracks and gets on the track with more advanced riders... they eat it bad and unfortunately end up taking other riders out when the bike slides across the track. It doesn't happen every day, but when it does the results can dramatic... Sadly there have been fatalities, but most often these occur on public highways when the rider has an even greater inflated ego after one track-day and ends up as road-kill. We all know as well it isn't just the rich 'pay to play' guys on Ducati's and MV Agustas doing this, the young guys on the cheaper Japanese bikes are the primary offenders.
Anyway, I hate to say it, but... I don't want to see ANYONE get injured or especially killed in any sport what so ever... but I really just can't have much sympathy for the 'pay to play' crowd seeking thrills and status in expensive endeavors that the mere mortals cannot afford. For comparison, a 'ticket' to climb MT Everest is north of $300K (last time I checked), and that mountain is littered with bodies...
Personally, outside of inshore and close to shore cruising or racing within a defined course, I probably will never sail alone. I've done tons of sports solo, like cycling and back country hiking... and it just isn't as fun without friends. I just see sailing as a sport where sharing with friends/crew has the greatest value. I know this sailor wasn't solo, I'm addressing the risk of single hand adventuring or racing.
Touching on what Jackdaw said about the circumstances of this particular event, i.e. in particular the 'pay to play' aspect... I've seen this first hand in other sports and the results are often fatal. I have several examples in Mountaineering (the Rock and the ICE kind), but most recently with GP Motorcycle racing. Rich guys write checks for very high powered motorcycles and think they can drag a knee like the rest of us who have been doing it on a shoe-string budget since we were 11 years old... Typically we spot these guys early and manage to keep them safe on the track by keeping them in the beginner group and followed closely by a coach. Occasionally one slips through the cracks and gets on the track with more advanced riders... they eat it bad and unfortunately end up taking other riders out when the bike slides across the track. It doesn't happen every day, but when it does the results can dramatic... Sadly there have been fatalities, but most often these occur on public highways when the rider has an even greater inflated ego after one track-day and ends up as road-kill. We all know as well it isn't just the rich 'pay to play' guys on Ducati's and MV Agustas doing this, the young guys on the cheaper Japanese bikes are the primary offenders.
Anyway, I hate to say it, but... I don't want to see ANYONE get injured or especially killed in any sport what so ever... but I really just can't have much sympathy for the 'pay to play' crowd seeking thrills and status in expensive endeavors that the mere mortals cannot afford. For comparison, a 'ticket' to climb MT Everest is north of $300K (last time I checked), and that mountain is littered with bodies...
Agreed! You pay your money, you take your chances. But, what would life be like without challenge or risk?
This is clearly a major-class racing machine; a Clipper 70 it says.
I have a female friend who was washed out of the cockpit of a SC 50 racing around San Nicolas Island (burrr cold out there), and then moments later was washed back in!! Not tethered either.
I have a female friend who was washed out of the cockpit of a SC 50 racing around San Nicolas Island (burrr cold out there), and then moments later was washed back in!! Not tethered either.
Last edited:
I'm not a religious person but, WOW! Talk about divine intervention. She's one lucky lady.
Interesting co-mingling of thoughts there.
I enjoy being out on my boat without anyone else. I love the getaway. OTOH, for many years I sailed, every Friday, come hell or high water (literally, sometimes) with a good friend, who has since retired to the mountains. I, too, enjoy both.
Best thing I've ever read (and those of you who know me understand that I don't use the word "best" almost ever): "Treat the edge of your boat like a 500 foot cliff." Along with one hand always attached to something, even when just going down below, knock on wood...
Pay to play has its inherent disadvantages, good post CD. Thanks.
I take exception to Jackdaw's comment. I completely agree with STAYING ON THE BOAT IS JOB ONE. This means TETHER. If it gets in the way of making the boat go fast, well, that's just the price you pay for being Safe. Tether in. Be safe. THEN worry about making the boat go fast. You might not win as many races, but you'll live longer.
druid
druid