Night Sailing Basics

[twalker H260]

USCG Reg 23

There is a clear distinction in the navigation rules to vessels over 12 metres and those under. Rule 23 paragraph D sub i indicates that a power driven vessel under 12 metres MAY use a single all-around white light in lieu of a steaming light and stern light but it must also use side lights. This doesn't apply however to vessels over 12 metres. The link below will take you to the USCG NAV Rules. Perhaps now we can move on to some other discussion about night sailing?

 

[Herb Parsons]

From the Regs

Actually, the statement "However, an all-around light (aka anchor light) means you're not moving or cannot move under your own power. " is incorrect. As Poor Sailor has stated, and all-around light can also be a combination steaming light and stern light, when it's used with the side lights.Specifically, the regulations state:Rule 23 d iA power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lueu of the lisths presecribedin paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.I think that what happens is that we all end up seeing a combination of SOME knowledge of the rules, coupled with a knowledge (that may or may not be right) of how things are done.It's been very enlightening for me as I'm learning the rules as they are written, instead of how they are interpreted and/or practiced.It's funny, but according to the international and inland rules (as someone else mentioned, state rule may differ), if Poor Sailor's boat is less than 7 meters, he doesn't have to have ANY light running continually, but can just keep a flashlight handy, and illuminate it "in sufficient time to prevent a collision".A power driven vessel though, is specifically defined as one being propelled by machinery.One of the more interesting rules I've seen in this area though, doesn't fall under lighting, but under day signals.International rules state that a sailing vessel being propelled by both sail and machinery MUST also display an inverted cone during the day. I've NEVER seen that done.Inland rules exempt sailboats less than 12 meters from this rule.

 

[a poor old sailor]

Regulations, practice, and confusion.

"I think that what happens is that we all end up seeing a combination of SOME knowledge of the rules, coupled with a knowledge (that may or may not be right) of how things are done."I agree, and though I believe that I am technically correct, it appears that there exists many that are confused by the rules regarding my lights and I will reconsider my stern light for inland sailing only. However, I will always use my anchor light (w/o stern or steaming lights) when offshore.The only way that I could see that I am possibly in violation is that I am showing a steaming light (front and sides of anchor light) regardless of the status of my engine. But I contend that my means of propulsion should not matter to other traffic as long as I follow the nav rules pertaining to a powered vessel. If anyone can show me a reg that says my engine must be on and in gear, I will follow it.PS I apologize to the original poster for the thread derailment.

 

[abe]

Excuse my ignorance, but means of propulsion

does matter in terms of who gives way... sailing vs motor. Therefor, knowing if another vessel is under power or sail is important. Or did I miss something here?abe

 

[p323ms]

lost in the stars

I've been surprised at how easily an all round light at the masthead can be lost in the stars. Even more easily it is lost in the city lights. We have been anchoring with an all round light tied on top of the end of the boom. This had the advantage of illuminating the boat. Sometimes I put it on top of the bimini. The regs say placed where it can best be seen. Usually they show it at the top of the mast or hanging near the bow. But for me on top of the bimini works best and since we are not moving bow and stern have little meaning. What have you seen while night sailing??? The best we've seen is dolphins. A thunderstorm over land was also awesome. I saw what I thought was a trash bag wrapped around my rudder but eventually realised that it was two large remoras hitching a ride. I'm sure that some of you have seen better things. Tom

 

[John Nantz]

Agree with "lost in the stars" Problem

Anybody who has ever traveled at night can sympathize with the difficulty of figuring out where the anchored boat is when all they have on is a masthead anchor light. "Lost in the stars" is a very apropos statement. It meets the regulations but doesn't necessarily do the job in the best maner possible.A more ideal solution would be to have both an anchor light - to meet the regulations - and another light that provides some illumination to the coachroof. The second light would provide much better safety for the anchored boat plus make it easier for vessels moving on the water to avoid the anchored boat.Thanks for your post p323ms.What have I seen while sailing at night? Would you believe a swarm of birds that invaded our cabin???? AND, back then we had two siamese cats on board that went bizerk! The birds would attack the running lights and whenever my wife opened the hatch to tell me something they would fly inside the cabin. She then had to try and catch the buggers and throw them back out again. What a mess!But what I like the best is the phosphorescence in the waves.

 

[Vic "Seven"]

AT THE RISK of generating further comments ...

