Nissan, Honda, Yamaha or Mercury?

[ftp2leta]

Like suggested by other i will start a new thread.

So hi! first post here.
I just bought a rare mint 1983 Hunter 20 from my friend in NC. I should get the boat soon.

The boat as an old 2.5 2cycle engine but i want to get a 4cycle, I'm gonna be sailing on the mighty St-Laurent river (Montreal) next year and I want a bit more power (to cope with current) and mostly i want a more silent runner. The St-Laurent is also a busy river with giant merchant ship that won't stop for me I want and need reliability.

I could get a new engine but I'm a mechanic and shop owner and I don't do brake but only engine restoration/conversion so i know my way around engine. But sadly most older engine are 2 cycle. I found a few used engine locally including a nice 1995 5hp Nissan 4s with reverse. I did a search to find some review or comment on this one but found nothing. I wonder about it's reliability and part availability?
I'm just afraid that Nissan is not as popular as other make (parts).

The other option is to buy a new one. I can easily get a small loan. There is also plenty of 1-3 yo one. I know about Honda and Yamaha reliability but know nothing about other make like Mercury.

My last and other question is how many HP. I mean i understand the formula of 1hp per 1000 lbs but my friend told me that the boat could use more HP on bigger river. That said, he is not sure how much more? Is 9.9hp to much??? What about a Yam 6hp? I mean my question should be: What is the difference between let say a 5hp and a 9.9 on a 20foot sailing boat? Will the 9.9 get me "out of there" quicker?

Thanks a bunch. I'm all excited about sailing. The H20 as a retractable keel so i plan to sail in many different places including Florida and the great lakes.

Cheers, Ben
http://www.benplace.com
ps.: sorry for my basic English, i'm French speaking.

 

[petersea]

The real question is how much engine will the transom safely support. See if there is some sort of rating for the weight you can mount on the boat. Most 4 strokes are sustainably heaver then there 2 stroke counter parts. I would put the largest engine the transom can carry. You may have to re enforce the engine bracket even due to weight. If I remember correctly the Mercury and Nissan are the same engine, so parts might not be a problem. Most new small engines are pretty good so maybe having a local dealer close may be helpful. All are good engines so go with price and convenience.

 

[Paul Brinkley]

Hi, Ben. I have a 26' boat with a Mercury 9.9 2-stroke. It pushes my boat to hull speed at about half throttle. Probably 6-8 hp would be more than adequate for your 20' boat. My Mercury runs like a top and always starts on the 1st or 2nd pull. I had a 20 hp Mercury on a fishing boat 45 years ago and it ran well, too. I think most any name brand today should give good service, but I've no personal experience with 4-strokes. Hope you enjoy your boat. -Paul

 

[Ron20324]

If you have to fight river currents, I'd go with an 8, and the Honda is a good choice. Get at least a long shaft- preferably an extra-long shaft. The Honda has a built-in charger and a nice-sized prop compared to 2-strokes..

 

[BobM]

Sorry Ron, but I think 8hp (~100lbs!) is overkill on a 20 footer. I'd max at 6hp and try to keep the weight down. Make sure you get a solid articulating mount or dragging the engine will ruin light air performance. I don't know much about current where you are, but if the 2.5hp isn't adequate definitely go bigger.

Nissan and Tohatsu are the same engine and make popular and reliable long shaft sailboat engines. Mercury is the cheapest typically, but I don't know about its reliability.

 

[Ron20324]

Sorry Ron, but I think 8hp (~100lbs!) is overkill on a 20 footer. I'd max at 6hp and try to keep the weight down.

"I'm gonna be sailing on the mighty St-Laurent river (Montreal) next year and I want a bit more power (to cope with current) and mostly i want a more silent runner. The St-Laurent is also a busy river with giant merchant ship that won't stop for me I want and need reliability." Was Ben's requirement.

My B23 came with a 6, 2-stroke. When I saw the 8, 4-stroke and its larger prop, i went with it. The XL shaft and charger were a plus. Sure, maybe a 6, 4-stroke would cut the currents.

