I have looked over the internet published documents (without success) to get this information. Can anyone point me to a lead on these values?
Charles
Charles
Northstar TPPL Charge Profile
- Thread starter Charles Erwin
- Start date
Charles et al.,
What you are looking for are the charge VOLTAGES for absorption & float.
I know I have likely beat this horse to death but the battery type (in words on a charger eg; AGM, GEL, Flooded) is quite often pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is the batteries recommended absorption and float voltage.
Northstar batteries charge best in a marine application at 14.7V absorption and 13.6V float, same as Odyssey TPPL AGM's..
Soap Box:
As a group boaters really, really, really need to stop looking at the words or charge profile on a chargers pre-set list, and instead look at the VOLTAGES behind the words or word defined charge profile. AGM, GEL, Flooded, FDC etc. are words and they mean absolutely nothing without knowing the VOLTAGES behind those words. A flooded setting on some chargers will literally destroy some flooded batteries. An AGM profile on some other chargers will literally destroy AGM batteries.
One manufactures voltage for AGM will NOT always be the same as the next thus boat owners should only focus on the VOLTAGES the words represent. Sometimes you can also see different absorption times behind the words and this too is very useful information. For some AGM batteries you will be much better served using the FDC setting than an AGM setting but a custom setting will always better be able to match the manufacturers recommended absorption & float voltages.
For example Trojan's are best charged at 14.8V absorption & 13.5V float for a PSOC type of use (marine use is almost always PSOC). If an installed starting battery can also be charged at 14.8V & 13.5V then the charger can charge both even if one is flooded and the other AGM.
An ACR just applies the same charge voltages to each bank because they are charging in parallel.. This is really no different than most all so called "smart-chargers" which feature multiple parallel diode back-feed protected outputs. If the float voltage requirements are also the same, or very similar, then one charger can feed two different battery types without issue. All batteries should be charged temp compensated especially AGM's & GEL..
VOLTAGE (and time or timer algorithm) is the key not the words or a "charge profile" simply given a name or acronym..
While a smart charger may have outputs for "three-banks" most are still one charger with one single voltage setting used at a time. You can't for example put a GEL battery that needs 14.1V on output #2 and a Northstar that needs 14.7V on output #1 and then set the charger to FLOODED because you will cook the GEL battery. If you set it to GEL then you chronically under charge the Northstar and also ruin it.
Here is a prime example of ignore the words (Flooded, Sealed, AGM GEL) and focus on the recommended VOLTAGES
Here are some manufacturer suggested charging voltages:
AGM's - Which AGM Preset works?
Lifeline AGM = 14.4V & 13.4V = AGM Preset #1
Odyssey TPPL AGM = 14.7V & 13.6V = Neither AGM Preset
Northstar TPPL AGM = 14.7V & 13.6V = Neither AGM Preset
Firefly AGM =14.4V & 13.2V = Neither AGM Preset
Mastervolt AGM = 14.4V & 13.2V = Neither AGM Preset
Full River AGM = 14.7V & 13.7V = Neither AGM Preset
Rolls AGM = 14.7V & 13.7V = Neither AGM Preset
East Penn/Deka AGM = 14.6V & 13.6V = Neither AGM Preset
US Battery AGM = 14.4V & 13.4V = AGM Preset #1
Trojan AGM = 14.4V & 13.5V = Neither AGM Preset
As can clearly be seen this chargers AGM settings FAIL for 8 out of 10 AGM brands!!!!! This is why boaters should always focus on buying chargers that have a custom voltage setting. Please do not focus not on the words but instead focus on the voltages that the words are representing..
How about Trojan Flooded batteries? Which Flooded preset works for Trojan flooded batteries??
Trojan Flooded = 14.8V & 13.5V = Neither are ideal. So you use custom and set it at 14.8V and 13.5V
How about Deka / East Penn Flooded
Deka Floded = 14.7V & 13.8V = Neither are ideal. So you use custom and set it at 14.7V and 13.8V
* This is but one example of one charger but one that has 11 separate charge voltage settings to choose from PLUS a custom setting.. Some so called "smart chargers" are so dumb as to only have three options AGM, GEL or FDC.
What you are looking for are the charge VOLTAGES for absorption & float.
I know I have likely beat this horse to death but the battery type (in words on a charger eg; AGM, GEL, Flooded) is quite often pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is the batteries recommended absorption and float voltage.
Northstar batteries charge best in a marine application at 14.7V absorption and 13.6V float, same as Odyssey TPPL AGM's..
