Newbie Intro and Q's about CNY Machine Shops and the Mainsail Shackle

[TrapperJohn]

I'm a newbie here and looking forward to a lot interaction here with my questions.

A little background ...

I retired last fall and had built up a sailing kitty over the last couple years of working so I could scratch that itch I've had for over 50 years but never had the cash laying around to satisfy it.

During my last 6 months of work, I began my search. I wasn't looking for a McYacht, just like I don't own a McMansion. I didn't want it in pristine, sailaway condition as I knew I wanted to get my hands dirty fixing, cleaning, replacing what needed to be done. That's how I've learned over my lifetime.

I finally found something close to what I was looking for in Oswego, NY on Craigslist: a 1982 Morgan 321 that needed some cleanup for a very reasonable price. I figured that if it became too much of a headache, I could just give it away or saw it up and it wouldn't hurt too much. Since I lived 500 miles away for my job, I first had my wife take a look at it to see if she thought it would be bearable. Then, I was able to breakaway for a long weekend and came home to see it myself with the owner present. I had about an hour looking everything over and got to see some of the things that needed to be looked at/worked on before I went further. Most I felt comfortable with but there are a few things that I knew I would need outside help. I got some of my questions answered and others about its history the current owner didn't have a clue. It was still in the water so we started the engine which came right up and ran very smooth. Looking at the engine, I knew it had been taken care of by the cleanliness, no leaks and the maintenance history over the owner's ownership. I didn't feel any soft spots in the deck and the standing rigging was clean with no signs of deterioration. Satisfied up to that point, I arranged a survey which I wasn't able to be present for. I asked the surveyor specifically to check the chainplates and standing rigging, hull integrity and condition, seacock conditions figuring if it doesn't sink the first time I took it out, I was ahead of the game. The results came back almost as expected with some problems found that I hadn't noticed but nothing seriously bad (yet).

I bought the boat over the winter but wasn't able to get access to it since it was in a warehouse in the security area at the port. I didn't have the required TSA access card so waited until today when it was finally brought into the yard where I can get to it. Spent 4 hours today crawling around and planning.

I'll start with a couple questions ...

I know there are some Central NY people around here and was wondering if anyone knew of a reputable machine shop in the area that can fabricate new SS mounting plates for my backstay? If not, does anyone have suggestions I can work with by phone/email? I have a split backstay and one of the tangs is a little bent.

The second question is on the main halyard. I haven't seen the mast and halyards since they haven't brought them out yet. I need all new running rigging and thought replacing the halyards would be much easier with the mast on the stands. I was able to get to the headboard on the mainsail but the hole looks huge for any of the shackles I've seen. The hole is about 7/8" diameter. Am I missing something? Is there are part still attached to the main halyard at the mast or was I not looking at the headboard? I couldn't unroll the sail at this time to examine further. I've attached a photo.

That's enough for now. Sorry to be so long winded. Just wanted to include a little intro with my first questions. Appreciate any help you can provide.

 

[garymalmgren]

Hi Trapper John.
There is a plastic or aluminum cringle missing from the hole in your head board.

You will need to take it to a sailmaker and have a new one fitted.

You might as well take all of your sails along and have them inspected.
I would expect the sailmaker to tell you that the sails are past it and you need a new set.

Don't! Get a couple of years experience with the old ones before you commit to new sails. Screw the old ones instead of new ones.

There should be a shackle of some sort on the end of your halyard , though some people tie the halyard.
I prefer a proper halyard shackle

Gary

 

[Will Gilmore]

Congratulations on your new boat.

Unless the previous owner (PO) has told you the sails are less than a few years old, they are more likely a decade or two old. Gary's suggestion is good advice. Replacing a halyard is not that difficult if the old one is in place and can be used as a leader for the new one.

Can you send a photo of your bent backstay plate? I'm curious about that and if the bend affects performance or strength significantly.

-Will

 

[dlochner]

Universal Metal in Fulton, NY. Right on 481 across from Mimis. They are sailor friendly.

Bay Sails in Sodus Point is a good local sailmaker. Take your sails there and Tony Peele will treat you right.

While the mast is on saw horses, closely inspect the standing rigging. If this is a freshwater boat, the rigging may be original. Running new halyards and mast wiring while the mast is 3 feet off the ground and horizontal is much easier than when it is vertical.

There are some knowledgeable sailors in Oswego, however, they tend to be racing oriented. Getting involved with the Yacht Club and racing will build your sailing skills.

Currently I'm in South Carolina and will be back in the Oswego area in June. Send me a PM and I can help you make contact with sailors in the area. I'm also in Oswego at least once a week at the Maritime Museum. If you have questions about your boat I can stop by.