 

[ftp2leta]

First, thank you! The more i read and the more I'm convince that a 5-6hp 4 stroke would be enough. I fully agree on the weigh problem of 8hp and more. The marina i plan to put the boat next year is just beside the main seaway (i need to get away from there) so i think that engine will see some hard work. I will go see that mint 1995 Nissan 5hp. If it's not up to my standard (don't forget that I'm a mechanic) for the price, i may go with a 6hp Yamaha. I'll keep you guys up to date.

 

[Honeyman]

Yamaha for me as far as reliability and ease of starting. If you deal with gas with any ethanol %, I'd even consider going 2 stroke. Had an 8hp, 2 stroke, 2 cyl. Yamaha for 8yrs. on a 23.5 that ran like a clock and NEVER took more than 2 pulls, almost always started with one.

 

[som1335]

Save yourself some money and get a Tohatsu, they make Nissan and Mercury. Same motor different paint and a lot less $$ Got my 9.4 HP new for $1650 delivered to my door.
Mike

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

My h23 (rated displacement 2450 lbs) came with a nissan 5hp longshaft. Very reliable and plenty of power to push us up to hull speed. Because its a 2-cycle, its not overly hard to carry or mount. Generally starts on one or two pulls. My 2-cycle mechanic told me that it was developed for use by small commercial fisherman in the China Sea and that that it was very tough and reliable. I think you'll get excellent performance from the "mint 1995 Nissan 5hp." Good luck and have fun.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[ftp2leta]

My h23 (rated displacement 2450 lbs) came with a nissan 5hp longshaft. Very reliable and plenty of power to push us up to hull speed. Because its a 2-cycle, its not overly hard to carry or mount. Generally starts on one or two pulls. My 2-cycle mechanic told me that it was developed for use by small commercial fisherman in the China Sea and that that it was very tough and reliable. I think you'll get excellent performance from the "mint 1995 Nissan 5hp." Good luck and have fun.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

Hi again, thanks for your comments. The Nissan 5hp is a 4 stroke. The Hunter 20 as a hull displacement of 1700 lbs. My friend tell me that the 2.5 hp 2 stroke id super fine in lakes but could be a bit underpowered for stronger current. 5hp make sense to me. I went to a Honda dealer tonight after a very long and hard day at work, it was a good day money wise, i had almost 2K$ in my pocket... i almost bought the Honda 8hp. But when I tried to lift this one... the weight caught me by surprise. It's not that bad but it's 100lbs.

As a mechanic i love Honda product, i think they are one of the best engine company, still, they are a bit overprice compare to the competition.

I'm in no real hurry. Sadly, today on a local listing a Honda 9.9 2000 came up for 900$. Again, sadly, the 9.9 seem like its to big for my small boat.

What to do???? Is a 9.9hp really to big? It's heavy for sure.

As much as this boat will sail, i want this one to be polyvalent/multi purpose, if i want to take it out on a calm night (no wind) and go see the firework (it's a local thing!) i want a good engine.

Again, thanks for all your comments.

Ben

 

[RichBone]

For a 20' Boat 9.9 is way too big.
Current or no, you're still limited by hull speed-
http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__hull_speed.htm
Besides all that weight off of the transom can affect performance and the motion of the boat.
Suzuki makes a 6hp two stroke-
http://www.suzukimarine.com/sr_09/df6-4-2.5/features/

This is a major investment. Take your time and do some more research.

 

[Joe Blizzard]

My 86 Gloucester 20 is similar in size and weight to your Hunter and I sail on a river with a fair amount of commercial traffic. My motor is a 91 4HP Yamaha 2 stroke. (4MLHP)
At half throttle I'm at hull speed or better, and anything above half produces more noise and waves with maybe a slight increase in speed. It makes some sound but I can't imagine a 4 stroke being significantly quieter. My mount offers no mechanical assistance when raising, but at 40 pounds it's not too difficult. And at 100:1 I probably use less oil than an equivalent 4 stroke, if you take oil-changes into consideration.
I replaced the original 5" pitch prop with a 6 last year, and performance is about the same but my "cruise" RPMs are a little lower. I also found a lighting coil from an earlier model and a generic ATV rectifier/regulator which will power my lights with no noticeable performance impact. I did that so I can carry a small gel-cell instead of a large battery.
Oh, and so far it's started every time and never quit.

