Northern vs Southern boats

[Recess]

I keep hearing people talking about how a Northern boat might be fresher because it is used less than a Southern boat. I was just wondering if there is really any credibility to that thought?

Another thing to conside is that Northern boats go through a freeze - Thaw cycle that boats in temperate waters do not. I was reading that the freeze thaw cycle can leave spider cracks in fiberglass and splitting of the fiberglass when a metal object is not properly installed through fiberglass.

What say you? Does one climate hold a significant advantage for the aging of a boat or is it the case that as long as you properly maintain the boat for the climate it resides, there really is no difference?

 

[Ctskip]

There's more to a boat than fiberglass

Northern boats are used half as much a southern boats. Less use, less wear and tear. Most northern boats, when "stored" for the winter, get a cover over and sometimes around it. Some get shrink wrapped and stored. A 10 year old northern boat might have say, 150 hours on the motor, where a southern boat might have 300 hours. Sails go up and down half as much, steps get used half as much. In general northern boats get used half as much as southern boats. There are exceptions, as there are too every rule.
Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[Brian D]

Unfortunately...

I have to say that the majority of what Ctskip is irrelevant. Even if the boat is used half as much, Recess makes a good point that it goes through more extreme cycles out of the water than say boats in Florida, Texas, or California. My preference, and purely mine, is a year round boat that has acclimated, and not been stressed by extreme weather.

Again, these are just my opinion.

 

[Brian]

Ultraviolet Rays

I think the most damaging source to fiberglass, wood, rubber, vinly, and upolstry is the UV rays. And also skin. Sincerely, Brian

 

[Ctskip]

How do you figure irrevalant?

Put in place of a boat, a car with 50,000 miles on its odometer, verses one with 100,000 miles on it. Which would you rather have? Irrelevant? I don't think so. A diesel with 300 hours on it, as opposed to a diesel with 150 hours on it. Wear and tear has everything to do with it. A piece of stainless can't acclimate, nor does cloth or lead or line. Has your anchor acclimated today? This year? Thats a good one. I sure hope my motorcycle acclimated from it's trip up north. Do you suppose I gave it enough time to do it's acclimation?
Lets look at a boat that's been covered on the hard for three years in say...Maine and one that's sat in a slip for three years in say Bermuda. Which one will be in better shape overall?

Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[Patrick , S/V Shangra-La]

Non use equals aging

Letting a boat sit can cause more problems than constant use. I'm sure in the spring, the nothern boats require a lot more maintence to get them back to sailing condition than our boats do, as we sail them weekly and we are always fixing as we go.

 

[Ross]

BrianD, Most of the time you write knowledgeably

But this time you missed. What extremes of weather do the most damage? Summer heat, humidity, and high angle UV radiation? Or winter cold and snow? I have never seen a piece of wood fail because it froze but I have seen much that has rotted.

 

[Mast Confusion II]

It de;pends

I am a Southerner from Alabama living in Chicago and have wintered my boat 3 winters here. I think it depends many people up in these climate do a lot to protect the boat from the winter weather. Professional covers, removing all the stuff off the boat and storing these things in dry climate controlled basements. Many of the individuals have shrink wrap or really nice winter covers made etc. The oil and filters are changed at the end of each season etc. If all this is done and keep in mind we sail in fresh water then these boats more than likely don't age as quickly as boats down South. If you let the snow pile up on your boat here then I think you open the door to damage from moisture and there is a lot of dirt etc. in the snow and ice.

I have been told that many people come up to the Midwest to purchase older boats because they seem to age better up here if cared for correctly. So I guess it depends on how careful the owner is about protecting the boat in the winter.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

I agree with Brian and Skip

UV really takes it's toll. I have traveled tremendous distances in search for a 'new' boat twice. I guess 800 to 1200 miles each way ought to qualify as a tremendous distance.
Anyway, there is an noticeable difference between similar boats with similar age in say Mississippi verses Florida. Florida boats always look more worn. I would guess that some of it is due to more UV exposure, greater salt content in the water and been through more adverse weather such as tropical storms. And this is pretty much along the same general latitude.
Any of you guys ever make a cold frame or temporary greenhouse in the winter up north with visquene? It lasts all winter. In the south, the visquene might make it a month or so in the winter before it literally falls apart. I have done both.

Now, as for more usage and wear and tear, Texans, like most other Gulf coast boaters step on and off their boats 2 to 3 times more than northerners. Raise and lower their sails more often, stress their rigging more often, etc. etc.

All of the above is from my personal observations and not from any scientific data.

Tony B

 

[letterman]

Salt vs fresh

Makes more sense. Our stuff lasts longer because it doesn't rust from salt air. Yeah, freeze thaw makes a difference, but if protected, that part of the equation is eliminated.
Those are the two differences I see.

 

[leftysailor]

Northern vs Southern

For what it is worth, the BUC book has an equipment and area price adjustment scale. It differs slightly between power and sail, but

BUC says for South Atlantic and FL deduct 5% from the published BUC price, for Great Lakes & Midwest, add 10% to the published price for sailboats up to 29' and %% for 30' and larger.

If a boat can be defined as in above BUC condition in terms of equipment and care, add 10% -15% to published prices. Bristol condition gets your 15% to 25% more.