When we deliver power boats overnight we put on as many internal lights as we can that are visible from outside the boat ... The point we want to make is only that we just want be be seen. Once we are seen ... then we figure we have an even chance.

 

[DAVE C.5111]

Seen at night

We left Ventura around 0100 on the way to Catalina last Oct. Wind blowing 10-12, full moon up, it seemed almost bright as day. Mary was down below asleep, when maybe 30-40 feet off my port two pilot whales popped up (I've never seen pilots off the SoCal coast). Woke Mary up to see them. They stayed within sight for maybe 15-20 minutes, comming up every minute or so.dave..

 

[patrick]

These nav light comments

do not answer the original question. It was for some BASIC information re: SAILING at night. We do not know much else ie: what size of boat, location, conditions, etc.Whether POS is right or not is not nearly so important as that it is confusing and misleading someone asking for basic information. I consider someone who uses an anchor light for a nav light while sailing to be incompetant and I will report it and adjust my plans accordingly if I encounter that situation. Suggesting to someone new to the subject that he can do the same is what really bothers me. If my commitment to teaching someone new to the subject the proper way to go seems emotional, POS's attitude is even more arrogantly stupid than I first thought.A new sailor will expect to see a stern light and/or a steaming light not an anchor light. These lights are sized (for a certain candlepower) and designed for their purpose. I have doubts that an anchor light meets all of the criteria - specifically brightness. Even if it is legal, showing an anchor light under way is confusing to someone new. Most people I know will think that it is some mistake and would not know whether the guy was motoring or not or where he was heading.A novice can really get into trouble doing this kind of thing. It is bad advice and contributes to an irresponsible attitude and behavior.Most boats I have seen have switches for combinations of nav lights - one for power and another for sail. It is not that difficult. I cannot recall any which provide for shutting off the stern light. I think I have seen one which had a separate switch for the steaming light.My basic advice on the subject is to figure out the proper setup for your boat and use it accordingly. If not for your own safety, do it for the other guy so he knows what you are doing.As to the inverted cone, it is required (on certain sized boats) and the CG can and will give you a ticket if you are not using it when you should ie: motoring with your sails up in the daytime. It is $175 as of a few years ago. I know someone who got one ticket leaving Puget Sound and another in Oregon when he arrived there.

 

[Herb Parsons]

Since I helped "derail" the discussion

I guess I'll try to help get it back on track some. I do night sailing probably 30% of the time that I sail, and I sail a lot (typically 2-3 times a week in the winter, and 3-5 times in the summer.)I think going out on the LAKE (the emphasis was deliberate) at night with my wife, setting the autopilot, and watching the moon, clouds, and stars is probably the main reason I now own two boats that get regular attention and upgrades, instead of one boat being neglected and falling apart at the slip. It turned my wife from a person "putting up" with my (assumed) temporary obsession, into a sailing fan and enthusiast.There is less traffic, during the summer months, it's MUCH more comfortable, and just all around enjoyable.Give up the "need for speed", be very observant of everything around you, and you'll have a blast.If you're concerned about being visible to other boats, one of the new things I learned, that I was ignorant of before, is that you can add two all around lights to the top of your mast (only to be used when underway), the top being red, the one immediately below being green, that will give added visibility. You cannot do this if you're using a tri-color combination light. I discussed this with my wife while we were talking about this thread, and we're adding it to the Coronado 35 on the coast, and possibly the O'Day 25 on the Lake Grapevine.Chances are many will not recognize what it means (red over green, sailing machine), but at least it'll make you more visible.

 

[a poor old sailor]

You'd best learn your lights

I think that this discussion accentuates a very important topic that the original poster needs to know before sailing at night. He positively needs to know the significance of the different light combinations that he may see.For example, an all around light combined with bow lights definitely means that the boat is moving. Not that he should ever realize that it is actually an all around light he is seeing. Depending on his approach to my vessel, he MUST perceive my all around light either as a stern light or, if he also sees one or both bow lights, as a steaming light. Though an anchor light is always an all around light, an all around light is not always an anchor light. There are millions of boats out there with only one all around light in conjunction with bow lights. You'd better believe that they are not all anchored, or you are going to find yourself in serious trouble. (see previously mentioned colregs)As far as meeting brightness criteria, all I can say is that my all around light is more visible than my stern light. If my OEM stern light meets criteria, my LED all-around blows the criteria away.Patrick's "arrogantly stupid" attitude could get new sailors in trouble if they consequently believe that an all-around light is always indicative of an anchored boat. In truth, one needs to study the various light combinations that one see and understand what they mean. Please refer to post #30 and the nav rules to understand what direction my boat is going, and if you can't smell my exhaust while passing me consider it a blessing.But again, if someone can point out any illegality to a sailboat (that concedes their 'sail' right of way) showing a steaming light regardless of propulsion, I'd like to hear it.Herb, I agree that the red over green lights will help with visibility, but I'm afraid that they would lead to more confusion of those not intimately familiar with the regulations.PS Thanks for reminding me of that limerick, I now have to go find my cheat sheat from Captain's school to rememorize the rest of them.