 

[ftp2leta]

Thanks to you 2, i appreciate the comments. In some ways i was trying to prep for the future... that being a bigger boat. But I may end up sailing the 20 for many years. My friend told me that the old 2.5 2cycle is horribly noisy but does the job. I would really like a more quiet engine and F-N-R. So i think i may end up with a 4-6hp 4 cycle, i will enquire if some 4hp have reverse. The Nissan was sold, i saw it today and this thing was mint/like new, my lost at 500$.

Thanks again for some great comments.

Regards, Ben

 

[Joe Blizzard]

i will enquire if some 4hp have reverse

My 4hp Yamaha has reverse. I seldom use it, BTW. I don't use the motor as a brake and I don't have to back out of a slip, but if I did, I suspect it might be easier to push off than to deal with prop walk and such. I think if I moved to something bigger, it would be to get two cylinders and less vibration.

 

[kenn]

Salut, Ben!

I recall that an owner of a Sandpiper 565 (18.5 ft, 1300 displacement) who sails in Montreal recommended a 5 or 6 HP motor to fight the river current.

We have a Suzuki 5 HP 2-stroke on our Sandpiper, and it will easily push us to hull speed, so I believe that a 5 or 6 HP motor would be suitable for your H20. Our Suzuki has a lighting/charging coil, which is a bonus.

The new 4-stroke motors are very nice, but if you can find a used 2-stroke motor that runs well you will save alot.

Bonne chance!

 

[ftp2leta]

Salut, Ben!

I recall that an owner of a Sandpiper 565 (18.5 ft, 1300 displacement) who sails in Montreal recommended a 5 or 6 HP motor to fight the river current.

We have a Suzuki 5 HP 2-stroke on our Sandpiper, and it will easily push us to hull speed, so I believe that a 5 or 6 HP motor would be suitable for your H20. Our Suzuki has a lighting/charging coil, which is a bonus.

The new 4-stroke motors are very nice, but if you can find a used 2-stroke motor that runs well you will save alot.

Bonne chance!

Thanks again! I was a Honda racing (motorcycle) mechanic many years ago. I have work and race on 2 cycle motocross and even if they had power i always hated them

I now have 2 dual bike with 4 stoke engine and i just love them. So i gues this is why I'm looking for a 4 stroke.

So with all those good replies from you guys i think that a 5-6hp 4s would be a good choice.

Now wile searching for some stuff on importing a boat or should i say exporting from NC (seem to be harder) and looking for the Hunter value i stumble back on that site and I just realize that i was on a Hunter site... he he he.

Now i will have to start a new thread about importing a boat in Canada...

Regards, Ben

 

[sailor rich]

my suzuki

ive had a lil suzuki 2 stroke 8 hp on the back of my macgreggor 22 for 4 years and its been great i never take it above half throttle though cause it doesnt do any good. i really love the electric start and the battery conditioner if i run the battery dead i can pull start it and charge it up. just my .02

 

[rod1029]

The smaller Nissan engines, I believe the number is 9.8 and less are the same as the Tahatsu and Mercury engines, they are made by Tahatsu and labeled for the respective companies, this is the information I received from the distributor in Tennessee recently when I was purchasing a tahatsu/nissan motor, and on my 25 foot boat I made sure I purchased the extra long shaft, just in case of chop and rocking, all three brands have a history of reliability, only the mercury name carries a higher name and therefore price tag... hope this helps some..

 

[George H260]

Each manufacturer provides recommendations for maximum hp on its boat. Why not ask hunter about this. You have the issue of weight and torque on the transom. I'd focus on getting the longest shaft within the limits established by Hunter for your boat.