Non-Conformative Air Conditioning

[shipwreck66]

This is a question for the non-conformers in the crowd who don't want to drill additional holes in their hull. I've already asked this concerning evaporative air, and we now agree that works as long as you fill the boat with ice cubes first. Moving on, given that one has all the components of a window unit that can be broken down, where could the components of a standard AC be installed without disrupting normal use. I was thinking the forward anchor locker with the air being blown into the v-berth. Is this feasible? Phil?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Do you really want to put electrical, mechanical and metallic components in the wettest part of any boat? Not that you want this answer but I have 8 thruhulls and find nothing onerous about the existence or routine maintenance of them. Obviously opinions vary about security of thruhull but if they are of good quality, properly installed and maintained, there seems little benefit of trying to invent some atypical installation.

 

[Joe Diver]

I've often thought of the same thing. Take a small window unit, and break it down. Locate the condenser and main air cooler in one spot inside, put the pump and other stuff somewhere else. You'd have to solder insulated tubing in to extend it and have an AC guy pull a vacuum and recharge the system.....put the controls somewhere convenient, wiring would be easy.

 

[jrowan]

I can understand building a better mousetrap, but when a window unit is self contained, wiring is safely secured and compressor protected by the box cage, why reinvent the wheel? I do suppose that all those expensive 10 k BTU built in marine A/C custom jobs are really just using the same basic parts as a window unit. We used to have an expensive (used) Cruise Air hatch model A/C unit, & never used the darn thing because it was so heavy & bulky. Guess that's why people install the custom, permanent type systems. I may just buy a cheap $100 window unit, & have my wife sew a deflector cover to force the air down below from the forward hatch. That way U don't have to worry about condensation dripping & drainage.

 

[shipwreck66]

All right Joe, someone has the same idea. Why build a better mousetrap? Because old mousetraps are messy and snap your fingers. Being that it's 105 degrees and no one is sailing, I rattling the cage to see if anyone who knows AC units has any ideas. I spent the morning and afternoon tinkering inside the boat, with window unit on in rear companionway, and enjoyed the comfort. In the last 12 months I have dealt with several boats where AC thru hulls failed. In one case my wife thought it odd that one boat at dock was no longer pumping water out, which it normall always does. Guess what, it was still pumping in..... When I take the boat out for next bottom job I will be closing off the two head-related thru-hulls, plus the speedometer. Three unused potential sources of future grief.

 

[Joe Diver]

I why reinvent the wheel?

On my boat at least, it's a space issue...there's a huge difference between your Cat30 and my Cat25 space wise.

I've also considered under the companionway. The space in the quarter berth directly under the cockpit, at the base of the companionway is a good candidate. Right now I keep a toolbox and case of water there.

I've thought about installing one of those very small window units...they only measure 13x13x16 and building a surround for it. I could add a powered fan on an exhaust port to pull air around the unit and keep it cool. Extend the vents under the top step of the companionway.....relocate the controls and hardwire it in to the shore power A/C system. Installed AC unit, out of the way.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

In the last 12 months I have dealt with several boats where AC thru hulls failed. In one case my wife thought it odd that one boat at dock was no longer pumping water out, which it normall always does. Guess what, it was still pumping in..... When I take the boat out for next bottom job I will be closing off the two head-related thru-hulls, plus the speedometer. Three unused potential sources of future grief.

which speaks to the lack of periodic inspection and proper maintenance. Don't blame the thruhull, blame the owner.

 

[shipwreck66]

Not bad. Mine is a C27, not much different than yours except I have an inboard located under the ladder and under the cockpit. I have considered the port and starboard storage lockers but don't want the hot air blowing on me when I'm in the cockpit. I actually measured the unit you did and it will fit into the forward anchor, as is, with the front sticking out into the v-berth. However, this would necessitate messing with the bulkhead at rear of locker and would have to restrengthen to support the foredeck. Also, I'm not sure how to vent all the exhaust up and out other than a bilge exhaust setup. Heading out there in a couple hours to see how the icemaker is doing inside a hot boat, left it on overnight.

 

[Joe Diver]

As far as an exhaust fan, I'm thinking one of the higher powered household exhaust vent/fans....like the fart suckers in the bathroom.....adapt it to the need....

 

[shipwreck66]

I did add on of those Vornado vortex fans in the boat, really gives good air flow throughout and carries the window unit from the companionway into the v-berth.

 

[jrowan]

I have seen window units cut into the aft end bulkhead, next to the galley on a Catalina 30. I'll attach a pic I kept of one I saw online - I thought it was an ingenious idea & a tight squeeze. It was on a C 30 mark II which seems to have a lil more room in the galley than my 1980 mark I model. I wouldn't mind trying it, as it is just using wasted space, & the unit would not block the needed companionway or forward hatch. I'm always a lil wary of the a/c falling through the hatch & on my needed noggin at night.
Speaking of the exhaust heat, couldn't U make a custom exhaust hose out of HVAC flex duct, which is insulated, & just graduate the size of the duct to a smaller diameter, until it would force the heat out the vent dorade already built into the stern locker?