 

[Rick Webb]

Herb, Just to Make Sure Everyone Else Knows

The red and green lights you speak of must be at least one meter apart vertically. As is the case with the bow and steaming light. The same rule applies to towing fishing and all of the others but no need to confuse the issue.

 

[Herb Parsons]

Vertical Red and Green

Is this one meter requirement for red and green masthead lights a Florida state law, or am I missing something in the colregs? I don't see a requirement that they be a meter apart. Rule 25(c) doesn't mention it.

 

[John Nantz]

More Light is Better (and Safer)

This is a picture of a boat that was T-boned by an aluminum sport-fishing charter boat traveling at high speed. Look at his lights... can't find 'em?I'll give you a hint, they're on the bow.The sailboat had small teardrop type running lights that were popular in the early 70's and the lenses were very faded. Larger lights with good lenses may have averted this accident. Especially when traveling around areas with urban lights, for safety reasons, I'd recommend going up a size for running lights for increased visability. If one doesn't want to go through the expense of upgrading the lights at least replace those old worn out and faded lenses. After all, it's your safety that's at risk, not the other guys.

 

[George7742]

Careful Skippers!!!

Can you imagine a power boat owner reading this article? How will we maintain our image as superior watermen if we can't decide what lights to show at nite? Lets just tell them that we were kidding all along.

 

[Rick Webb]

Damn, I Should Have Stayed Quiet

I knew I would have to look it up again.Annex 1Positioning and Technical Details of Lights and Shapes 84.01 Paragraph i (2)In my Coast Guard Copy it is on page 133Makes sense when you think about it. If the lights are next to each other and you are a half mile away you will not be able to tell what color they are.

 

[Herb Parsons]

Reputations

"How will we maintain our image as superior watermen if we can't decide what lights to show at nite?"The very fact that we're discussing it, instead of the popular attitude of "I already know the rules, so I don't need to know anything else from anyone"

 

[p323ms]

Herb Parsons are there alligators up there

Hi Herb; There are alligators in the San Antonio river at least as far north as Floresville as I have seen them while canoeing. There are a lot of gators at Choke Canyon reservoir and I've heard that there are a few in Oklahoma and Arkansas. Do you ever see a lot of eyes while sailing at night??? I was very surprised to find out that there are alligators on the Tennessee river at Huntsville (I've seen several while kayaking).  I've seen a lot of gators in Mobile bay up near Spanish Fort but only while kayaking. But I've never seen one while sailing. Even while anchored in Ingram's Bayou I've never seen a gator while on the sailboat. Ingrams is a neat anchorage in the ditch between Mobile Bay and Perdido bay and I highly recommend it as a safe place for a night.  Forgive me I am a frustrated biologist that works in a lab instead of out in the wilds.Tom

 

[Nick]

New Regulations . . .

All of this shows how anal the regulations are. A boat's a boat so why not make everything more uniform? It seems these regs are written more to keep lawyers afloat in a court of law . . . How's this: Rule 1: All vessels will be lighted as to make themselves visable at night. Rule 2: Lights moving from left to right indicates a vessel moving left to right. Rule 3: Lights moving right to left indicates a vessel moving right to left. Rule 4: Lights that appear stationary indicates a vessel moving toward you, away from you, anchored, or not a vessel at all. Rule 5: The towing of any any unlighted barge is unlawful. Rule 6: A revolving red and white light indicates a tow cable in use. Nick

 

[Rick Webb]

Gators in the San Antonio River in San Antonio

There was a gator farm near the zoo and occasionally from a flood or a college prank a gator would be found in the River. I had forgotten all about that till now. We would see them all the time while sailing in the Biloxi Back Bay. We were sure we saw one here in Rocky Bayou but as we got closer to be sure there was nothing there.