NOAA more currents?

Nov 21, 2007
631
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
What's up with the NOAA Tides & Currents web site? I've had problems before, but this one makes me nervous! There is a survey, asking for feedback on their new "look and feel"... it's a map based interface, and I get a whopping total of three tide stations for the Puget Sound, and absolutely zero current predictions or data.

What do you think, should I take the survey?
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,400
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I would ask @jssailem about how he uses the NOAA and another link for Currents.

NOAA has made some really cool features for mariners.

We plan to show case a few on the
Weather and Forecasting

BTW feedback to NOAA is always a good thing.
Jim...
 
May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
I signed up to the NOOA Tides Predictor and got my usual graphs showing Amplitude and Time for the dates requested. What site are you using? I have my stations saved in My Favorites in the browser and go straight to them.
 
Nov 21, 2007
631
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
Whew! It's back! :thumbup:
I have the same site bookmarked (tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov). I've used it for years. But it's obvious that they're upgrading the system and interface. Even as I use it now, strange things come and go. The first time I followed @JamesG161 link, my browser tab and the alt text said "Beta", now that's gone. It looks like there may be some great new features for New York, Chesapeake Bay, and San Fransisco. But nothing that we'll see out here.
It seems faster, which is a good thing. It seems to require more clicks to get to the current graph that I want from the map, that's not a good thing. OTOH, I didn't have to scroll through a hundred or two other current stations to get to it either. Maybe it will just require my getting used to the new interface. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
NOAA's new site is faster and more graphical way of seeing the previous tables of numbers for tidal conditions. It is a good tool to get Weather, Tide and Current information.

It is by no means the only source for Tidal Current data. There are the usual regional booklets with the NOAA data tables, Deepzoom.com, and charting software like Coastal Explorer or Navionics that can aide you in safely transiting home waters or new ports of call.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,400
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Maybe it will just require my getting used to the new interface
In another thread we were discussing currents and @jssailem I have looked at his Deepzoom.com app.

You have to be careful about currents on NOAA. Sometimes they are estimated and not real current measurements.

Not many real current velocity instruments by NOAA.
Jim...

PS: Its about time you showed up, John.:p
 
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Nov 21, 2007
631
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
You have to be careful about currents on NOAA. Sometimes they are estimated and not real current measurements.

Not many real current velocity instruments by NOAA.
OK, I'll bite on that comment. Since every source that I've ever encountered (including NOAA) express a similar disclaimer, who would be a better source?

Aren't all current predictions estimates? I'm not sure if it was a disclaimer by Environment Canada, or someone else, but somewhere this summer, I saw a comment that barometric pressure can noticeably affect tides and currents (both levels and timing).

Let's turn this into a discussion about available tools for currents (in the PNW in particular), how to use them, and how to integrate them. It may even help to inspire (or terrify) some of the potential members of the Vic-Ga-Pa-Vic flotilla, next summer. ;)

NOAA has always been my benchmark for current predictions. If I'm going to trust anyone, it would be NOAA, over any other source that I have had access to. I agree, that today's NOAA system was faster. I don't agree that it was more graphical in the presentation of the data. The selection of the current station was graphical (from a map), after I was able to find the Current Predictions map. After clicking on the current prediction that I wanted, I was presented with yet another popup window, with currents displayed in a tabular format, which could NOT be printed. ...find a pencil and write it down, or screenshot it. This time through, I counted the clicks. It took me eight clicks on the map, to zoom in to what I wanted. Where as the previous interface took one click of my bookmark, granted... scroooooolllll through the list of more than 400 current stations for Washington, then a second click to get current predictions for the Tacoma Narrows. I WAS able to find the graphical presentation of today's currents in the new system by clicking on the More Data button (9), and then Current Prediction Data (10 clicks).

Deepzoom is awesome. But as a Mac user, I'm surprised that it still exists. I've looked for it at least twice, after it vanished from my usable universe following a software update several year ago. It also requires Microsoft Silverlight to run on my Mac, and that's yet another layer of compatibility and updates to keep up with. I thought Deepzoom did the best job EVER, of showing in graphical form just how unique the current through Deception Pass is. But, in the format that I was using it, it did not give me much useful data for trip and route planning (printable tables of data). Check that, I spent a lot of time scrolling through the animations trying to visualize my travel times and ETA at various waypoints of a journey.