 

[shipwreck66]

I've seen that pic before, but never had it explained where exhaust went. Will have to measure to see if a C27 has enough room. Otherwise I agree it is wasted space. That flip up door gets virtually no use, I didn't even know it was there for the first few months.

 

[dparilla]

If you don't want to permanently mount an AC unit, try a freestanding one. You could fit one behind or next to the companionway or in the forepeak and duct the exhaust through a hatch. Worked on our oday 35 until we put in a permanent one.

 

[philwsailz]

I have seen window units cut into the aft end bulkhead, next to the galley on a Catalina 30. I'll attach a pic I kept of one I saw online - I thought it was an ingenious idea & a tight squeeze. It was on a C 30 mark II which seems to have a lil more room in the galley than my 1980 mark I model. I wouldn't mind trying it, as it is just using wasted space, & the unit would not block the needed companionway or forward hatch. I'm always a lil wary of the a/c falling through the hatch & on my needed noggin at night.
Speaking of the exhaust heat, couldn't U make a custom exhaust hose out of HVAC flex duct, which is insulated, & just graduate the size of the duct to a smaller diameter, until it would force the heat out the vent dorade already built into the stern locker?

I am looking at this option for my C-27 since I lowered my galley. I have a fairly large vertical wall now as a result of shrinking my galley, so this has some merit for cooling while in port. I see this as part of a larger system though, one that includes the ice chest, cold water pump and automotive heater core for cooling while on the hook away from shore power.

I do agree that the port lazz under the cockpit of some of our boats is largely unused, and can be vented by any number of means to work effectively as the exhaust side for a simple $100.00 WalMart Window unit.

 

[shipwreck66]

Ok Phil, help me out here. My wife is on me about "why nots" when it applies to mounting in the galley wall. My question is how will we vent the heat out of that compartment? Back to an original question, could we store, say, a Honda 2000 in the anchor locker providing it is secure? then bring it out to the bow pulpit when we want to run AC while bobbin and burnin on the lake. Again, this may not be feasible, and yes, this would not apply for offshore use, but many of us are lakebound for the near future.

 

[philwsailz]

Ok Phil, help me out here. My wife is on me about "why nots" when it applies to mounting in the galley wall. My question is how will we vent the heat out of that compartment? Back to an original question, could we store, say, a Honda 2000 in the anchor locker providing it is secure? then bring it out to the bow pulpit when we want to run AC while bobbin and burnin on the lake. Again, this may not be feasible, and yes, this would not apply for offshore use, but many of us are lakebound for the near future.

Lakebound here too, 'cept I am garage bound since there is not much lake at the moment....

'wreck, I see several options for removing the heat. Simply lifting the cockpit hatch would be one... Some fore-and aft pointing clamshell vents would keep air moving in there too. One could consider an active system, like with the bilge blower, although that will require current from the DC side.

As for running an AC off of a generator, one needs to consider the surge current of the compressor's AC motor starting. Whatever generator you have needs to be able to supply this peak demand, otherwise you will burn up the compressor, the generator, or both.

I think it feasible, and still an option for me to consider, but don't rule out the ice-powered cooling while on the hook. To me both units are part of a total engineered system. The AC powered AC for the dock where shore power is available, and then the ice/fluid/heat exchanger unit operating on DC to maintain temp...

 

[shipwreck66]

Put a quart of ice in evap unit this afternoon, topped with a gallon of water, BURRRRR. Very promising results. Will really consider the dual idea if I can mount the 110 unit out of the way somewhere. The evap unit is only 18x14x30 and can be placed just about anywhere. Having boat pulled after the 4th for bottom job and maybe a buffing on the sides. Probably won't hit water again till August. Too damn hot to be fun at 104.

 

[philwsailz]

'wreck-
Seriously consider moving to a heat exchanger. As long as you continue to use evaporation you will continue to pump moisture into your interior... I was just out in the shop and the walls were very warm as I saw 110 today in a moving car, so too hot to work, but really think the drying benefit of pumping the cool water through a heat exchanger rather than over an evaporate membrane will prove to be both cooler and drier.
When it cools off a tad I will get back to mad scientist work on moving the concept forward, but if you get a chance, go get a salvage heater core and start building your version. We have the rough plans already

 

[philwsailz]

Mybuddy beat me to it. Here is an ice-powered condensing air conditioner that uses ice as a cold source. It will dry the air, as it blows the air through a dry chilled heat exchanger rather than a wet evaporative membrane. No mold due to excessive humidity.

See what you can do with an ice chest, a plastic tote, an automotove heater core, a fan, some hose and a bilge pump?

 

[shipwreck66]

Nice, oddly, that's the same ice chest I was going to use. Mine gets hauled out tomorrow for bottom job, I'll get back to it after that.