Next paint question ........ white rudder

[Ross]

If the need to paint the rudder white is real then I

would be inclined to call it a manufacturing defect. Why would anyone build a major component in such a manner that the color of the paint had a serious impact on the reliability of that part?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Hunter paint option

As I recall, bottom paint is an option which I did see done on many of the boats leaving the factory, however, none of them had white on the rudder (nor was I told that was an option).Since the mfg doesn't paint them, it can't be a mfg defect.

 

[Scott B]

we went for a walk

last night out the pier at the marina where the Hunter dealer is located. You could spot all the Hunters even under wraps. Black hull, white rudder.

 

[Ross]

Scott maybe they wave the rudder as a signal of surrender when the

boat heels too far.

 

[Scott B]

Ross

would that be when the bottom side is the top side and you have nothing to stand on.

 

[Ross]

Prolly. !!

That's when you hope that the designers did their numbers right and she will come back up on her feet.

 

[Maine Sail]

Ross...

You do know that prolly is not a word..right? Remember, we should not be teaching newbies the wrong terminology..BTW rudders are supposed to be water tight. Direct sun on a dark colored rudder, sitting on the hard, causes extreme heat inside the rudder. Because it is "sealed" this heat build up causes internal pressure and can "pop" the skins from the foam core and or pop the seam around the rudder shaft allowing water ingress. This is more of a problem in warm climes than in the North but if you don't go in until late May or June up North it can be an issue too.. Wrapping the rudder in a white fabric can help alleviate this problem if you want a dark red, blue or black rudder..

 

[Ross]

Mainesail, Prolly is an old word from POGO.

He was also a boat owner. Pogo had lot of neat words that we don't read much any more.

 

[Maine Sail]

I rember but it..

I remember but it was meant totally tongue in cheek....;D

 

[Ross]

Mainesail I know that you were speaking/ writing

with tongue firmly in cheek. After dealing with the philistines I tend to make light of everything. We do have a few on the forum.

 

[Bill Coxe]

Painting the rudder white

The manual that came with my O'Day 40 recommends painting the rudder white to prevent warp damage. I didn't do that on my O28 and never had a problem, go figure. But if I read it and the maker says do it, I try to do it. FWIW.Bill Coxe, O40 Kukulcán, New Bern, NC

 

[Brian B321]

So why not the whole boat

Yes, I did read about the "foss foam" - but if heat is so tough on fiberglass and gelcoat - why would anyone use antfouling with a dark color - clearly its going to draw more heat & algae and has a higher potential for problems in or out of the water

 

[Joseph Shirley]

Brian, Dark bottoms show slime less and look better

A white bottom shows the slightest slime or growth, and is quite often used on racing boats for that reason. It lets you know when you have to scrub or wet sand the bottom for maximum speed. Dark paint is not as critical on hull bottoms because of the many more layers of lay-up. It will absorb more heat than white, but disburses the heat through the extra thickness, and expands uniformly an unnoticeable amount. The rudder is thin lay-up, adhered to the foam. When it expands it does much more so than the foam, so it blisters and separates. After it separates it retains the distortion and must be repaired.

 

[Scott B]

white rudder explained

Sent an e-mail to the Hunter dealer and received this explanation,"When a foam cored rudder is painted a dark colour, it is not unusual to see heat build ups that can cause the foam to cook (@ 145 degrees f). When the foam cooks, it off-gases which creates delamination between the rudder skins and the foam. Water can then get in to the cavities created which then leads to freeze/thaw cycles that further degrade the rudder. This can be somewhat avoided with the Hunter composite shaft rudders if a hole is drilled at the bottom of the blade to allow water to escape. It is still best to keep the colour light. "This would go along with the foss foam explanation.Brian, sounds like the concern is with the foam inside the rudder and not the fibreglass and gelcoat on the outside.

 

[Ross]

It still seems like a manufacturing defect, poor engineering

and poor material choices. There are many light weight materials that can tolerate temperatures above 212 F.

 

[filthy liberal scum]

some of what hunter says may be true!

first of all it's almost impossible to keep a rudder 100% dry. basically you usually have three different materials in a rudder. stainless steel post, foam core material of different makeups, and fiberglass reinforced resin of various types. all three have different coefficients of expansion relative to temp. it makes sense to try to keep the temp fluctuations to a minimum, which can be accomplished by painting it white. on my boat the rudder is painted the same color as the bottom, black. in the hot sun vs cold i can actually see slight indentations and bulges depending on how the sun hits it. when it's in the water i would expect it to be relatively stable.S/V Que Pasa?

 

[Warren Milberg]

I'm not sure how light weight

my Foss Foam rudder is on my H28.5, but since it's on the ground under my boat as we speak, I can tell you that it's too heavy for one person to deal with. I still have the original data sheet from Foss Foam that must have come with my boat when new. It clearly states to paint the rudder white, for all the reasons mentioned below. They know, and all owners of Foss Foam rudders know, that these are basically inferior products. If maintaining an inferior product by painting it a light color lengthens its lifespan, it's probably worth buying a quart of white or gray bottom paint and using it on the rudder. That quart of paint will last you through many seasons if sealed probably. In the end, painting your rudder white to keep it from delaminating is sort of like crumpling up a copy of your local newspaper and throwing it over your left shoulder to ward off attacks by sabre-tooth tigers. Whatever works, works....

 

[filthy liberal scum]

I don't specifically know how rudders are const now

in the old days when my 1979 O'day 30 was built the rudder shell was two pieces that was resined together then filled with foam. lousy const method!!!!!!!!!!!!. I had to rebuild mine about 15 years ago for just the problems most have stated. spliting on the leading and trailing edges where the seams were. the foam they used then was open cell foam that would absorb water. i split mine open then removed the foam. i then epoxied structural mat to the three posts they had welded to the rudder post. i then fitted the shell back together and epoxied mat to the leading and trailing edges. then filled it with closed cell foam that won't absorb water. i know that closed cell isn't as strong as the open cell but with spreading the load over a much larger area regarding post to shell it works beautifully and no water pouring out of rudder when it's hauled in the fall. has worked for 15 yrs w/o problems. so whatever works. i guess they don't do it my way because it would cost lots more to build it that way.S/V Que Pasa?

 

[Scott B]

speaking of Pogo

Maine Sail, I may be a newbie here, but I'm far from a youngun'. I recognized the Prolly terminology right away. the latest Pogo chapter where they set sail.... Around the Mast in Eighty Days http://www.pogopossum.com/gofizzicklepogo/go08.htm

 

[Scott B]

White rudder painting

The other post on rudders got me thinking about checking the Foss Foam (Newrudders.com) website for info and found this; We recommend that white paints be used. White is a popular color and makes it easy to see weeds and other debris that can catch on your rudder. We do not recommend the use of dark color bottom paint for your rudder, as they generate heat whenever your boat is out of the water and in the sun. Since your rudder is made of cellular material this heat can cause dimensional changes and cosmetic damage. If the rudder is painted a dark color it should be shielded from the sun with a white wrapping whenever the boat is out of the water. YOUR RUDDER WARRANTY EXCLUDES DAMAGE CAUSED BY HEAT.