I have a B&G chartplotter with Insight charts. It was relatively easy to find currents on the chart display, and get the predictions on demand while cruising. The accuracy of the predictions was usually suspect, and I would defer to my NOAA prediction if it was important (slack at Deception Pass). I should say that I HAD this system, because I have just recently installed Navionics on my Zues. Insight is still available, but I'm going to be using Navionics because it includes the Canadian charts that I needed.

Navionics is so new to me that I don't have a handle yet on how they present current information on their chart displays. I hope to get down to Olympia next week, so maybe I'll have a chance to find a couple of familiar current stations along the way and learn something new.

Canadian current table books have done a great job of teaching me more about currents. I don't mind that I have to buy them. They seem relatively straightforward to use. I haven't surprised myself, yet, in my limited cruising in the Gulf Islands. My biggest complaint right now, is that 2020 is not yet published, and I'm trying to plan for next summers cruise, now.

What I use... is everything that I can get my hands on. And I still get surprised, and caught. This years surprise was returning from the Gulf Islands to the San Jauns. I thought South Pender Island across Boundary Pass was no big deal. Until CBP gave the the all clear, and I headed east toward Sucia on an ebb current... the undersea ridges and valleys along Boundary Pass north of Waldren and Skipjack Islands had me bucking currents that were well beyond anything that showed up on my NOAA predictions or my chartplotter. But I kept looking... finally spotting yet another current 'anomaly' where the current arrow on my Insight charts suddenly pointed in the opposite direction between Sucia and Patos Island. I didn't hesitate to take that route, and finally picked up a little time on our way to Echo Bay on Sucia...

Currents. They happen, whether you know about them, or not.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
They happen, whether you know about them, or not.
Perhaps that is why they call them “Currents”.

Want some practice with Navionics? Try the Navionics Chartviewer Navionics ChartViewer
3D4748D4-9599-4B89-A94E-EBBD1AE9078B.png


  1. The clicking in the waters off of Point Wilson will set a marker.
  2. Clicking on the “?” Beside your marker will bring up an informational window.
  3. Choosing “Boat To” will Bring a detail window.
  4. Selecting the option “Currents” will identify the conditions around the boat.
  5. In our case it will be currents In Admiralty Inlet within 0.5 miles (south side of Inlet) and 1.5 miles (north side of Inlet) at Point Wilson.
I was trying out the feature. While information is there it was not Find it easy to access. It may require in App purchase.

This is not the case with Coastal Explorer. The information is quick to access and visually displayed on the Raster or Vector chart. As you change your time of arrival the chart adjusts the tidal current Making the arrow indicating the current larger or smaller and switching direction as the current changes. You can browse a specifice tidal location and get a wave chart showing the high and low tidal levels along with teh current speed. This is now or future date and time selectable. The data source is the NOAA data. The issue for Coastal Explorer is it is written for Microsoft Windows Platform. If you are a MAC user you need to run Windows on the MAC. I have done this and find it fully functional.

As an alternate for sailors in the Salish Sea, Waggoners guide markets a book called “Ports and Passes”. This is sourced real time data compiled with NOAA, data, Department Fisheries and Oceans Canada data, and Boating Skippers who share actual experienced tidal conditions.

Just like NOAA Tide predictions you can access Canadian data files online. Dodd Narrows - Tides, Currents, and Water Levels
Here is the chart data for Dodd Narrows. 2019.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@SoSound When I talk about ease of use I look at the simplicity of the GUI to provide the data at my finger tips..
Here is an example using Coastal Explorer software.

The first image is a locator. I selected Deception Passage as it is has a significant current and is recognizable to cruisers of the Sound.

I am using the Raster Graphics. It is a quick and easy change to Vector Graphics. I prefer the Raster as it is like the charts that I have used for years.

