No Shore Power on Board

[BlowMeAway]

All I wanted to do, while visiting the boat today, was tune the rigging, install the boom and mainsail, recharge the batteries with shore power, purge the antifreeze and refill the tank with fresh water...as well as a bit of deck and salon cleanup. I plugged the ship to shore power cable into the dock pedestal then into the boat inlet, and low and behold...nothing on board. No AC power. Batteries were already a bit low, but the boat was successfully motored to it’s slip so a bit in reserve on the DC side.

My AC/DC panel looks like this from front...

So out comes the multimeter and I test everything from the dock pedestal back to the cabinet. 120V AC all the way back to the cabinet. Pedestal’s good, extension cord good, 120V AC into cabinet. Even removed the male end of the boat plug from the port sidewall, and probed the leads coming into the boat. All good, voltage everywhere.

So I shut off the power at the dock pedestal, and went back to rudiments. Probing between the terminals of the main AC breaker...switch on 2.1 ohms, switch off open, breaker switch good.

Then I noticed a device, directly below the main switch on the panel, which had the “hot”AC lead connected from the exterior input wires, with no toggle, no switch, to a buss bar of the remaining switches ...and a distinctive gap on the front panel.

What is this? Can I get another new one? Labeled as unknown component in the image below.

This component reads open in power on or off. Infinite resistance, even after tapped with a screwdriver. No reset options apparent. What to do?

On another favorable note I met Michael Brazil @Brazil today at Cayuga Lake. All I can say is Hunter Sailboats rule...with the exception of the electrical matrix and PO modifications that are stupid. I’m one of those inheritants.

 

[BlowMeAway]

Oh yeah, toggle breakers are mostly Airpax, with a few substitutes from Ancor.

 

[kloudie1]

The unknown component might be a Reverse Polarity trip..

 

[uncledom]

You really need to get rid of the solid copper wiring and change it out to stranded tinned copper as is proper on a boat now a days. The AC main is actually two poles or legs, one for the Neutral and one for the Hot lead. They should both have continuity/no continuity depending on the position of the main breaker switch on or off. The SBO store should know the part.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I'm wondering why you didn't simply remove the unknown component to identify it or at least describe it here. Alternatively, we can play the guessing game further.

 

[capta]

Really not a good picture, but perhaps it is a double breaker with a single toggle. Normally, AC brealers have double breakers with double toggles barred together, but this may be a Hunter thing?

 

[BlowMeAway]

Thanks fellas, I’m not overly motivated to rebuild the whole panel or replace all wiring at this point. Simply want to swap out the main switch. After a lengthy online research process this morning I narrowed the search down to a dual pole, single toggle, 15A, 240v max, Airpax Breaker. Shown below.

$35.00 on E-Bay, arrives next Friday. I appreciate your inputs. The unknown component is actually two single pole units, having their trip mechanisms internally coupled, it is available with either a single toggle handle or with a handle per pole.

 

[jon hansen]

since b.m.a. is happy. i have a question. why do you say to strip the boat of solid copper wire? and who says this? why is stranded tinned copper better? who says that? my boat is 52 years old. got all solid copper. it all works still. should i strip it all out? am i in danger?

 

[uncledom]

I said it. It is an ABYC standard currently. Solid wire has a tendency to break over time if it is constantly vibrated and stranded wire is much less prone to that problem. Tinned copper is much less prone to oxidation also. You might notice any where even a drop of salt water has landed on a connection, and this includes high salt humidity, it turns green. Oxidation reduces the outside diameter over time. There might be other reasons I am not aware of happening also.

 

[jon hansen]

thank you for your answer u. d.

 

[jon hansen]

after 52 years and no breaking i'm thinking that this is proof that i don't have any vibration issues. of those 52 years the vessel has been in saltwater only 12. so i'm thinking up here on the lakes i'm good to go and if i do go back to salt i prolly have allot of years before i need to switch out all the wires.

 

[Rick Webb]

The wire should be changed out

Sometime in the next 52 years

 

[jon hansen]

noted

 

[Mohawk Jack]

Hope this helps. Better yet talk to Jim at FLBC.

 

[BlowMeAway]

Hey there @Mohawk Jack

I’ll attempt the breaker swap, as I’m fairly certain that’s the issue. If that fails then off to FLBC. Are you back from San Diego? Cindy and I will be up on the 30th for an extended weekend through the 4th. Hope to see you there.

 

[capta]

since b.m.a. is happy. i have a question. why do you say to strip the boat of solid copper wire? and who says this? why is stranded tinned copper better? who says that? my boat is 52 years old. got all solid copper. it all works still. should i strip it all out? am i in danger?

Electricity runs over the surface of the wire, not through it. I don't remember when "they" figured this out, but it was fairly recently in the history of electricity. Therefore, many thin strands are going to carry more electricity with less resistance on their surface area than a single strand, and tinned wire will have more resistance to corrosion (read resistance) than uncoated copper wire.
I wouldn't worry about vibration on an auxiliary sail boat, but on high-speed motor vessels such as war ships, it could be a factor. I also wouldn't worry about changing it out unless you have a bunch of high load circuits, in which case all this would be much more important.

 

[jon hansen]

capta, you may not be correct in that broad statement. i'm a curious guy as i think you are. i read that ac current may be more on the surface and dc runs through the wire. still not sure i called one of my little brothers. why him you might ask. 1st in his class at cornell electrical engineering. 1st in his class stanford electrical engineering post grad work. works at JPL as an inter planitary communication specialist. he said that his work is with very low voltage stuff. he said he would call a buddy that does harness work at JPL and get back to me soon.

as far as my boat, the old alden. i still carry blocks of ice down the dock. part of the fun of an old vessel are the old systems we still use. i often call aeolus an old camper. where as most modern sailors want a condo. just like you would not put AC in 1929 duesenberg, that would be a violation.

 

[capta]

capta, you may not be correct in that broad statement. i'm a curious guy as i think you are. i read that ac current may be more on the surface and dc runs through the wire. still not sure i called one of my little brothers. why him you might ask. 1st in his class at cornell electrical engineering. 1st in his class stanford electrical engineering post grad work. works at JPL as an inter planitary communication specialist. he said that his work is with very low voltage stuff. he said he would call a buddy that does harness work at JPL and get back to me soon.

as far as my boat, the old alden. i still carry blocks of ice down the dock. part of the fun of an old vessel are the old systems we still use. i often call aeolus an old camper. where as most modern sailors want a condo. just like you would not put AC in 1929 duesenberg, that would be a violation.

I sailed a 1909 Wm. Hand gaff ketch for 5.5 years through the South Seas. Other than the cassette stereo, an absolute necessity for hippies @ sea in the 70's, the only electricity on the boat was the chart table light, so I understand completely! Even the binacle was lit by kerosene lamps.

 

[uncledom]

AC does indeed run on the surface. Many high voltage yards actually use tubing rather than wire to carry current to and from transformers. It needs less support, it costs less, and it does the same job. At transmission level stuff not much has insulation other than air gap.

 

[Ken Cross]

AC does indeed run on the surface. Many high voltage yards actually use tubing rather than wire to carry current to and from transformers. It needs less support, it costs less, and it does the same job. At transmission level stuff not much has insulation other than air gap.

It depends on the frequency whether or not the current flow is restricted to the exterior of The Wire. That's why many radars use waveguide. They eliminated the interior of The Wire all together. At low frequencies, AC probigation is about the same as DC. That is why stranded wire in a given gauge and solid wire of a given gauge have the same ability to conduct current in normal 60 hertz circuits.

Once you get up into the gigahertz range now you have to worry about the surface of the conductor.

Ken