When securing the middle part of a reefed sail -- at the reefing points -- what would be a good knot to use in case the tack or clew comes loose so that the main will not be shreaded? I know how to pop a reef knot but I am thinking some type of friction dependent slip knot would be better not requiring assistance from the sailor. Thanks, Yeto
- Status
Why is it called a reef knot?
Reef knots get their name from their preferred usage. Tying in reef points. I've never had a reef tack or clew fail, I don't see that a self releasing reef knot is needed to prevent damage in a highly unlikely event. If a boat has a problem with reefing lines coming loose, that is the problem that needs to be addressed, not the reef knots.
Reef knots get their name from their preferred usage. Tying in reef points. I've never had a reef tack or clew fail, I don't see that a self releasing reef knot is needed to prevent damage in a highly unlikely event. If a boat has a problem with reefing lines coming loose, that is the problem that needs to be addressed, not the reef knots.
Point well taken but . . .
. . . I still think that someone out there has a better way to secure a reefed sail. The best that I have been able to come up with is to tie an overhand knot around the standing end of the reef point line thus when force is applied the standing end slips out of the overhand knot. I have tried using parachute cord which seems to provide the right amount of friction and slip. Thanks for your help, Yeto
. . . I still think that someone out there has a better way to secure a reefed sail. The best that I have been able to come up with is to tie an overhand knot around the standing end of the reef point line thus when force is applied the standing end slips out of the overhand knot. I have tried using parachute cord which seems to provide the right amount of friction and slip. Thanks for your help, Yeto
Yeto, perhaps it would be better
to concentrate on finding a more better method of securing the tack and clew. The reef points are usually tied in after the tack and clew are secure and the boat is under control. Many sailor even slip the reef knots to make untying them easier.
to concentrate on finding a more better method of securing the tack and clew. The reef points are usually tied in after the tack and clew are secure and the boat is under control. Many sailor even slip the reef knots to make untying them easier.
A buddy's experience...
A friend of mine who chartered a boat in the Caribbean said the guy who checked him out told him not to tie off any reefing points. He said that if he did so, and tack or clew came loose and the sail was damaged, he would be liable for it. I figure he was speaking from experience.
A friend of mine who chartered a boat in the Caribbean said the guy who checked him out told him not to tie off any reefing points. He said that if he did so, and tack or clew came loose and the sail was damaged, he would be liable for it. I figure he was speaking from experience.
just to clarify
I have never had a problem with the tack or clew of a reefed sail. I just don't want to be standing in my cockpit one day looking at my shreaded main saying "How did that happen?" I am sure with the experience and talent on this forum there has to be a better way to secure the reef points -- even though I know reef knots are standard practice -- than using a reef knot. Thanks for all your help, Yeto
I have never had a problem with the tack or clew of a reefed sail. I just don't want to be standing in my cockpit one day looking at my shreaded main saying "How did that happen?" I am sure with the experience and talent on this forum there has to be a better way to secure the reef points -- even though I know reef knots are standard practice -- than using a reef knot. Thanks for all your help, Yeto
What I had recommended to me was bungie cords
They will neaten the sail, and if the worst happens (some idiot pops the clutch for the single line reefing system), they will stretch and break long before the sail gets damaged. Steve Alchemist C-320
They will neaten the sail, and if the worst happens (some idiot pops the clutch for the single line reefing system), they will stretch and break long before the sail gets damaged. Steve Alchemist C-320
Single Line
One way of reducing the tendency of individual reefing lines tearing the sail is to use a single length of line. Make one end fast at the goose neck and pass it round the loose part of the sail, including the boom if not a loose footed sail and through the first reef point cringle. Then go on to the next reef point cringle and do the same, finally making it fast at the clew end. Do NOT attempt to knot the line at the reef points. This way the tension in the various reef points gets equalised. Yes, I learned the hard way. Look at photos of old gaffers reefed and you will see the line is a spiral round the boom.
One way of reducing the tendency of individual reefing lines tearing the sail is to use a single length of line. Make one end fast at the goose neck and pass it round the loose part of the sail, including the boom if not a loose footed sail and through the first reef point cringle. Then go on to the next reef point cringle and do the same, finally making it fast at the clew end. Do NOT attempt to knot the line at the reef points. This way the tension in the various reef points gets equalised. Yes, I learned the hard way. Look at photos of old gaffers reefed and you will see the line is a spiral round the boom.
I'm with Donalex
I removed the short lines hanging from the reef points and just tread a shoelace sized (1/8") bungee cord thru the grommets and around the boom. My clue/out haul reef line is secured by a cam/friction cleat, it has never slipped, but the bungee gives peace of mind.
I removed the short lines hanging from the reef points and just tread a shoelace sized (1/8") bungee cord thru the grommets and around the boom. My clue/out haul reef line is secured by a cam/friction cleat, it has never slipped, but the bungee gives peace of mind.
The main on my
...Hunter 28.5 has a line running from a clutch at the gooseneck thru the boom, up one side of the leech and down the other where it terminates with a bowline around the boom. When I reef, I pull this line down to bring the aft cringle down to the boom and this line is held in place by a clutch. As insurance, I use a small separate piece of line run thru the cringle and around the boom to ensure that, if the clutch should slip, the sail would not come free. The forward reefing cringle drops over a reefing hook on the boom and I can't imagine it coming off of that. This allows me to tie the reefing lines in the sail itself (with a reef knot,of course...) and not worry about the possibility of the sail coming free and tearing or shredding itself.
...Hunter 28.5 has a line running from a clutch at the gooseneck thru the boom, up one side of the leech and down the other where it terminates with a bowline around the boom. When I reef, I pull this line down to bring the aft cringle down to the boom and this line is held in place by a clutch. As insurance, I use a small separate piece of line run thru the cringle and around the boom to ensure that, if the clutch should slip, the sail would not come free. The forward reefing cringle drops over a reefing hook on the boom and I can't imagine it coming off of that. This allows me to tie the reefing lines in the sail itself (with a reef knot,of course...) and not worry about the possibility of the sail coming free and tearing or shredding itself.
Sail ties -flat web style
I don't always tie off the inside reef points, but when I do, I use flat web sail ties. They are cut at an angle to give them a point for easier insertion through the grommet. I tie them off with a slipped reef knot or a plain bow tie. My friend in Florida uses sail ties also on his Island Packet, but be puts a loop in one end and doubles the other through it to give some purchase. Finally, he fastens it with a slipped half hitch. A reef knot (square knot)in flat web is difficult to untie, whereas a slipped knot holds quite well and can be released with one hand.
I don't always tie off the inside reef points, but when I do, I use flat web sail ties. They are cut at an angle to give them a point for easier insertion through the grommet. I tie them off with a slipped reef knot or a plain bow tie. My friend in Florida uses sail ties also on his Island Packet, but be puts a loop in one end and doubles the other through it to give some purchase. Finally, he fastens it with a slipped half hitch. A reef knot (square knot)in flat web is difficult to untie, whereas a slipped knot holds quite well and can be released with one hand.
- Status