Norseman & Sta-lok

[Manny]

Anyone have positive or negative experiences using Norseman or Sta-lok fittings creating there own rigging? Are they difficult to use and are there any downsides?At the end of the day does it work out to be similar in cost to having a pro make up new rigging with swaged fittings?Manny

 

[Ross]

I replaced all of the standing

rigging , 1 forestay,1 split back stay, 2 upper shrouds and 4 lower shrouds. 1-19-- 1/4" Loos cable and all of the fittings and a Felco cable shear cost me about 1350 dollars 1997. Boat 30 foot Islander

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

20 years

If you replace a rig on a 27' boat using mechanical fittings you will spend much more than having the rig done with swage fittings. However, if you replace the wire every 10 years, being able to re-use the fittings will be much less expensive at replacement time.You might spend 1500 for the wire and fittings to do it yourself, and about 1000 for swaged rigging.At replacement times, you will spend another 500 for wire or another 1000 for a swaged set.So somewhere between two replacements and three, you start to save money using the mechanical fittings.Brion Toss likes mechanical fittings, the Cruising Club of America prefers swages. It is possible for either to fail through poor workmanship, it is rare for either to fail due to design.If you are looking at mechanical systems, look at the new Hi-Mod fittings. I think Hayn has them in the USA. They are designed to be easier to install than the Norseman or Staylok fittings.

 

[Ross]

Randy, You make no mention of labor

cost for replacing swaged rigging. Is that included in the $1000 figure for the rigging?

 

[Fred Ficarra]

One more factor to consider;

Mechanical fittings (any brand) have the ability to reside in a drawer on board your boat waiting for the time that they might be needed. A coil of the correct wire is easy to store in the bottom of a locker. When regular inspections reveal a failing component the solution is aboard. Very important to cruisers.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

One more factor to consider;

Mechanical fittings (any brand) have the ability to reside in a drawer on board your boat waiting for the time that they might be needed. A coil of the correct wire is easy to store in the bottom of a locker. When regular inspections reveal a failing component the solution is aboard. Very important to cruisers.

 

[Fred]

Norseman and Sta Lock are good but expensive

I have installed a couple of Harken roller furlers, which come with a sta lock so you can adjust the size of the forestay. There are probably thousands of these units out there working fine.Link below to a good rigging problems site.You may be able to get all your wire and turnbuckles replaced for less than you would pay for the wire and sta lock or norseman fittings. The Catalina list folks used to sing the praises of a company (South Coast?) that had good quality and service. They had a standard package for a Catalina 27As the previous poster said, it's a great idea to keep some connectors in a drawer for emergency repairs. Since the wire usually is good a few inches up from the fitting, you may not even need new wire to make a quick repair.For a quick repair, a big thimble and a couple of old fashioned cable clamps is not so bad either, along with a shackle and a few links of chain to make up the difference in length. The big thimble is necessary because most rigging wire is pretty stiff and you don't want to kink it. You can do a "Farmer Splice" over a thimble; unlay the wire with (for seven strand wire) four strands on one side and three on the other, then lay it back together in a circle with a tail sticking out. This is really easy. Then put an old fashioned cable clamp on the tail and the wire, and it's a prety darned strong splice. When I had hardly any money I rigged a whole boat this way and sailed her for ten years with no problems. I used nico press fittings to hold the tail. In this case you have to slide the nico fitting on the wire before you unlay the strands.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Without getting into details ...

I've done cost comparisons for several customers and I've found that the price of the wire and fittings for Norseman, Sta-lok, or Hi-Mod (DIY labour) is much higher than the cost of the same rig including swage labour.Mechanical fittings start making sense when you replace the wire the second or third time (assuming you pay yourself $0 for labour).The break even time/price changes with the size of the boat as the price difference between mechanical fittings and swage fittings is not constant.The biggest factor is turnbuckles. If you need new turnbuckles the price differential of the other fittings is a smaller percentage. For 1/4" wire Sta-Lok terminals are 3-4 times the price of swage terminals. Swage labour for 1/4" wire is $10 per swage in our shop, so the price including labour for a 1/4 wire 1/2" thread rigging stud is about $35.00 installed vs $82.00 for the same fitting in sta-lok with no install labour. IIRC the wire is about $2.40/ft. This makes a 40 foot 1/4" stay with an Eye at one end and a Stud on the other about $175 with swage fittings installed vs about $250 with Sta-Loks you have to install yourself. when replacement time rolls around you can spend another $175 or just $96 for the wire. Total is about the same for replacing the rigging twice.Prices are comparable up to about 3/8" wire, then it gets silly ... a Sta-lok stud for 7/16 wire has a retail price of $417! We just quoted a complete set of rigging for a 43' boat, cutter rigged (two furlers to replace stays inside of), with a split back stay and running backs. Customer has specified all new turnbuckles ... $5800 including the labour to disassemble the furlers and replace the wires. I would expect Norseman or Sta-Lok fittings to more than double that figure.I plan to carry one 1/4" wire with a swaged eye on one end, long enough to make up a back stay, shroud, or headstay and a Hi-Mod stud as a spare. Should give me a fighting chance to make a repair if I have to.As usual, Fred makes good points. His repair ideas are very good. If you convert turn buckles from Toggle/Stud to Toggle/Toggle or Toggle/Fork, you can use the same turnbuckle for the jury rig. This also allows eyes at both ends of the wires and reduces (marginally) the cost of rigging replacement.Randy

 

[Manny]

Wow!

Thanks everyone. When the time comes it looks like I'm going with swaged fittings. I'm probably not going to keep the boat long enough to justify the mechanical fittings (I probably will keep a set for emergencies though). In a couple of years I will get a case of 7 foot-itis...Manny

 

[Don]

Norseman

My experience has been with Norseman, which can be re-used. However, the cone inside has to be replaced when using new wire.

 

[Bob]

Another question

I'm going to replace my forestay this winter and have not yet done any Noreseman/Sta-Loc type terminals myself (though I do have a couple of them in my hardware box.) My mechanical skills are reasonably good - I run a small auto-repair business, do all the work on my boat, house, etc. I understand the process of attaching one of these fittings to wire cable. Yet the thought of trusting the rig to my first try at it is still just a little spooky. Any last minute secrets or techniques I should be aware of? Moody, is the Hi-Mod you speak of anything like the SunCor system I have seen that does away with wedges and uses just a washer?

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Hi-MOD install

Here is a link that shows how the Hi-MOD fittings go together. There is a video also.Link: http://www.hayn.com/marine/tech/himod/install.html

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

Sta-Lok terminal fittings

Manny, Good question, and swadged fittings are found cracked all the time and should be checked. Easily done even by a newbie who cannot afford a rigger or surveyor, Check out Brian Toss's "Complete Riggers Apprentice"I have been dismasted three times, and know of many that happened while I was cruising, one being Mr. North of North sails in Tahiti.I have used both, and prefer Sta-loks but Norseman are excellent fittings and both are superior to all pressed terminals.The epoxy terminals I don't know enough about from my own experience so cannot say, but they seem to work well on tugs and other commercial applications.Check your rigging throughly each year, at least. This means going aloft too.Good on ya mates...;-)

 

[Fred]

Bob, there is a secret so you're sure the fitting

will hold; FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS! It's remarkable how many folks look at the parts and proceed to put them together because it looks so easy, or they had the fitting in the drawer but no instructions.I had never seen the Hi Mod before (thanks Moody) but it looks like it may be the best of the bunch with the extra washer to hold the strands in place.