Soap Box:
As a group boaters really, really, really need to stop looking at the words or charge profile on a chargers pre-set list, and instead look at the VOLTAGES behind the words or word defined charge profile. AGM, GEL, Flooded, FDC etc. are words and they mean absolutely nothing without knowing the VOLTAGES behind those words. A flooded setting on some chargers will literally destroy some flooded batteries. An AGM profile on some other chargers will literally destroy AGM batteries.
One manufactures voltage for AGM will NOT always be the same as the next thus boat owners should only focus on the VOLTAGES the words represent. Sometimes you can also see different absorption times behind the words and this too is very useful information. For some AGM batteries you will be much better served using the FDC setting than an AGM setting but a custom setting will always better be able to match the manufacturers recommended absorption & float voltages.
For example Trojan's are best charged at 14.8V absorption & 13.5V float for a PSOC type of use (marine use is almost always PSOC). If an installed starting battery can also be charged at 14.8V & 13.5V then the charger can charge both even if one is flooded and the other AGM.
An ACR just applies the same charge voltages to each bank because they are charging in parallel.. This is really no different than most all so called "smart-chargers" which feature multiple parallel diode back-feed protected outputs. If the float voltage requirements are also the same, or very similar, then one charger can feed two different battery types without issue. All batteries should be charged temp compensated especially AGM's & GEL..
VOLTAGE (and time or timer algorithm) is the key not the words or a "charge profile" simply given a name or acronym..
While a smart charger may have outputs for "three-banks" most are still one charger with one single voltage setting used at a time. You can't for example put a GEL battery that needs 14.1V on output #2 and a Northstar that needs 14.7V on output #1 and then set the charger to FLOODED because you will cook the GEL battery. If you set it to GEL then you chronically under charge the Northstar and also ruin it.
Here is a prime example of ignore the words (Flooded, Sealed, AGM GEL) and focus on the recommended VOLTAGES
Here are some manufacturer suggested charging voltages:
AGM's - Which AGM Preset works?
Lifeline AGM = 14.4V & 13.4V = AGM Preset #1
Odyssey TPPL AGM = 14.7V & 13.6V = Neither AGM Preset
Northstar TPPL AGM = 14.7V & 13.6V = Neither AGM Preset
Firefly AGM =14.4V & 13.2V = Neither AGM Preset
Mastervolt AGM = 14.4V & 13.2V = Neither AGM Preset
Full River AGM = 14.7V & 13.7V = Neither AGM Preset
Rolls AGM = 14.7V & 13.7V = Neither AGM Preset
East Penn/Deka AGM = 14.6V & 13.6V = Neither AGM Preset
US Battery AGM = 14.4V & 13.4V = AGM Preset #1
Trojan AGM = 14.4V & 13.5V = Neither AGM Preset
As can clearly be seen this chargers AGM settings FAIL for 8 out of 10 AGM brands!!!!! This is why boaters should always focus on buying chargers that have a custom voltage setting. Please do not focus not on the words but instead focus on the voltages that the words are representing..
How about Trojan Flooded batteries? Which Flooded preset works for Trojan flooded batteries??
Trojan Flooded = 14.8V & 13.5V = Neither are ideal. So you use custom and set it at 14.8V and 13.5V
How about Deka / East Penn Flooded
Deka Floded = 14.7V & 13.8V = Neither are ideal. So you use custom and set it at 14.7V and 13.8V
* This is but one example of one charger but one that has 11 separate charge voltage settings to choose from PLUS a custom setting.. Some so called "smart chargers" are so dumb as to only have three options AGM, GEL or FDC.
Excellent dissertation. But
TPPL battery manufacturers limit absorption to a certain maximum number of hours - even if it is not yet time to reduce voltage for float. Odyssey 8, Northstar 4. So evidently maybe TPPL batteries do not well tolerate 'overcharging' so to speak.
So how does one turn off alternator charging when leaving the dock when batteries are 100% full thus to avoid overcharge. After all even external alternator regulators do not account for the fact that full batteries need to stay in float at dock departure and instead provide too high a voltage considering actual battery bank 100% SOC.
In any case what is the threat of overcharge in AGM TPPL as compared to other AGM designs?
Charles
TPPL battery manufacturers limit absorption to a certain maximum number of hours - even if it is not yet time to reduce voltage for float. Odyssey 8, Northstar 4. So evidently maybe TPPL batteries do not well tolerate 'overcharging' so to speak.
So how does one turn off alternator charging when leaving the dock when batteries are 100% full thus to avoid overcharge. After all even external alternator regulators do not account for the fact that full batteries need to stay in float at dock departure and instead provide too high a voltage considering actual battery bank 100% SOC.
In any case what is the threat of overcharge in AGM TPPL as compared to other AGM designs?
Charles
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