The Large red arrow in the middle of the Passage indicates the current. It is based on the NOAA data predictions and it changes size and direction based on date and time. The image was for 10:22 01Oct2019. I clicked on the arrow and up popped the visible window you see for the Current - Now. Location, Time, Current Speed, Condition (Ebb/Flood) and Direction of Current Bearing True, and Time of Next Slack are displayed. The graphic provides a representation of this data.
DeceptionPass CE Current.JPG
Clicking on the graphic will bring up the data in a browser view along side of the Chart. This provides more detail and the ability to display what if scenarios. What if I get there 30 minutes later what will the conditions be?
DeceptionPass CE Current1.JPG

But I am not going today on the 1st. What if I want to transit in the morning on the 5th what will the conditions be about this same time?
DeceptionPass CE Current5.JPG

This is simple. Just change the date or slide the browser graph over to the right until Sat, Oct 5 appears. As I do that everything changes. The arrow on the map changes direction and size. The depth of tide data changes both in Bowman Bay and at the Cornet Bay Boat Ramp gauge (the white/red triangle with the Tide value compared to MLLW).

This is a very interactive representation of the conditions. I like these features. They enable me to maintain situational awareness of the waters I am cruising.
 

JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,039
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
Great info, I'm struggling to get current data for my 'lake' which is actually a damned portion of the TN River called Lake Guntersville. Last trip out I did notice the current impact on us for the first time, it was always there of course but I'm starting to get better at my experience and can take time and notice these things now. In this case our return trip was against the current the whole way so we were slower and finally just fired up the motor and ran her all they way home.
 
Nov 21, 2007
631
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
This is a very interactive representation of the conditions. I like these features. They enable me to maintain situational awareness of the waters I am cruising.
I like it. I'd say that it helps with situational awareness while planning. Which is where I usually get either distracted or tunnel-visioned and miss something.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
JRT Take a look at the Army Corp Engineers log at the dam. They may have river flow data. Usually in CFS (cubic feet per second). You can do the calc to get MPH or KNOTS.

Here is a link with release data. TVA - Guntersville
Looks to be pretty steady release volume. Suspect there are different current flows based on different areas of the lake. Some places you will feel it others it wil be less noticeable. You can also get currents caused by wind. As a steady breeze builds it will induce currents in the lake piling the water up on a lee shore. These are most times not noticed unless the water is large and the wind storm is equally large.
 
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Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
Okay, I tried to find currents on the NOAA site and only found tides and in only 3 places. Do I need to get off my phone and onto a computer?

Ken
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
I noticed a symbol for air gap and searched near Annapolis. There is data for the bridge clearance. That would be the greatest advance in traveling the ICW if those troublesome bridges would have air gap data available for use.
 
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Nov 21, 2007
631
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
@Ken Cross that sounds like what I ran into at the beginning of this topic. But, what exactly are you asking? If you follow the map interface, even on my computer browser, there are only three tide locations in all of the Puget Sound (four, if you count Port Townsend). The listing of stations still exists, but I had to go through the menus starting with "What We Do" at the top of the page. Here's a link; Tide listings. Maybe it is time to provide some of that feedback on their new "look and feel".
 

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Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
@Ken Cross that sounds like what I ran into at the beginning of this topic. But, what exactly are you asking? If you follow the map interface, even on my computer browser, there are only three tide locations in all of the Puget Sound (four, if you count Port Townsend). The listing of stations still exists, but I had to go through the menus starting with "What We Do" at the top of the page. Here's a link; Tide listings. Maybe it is time to provide some of that feedback on their new "look and feel".
I found tides but not currents.

Ken
 
Nov 21, 2007
631
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
Here are the currents listings. To navigate to them on the web site; go to NOAA Tides And Currents, the What We Do menu, Currents, NOAA Current Predictions. That will get you to the list of regions and states. There is also a link on the Regions page and the Washington page that will take you to the map which displays current stations (once you zoom in to our region).
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
Here are the currents listings. To navigate to them on the web site; go to NOAA Tides And Currents, the What We Do menu, Currents, NOAA Current Predictions. That will get you to the list of regions and states. There is also a link on the Regions page and the Washington page that will take you to the map which displays current stations (once you zoom in to our region).
Thanks. I'll have a look

Ken