Nitrogen Fill in a dinghy
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You guys are funny !
Nitrogen fill does have the effect of less pressure loss over time for the reasons mentioned above. Oxygen and moisture have degenerative effects, but the oxygen and moisture AND sunlight are unrestrained on the outside.
Helium is a small molecule, that's why it's lighter, and would lead to more pressure loss by permeating through the dinghy skin. Also, the dinghy blimp would suffer damage from striking hardware as you tacked.
I think filling with Nitrogen, when available is a small but positive act on the dinghy condition and usability.
Nitrogen fill does have the effect of less pressure loss over time for the reasons mentioned above. Oxygen and moisture have degenerative effects, but the oxygen and moisture AND sunlight are unrestrained on the outside.
Helium is a small molecule, that's why it's lighter, and would lead to more pressure loss by permeating through the dinghy skin. Also, the dinghy blimp would suffer damage from striking hardware as you tacked.
I think filling with Nitrogen, when available is a small but positive act on the dinghy condition and usability.
RE:Helium
The dinghy would serve the same purpose as an anchor sail
Towing it going down wind would be a challenge, might have to fly it from the bow
I wonder if it would need FAA registration?
The dinghy would serve the same purpose as an anchor sail
Towing it going down wind would be a challenge, might have to fly it from the bow
I wonder if it would need FAA registration?
Nitrogen does expand and contract a lot less due to temp than normal air. It is used in jet airplane tires for that reason. I have first hand knowledge that it works the same way in passenger cars. We have installed it in thousands of cars and it dramatically reduces customer returns do to TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system) lights. We don't charge for it, it's purely a customer service issue and it has worked.
I have tried to put it in my caribe dinghy but because you must first evacuate the air a solid connection to the valve has illuded me. I did not try really hard though.
Scott
I have tried to put it in my caribe dinghy but because you must first evacuate the air a solid connection to the valve has illuded me. I did not try really hard though.
Scott
Once again the FACTS;
ALL gases, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, oxygen, water vapor, etc., expand and contract with temperature and pressure the SAME.
Nitrogen is used in racecars, etc., because it LEAKS less through rubber than oxygen. even though its molecule is SMALLER than oxygen's molecule, the permeability of rubber is significantly greater to oxygen than it is for nitrogen.
Uhhhh.. Here is a report from Consumer Reports;
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-air-loss-study/index.htm
There was slightly more loss of pressure in an air filled tire, versus nitrogen fill, after 1 year.. Thing is no one has done a test on Hypalon or PVC to see if it is the same. Inside tires (tyres?) there is a thin skin inside made of a special synthetic rubber that reduces permeation.. Without test data at 3 psi (roughly dink inflation pressure) there is no way to know which gas would permeate more. There is no coating inside the dink chambers other than the stuff the shell is made from.
Edit; With the temperatures and pressures we are talking here, nitrogen and air behave almost identically (according to the ideal gas law) ; the difference is not measurable with our standard gauges and techniques..
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-air-loss-study/index.htm
There was slightly more loss of pressure in an air filled tire, versus nitrogen fill, after 1 year.. Thing is no one has done a test on Hypalon or PVC to see if it is the same. Inside tires (tyres?) there is a thin skin inside made of a special synthetic rubber that reduces permeation.. Without test data at 3 psi (roughly dink inflation pressure) there is no way to know which gas would permeate more. There is no coating inside the dink chambers other than the stuff the shell is made from.
Edit; With the temperatures and pressures we are talking here, nitrogen and air behave almost identically (according to the ideal gas law) ; the difference is not measurable with our standard gauges and techniques..
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As pointed out previously that gases do act the same as per the Ideal Gas Law and Charles Law. Nitrogen is only very slightly more permeable when compare to air as pointed out by the control flawed Consumers Report study. But ignoring that, the slight difference in permeability test was conducted at normal tire pressure. The differential pressure of dinks at 2-3 psi make the difference even more negligible.
Gases will expand with heat. That is why in the middle of the afternoon on a hot day your dink is rock hard and soft in the morning. I don't know about your dinks but mine has a pressure relief valve to keep it from coming apart. Essentially it wouldn't matter what kind of gas you fill it with its going to leak through the relief valve anyway.
Thanks splax for speaking up this whole thread is filled with hot air. It's no wonder we rank 24 in the world in Science. I would use percentiles but we rank 31st in Math.
Gases will expand with heat. That is why in the middle of the afternoon on a hot day your dink is rock hard and soft in the morning. I don't know about your dinks but mine has a pressure relief valve to keep it from coming apart. Essentially it wouldn't matter what kind of gas you fill it with its going to leak through the relief valve anyway.
Thanks splax for speaking up this whole thread is filled with hot air. It's no wonder we rank 24 in the world in Science. I would use percentiles but we rank 31st in Math.
T
Answer. You couldn't measure it in the field. Lower your tone of voice and subsanciate your possition.
Yes, there are differences. The important ones, I'm sure, have to do with water absorbed in or codennsed in side the tubes' not non-ideal behavior. N2 is dry and could help there... or simply dry air. I'm a ChE and use N2, but not for this. A fun thread, just a bit of fluff.
OK. Test question. At the pressure range under dicsusion, how large is the non-ideal deviation between air a n N2?
Answer. You couldn't measure it in the field. Lower your tone of voice and subsanciate your possition.
Yes, there are differences. The important ones, I'm sure, have to do with water absorbed in or codennsed in side the tubes' not non-ideal behavior. N2 is dry and could help there... or simply dry air. I'm a ChE and use N2, but not for this. A fun thread, just a bit of fluff.
Can I buy that nitrogen mix at Wal-Mart? I'd like to give it a try in my dinghy if it's cheap enough.
LMAO, I just came in from cleaning the pool this morning and found this. My dad was a Rocket Scientist at JPL and I was just a high school Biology/Astronomy teacher, does that count.
I can dry some out for you and ship it to you in an envelop for $0.25/cf. Just add regualr air to it and it is ready to go. Let me know how you much want (it doesn't go bad), your shipping info, and of course your credit card info.
I can dry some out for you and ship it to you in an envelop for $0.25/cf. Just add regualr air to it and it is ready to go. Let me know how you much want (it doesn't go bad), your shipping info, and of course your credit card info.
Sounds like a good deal. But maybe you should wait; West Marine is rumored to be working on a marine version.
That marine verison stuff is just a way to get more money out of you. Mine is certified organic and green for the environment!
Earlier today I perfected a new version that I can email to you in an attachment.
Order in the next 24 hours and I will double your order for free and include free electronic shipping!*
* just pay a small fee for processing and handling
caguy and thinwater,
I appreciate your input. This discussion was light-hearted with much tongue-in-cheek commentary. Since we all want to do the correct thing, accurate facts are keeping with the spirited discussion, but not a pissing contest of who is more knowledgeable. I hope that I did not come across that way, I only meant to discourage universal statements.
Of course, for this application the difference in pressure between different gases' response to temperature is negligible. I hope I did not imply that it would be significant.
I appreciate your input. This discussion was light-hearted with much tongue-in-cheek commentary. Since we all want to do the correct thing, accurate facts are keeping with the spirited discussion, but not a pissing contest of who is more knowledgeable. I hope that I did not come across that way, I only meant to discourage universal statements.
Of course, for this application the difference in pressure between different gases' response to temperature is negligible. I hope I did not imply that it would be significant.