In th current market I'm not sure it makes any sense to pay a price premium for a northern, fresh water boat; pay the thousands it takes to ship it to FL; put it in the warm, salt water and in 3 years it looks like every other FL boat.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Lefty

BUC says for South Atlantic and FL deduct 5% from the published BUC price, for Great Lakes & Midwest, add 10% to the published price for sailboats up to 29' This already equates to 15% difference.
Also, for example, a 20 year old boat in Fl. is of average condition (BUC condition) and the same boat in the Great Lakes would be above average condition because it is subjected to a less harsh environment. This would add another 10 to 15%. So, now we have a Great Lakes boat worth 30 to 35% more.
This would make the difference between, say, $100K for a Northern boat in avg. condition to a slightly more worn $65 to $70K Fl. boat. Actually, very few people would travel and move a 29' or less boat across the country. So there would actually be a bigger savings on larger boats.

I think there are also other factors that come into play. Floridians that want to get rid of a boat, REALLY want to get rid of it due to the very high marina prices. Cost of living differences would also come into play.

Tony B

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Lefty

Sorry. We were distracted by a fire alarm and had to grab our life jackets and muster on deck in the middle of T.S. Edouard. When I got back to my office, soaking wet (false alarm), I just signed out and forgot what my point was.
Anyway, different people do things for different reasons. Down on the northern Gulf of Mex, many of us end up buying boats in Fl. because they are initially cheaper. If done properly, an older Florida boat with a good capitol investment can bring its value up to the purchase price plus the investment. Hypothetically, when we sell the boat we can get most if not all of our money back. So, using the formulas that you posted, going to Fl. to buy a boat could turn out to be a good deal for someone living in Ms. or Tx.
Even so, the cost of moving the boat can be prohibitive, if you dont have the available time to do it yourself.
I think you are right when you said "in the current market I'm not sure it makes any sense to pay a price premium for a northern, fresh water boat; pay the thousands it takes to ship it to FL; put it in the warm, salt water and in 3 years it looks like every other FL boat." If I were looking to travel up north for a 'better' boat for more money, I think it would be wiser for me to buy a newer boat instead of a northern boat.
I dont know the rationale of the upper class, but for us working class, most of the people i know, including myself that have traveled far distances for a boat were more interested in that particular boat than just at random.

Tony B

 

[BobM]

Blisters

So far nobody has muttered the dreaded B word and I am fearful to mention it myself, however, it is my understanding that due to the fact that most northern boats are hauled and spend the winter on the hard in low humidity conditions they dry out and have less blistering issues in comparison to a boat that is in warm water year round. Of course, once such a boat, assuming this concept is correct, is moved south it will not prevent blistering from occurring if said boat was prone to it.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Bob M

I believe you are right although there are many theories about the cause of blisters. Surprisingly, no one else thought of that yet. I personally don't view blisters as a major problem, just a major pain in the a$$. This of course is relative to the degree of blistering. I have seen boats with a lot of blisters, but not to the extent that most refer to as 'pox'. I do however, don't think that a normal amount of blistering will affect value much, if at all. But it might.
Great catch

Tony B

 

[Ctskip]

I believethe original opening statement has been altered somewhat

Northern boats are used less, and all things being equal as far a preventative maintenanc goes, the boat that is used less will be in better shape and command more money. We all know a fresh water boat will be in better condition than a salt water boat, everything else being equal as far as maintainence. Salt water has effects that fresh water doesn't. Just as southern sunlight has a effect on a boat that northern boats don't get. In the south they sit in the sun year round where as in the north they sit half the time under wraps out of the UV rays from the sun. Plus a boat that sits in the water year round gets used year round. Where a boat that sits in the water 6 months a years gets half the use. A boat that sits covered and under wraps for half it's life will be in better shape than one that is exposed to the elements 365 days a year. The main reason for boats to be less expensive in Florida is because there are more of them and they sit in the elements all year long. Now, should a boat sit exposed to the elements year round anywhere will be in worse shape than one that has been under cover for half it's life. And that's not even considering the amount of use and abuse a year round vessel gets.
Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[Jim]

Sun eats you gel coat and canvas up

nasty stuff.

 

[Jim]

Recess I saw your boat

40 some ft Cat with 23 ft beam right? Nice, it was up here in NJ this week. Are you taken her to Maine?

 

[William]

Freeze - thaw

I think the freeze - thaw cycle is a bit over rated at least in this context. Yes it does get cold up here and it does even freeze. Truth is that we cover our boats for the winter and that keeps most of the water and snow off of them not to mention UV. They actually stay very dry over the winter.

I would also think that the small amounts of water that may get under a fitting would not be enough to break the sealant loose. It is after all flexible.

I think the bigger question is the effect of saltwater compared to fresh water. I would think that would cause a more rapid and predictable destruction.

All that being said I think a well cared for boat in the south will have a value close to a boat in the north and a neglected boat will be worth much less wether it is in the north or the south

 

[Recess]

Jim

I think I should notify the owner that if he insists on using my boat's name, that he will have to forefit that 40 ft Cat to me. Somehow I think he is a lawyer on Recess from court rather than a Teacher on Recess!