Bay Sails

www.baysails.ca

 

[TrapperJohn]

Gary, thanks for your help!

Thanks for clearing up the headboard issue. I'll take it to a sail loft and see if they can install a new cringle. I've not seen one with that size hole before. The closer I look, it appears there is a slight bit of wear where the shackle had rubbed on the headboard for a while. At least I can start with ordering a new main halyard with confidence. Like you, I much prefer the D-shackle.

Will, thank you also!

I knew the sails were worn. The 110 genoa has already been repaired once at the clew. I was planning to at least run with them for the first season until I got more familiar with the boat handling and then look for new or slightly used sails thereafter. The mainsail looked in much better condition --- the fabric was still fairly crisp and was markedly cleaner than the genoa. I haven't inspected the 130 genoa yet.

The picture of the backstay plates is attached to this reply. Appreciate your thoughts on this as I am still wondering how I'm going to get to the nuts on the bolts. This 66-year-old body doesn't bend like it used to. The starboard plate has about a 10-20 degree bend right at the toerail to put the plate in-line with the stay. The port plate has about a 30-40 degree bend at the toerail and has about a 5-10 degree twist above the toerail. All those dimensions are by eyeball. These are the best pictures I have right now. Don't know why I didn't take more detailed pictures yesterday on my first visit since purchase. This was called out in the survey.

dlochner, thank you so much for the recommendations! I will PM you.

I know there are quite a few racing sailors in Oswego as my wife went to one of their open to the public sails to drum up participation. She figured if I was really serious about this, she might as well get a taste of it. My only issue is I'm more the laid-back, the journey is the adventure type rather than a racer. Besides, at 66 with a bum knee, I'm afraid I may be more the hindrance than the help. I don't think they have a handicap score for having an old geezer on board.

Again, thank you all for your great help. I'm sure I'll have many more questions going forward. The electrical system scares me so that will be next on my priority list after I clean up and get a little more organized.

 

[thinwater]

I'm a newbie here and looking forward to a lot interaction here with my questions.

A little background ...

I retired last fall and had built up a sailing kitty over the last couple years of working so I could scratch that itch I've had for over 50 years but never had the cash laying around to satisfy it.

During my last 6 months of work, I began my search. I wasn't looking for a McYacht, just like I don't own a McMansion. I didn't want it in pristine, sailaway condition as I knew I wanted to get my hands dirty fixing, cleaning, replacing what needed to be done. That's how I've learned over my lifetime.

I finally found something close to what I was looking for in Oswego, NY on Craigslist: a 1982 Morgan 321 that needed some cleanup for a very reasonable price. I figured that if it became too much of a headache, I could just give it away or saw it up and it wouldn't hurt too much. Since I lived 500 miles away for my job, I first had my wife take a look at it to see if she thought it would be bearable. Then, I was able to breakaway for a long weekend and came home to see it myself with the owner present. I had about an hour looking everything over and got to see some of the things that needed to be looked at/worked on before I went further. Most I felt comfortable with but there are a few things that I knew I would need outside help. I got some of my questions answered and others about its history the current owner didn't have a clue. It was still in the water so we started the engine which came right up and ran very smooth. Looking at the engine, I knew it had been taken care of by the cleanliness, no leaks and the maintenance history over the owner's ownership. I didn't feel any soft spots in the deck and the standing rigging was clean with no signs of deterioration. Satisfied up to that point, I arranged a survey which I wasn't able to be present for. I asked the surveyor specifically to check the chainplates and standing rigging, hull integrity and condition, seacock conditions figuring if it doesn't sink the first time I took it out, I was ahead of the game. The results came back almost as expected with some problems found that I hadn't noticed but nothing seriously bad (yet).

I bought the boat over the winter but wasn't able to get access to it since it was in a warehouse in the security area at the port. I didn't have the required TSA access card so waited until today when it was finally brought into the yard where I can get to it. Spent 4 hours today crawling around and planning.

I'll start with a couple questions ...

I know there are some Central NY people around here and was wondering if anyone knew of a reputable machine shop in the area that can fabricate new SS mounting plates for my backstay? If not, does anyone have suggestions I can work with by phone/email? I have a split backstay and one of the tangs is a little bent.

The second question is on the main halyard. I haven't seen the mast and halyards since they haven't brought them out yet. I need all new running rigging and thought replacing the halyards would be much easier with the mast on the stands. I was able to get to the headboard on the mainsail but the hole looks huge for any of the shackles I've seen. The hole is about 7/8" diameter. Am I missing something? Is there are part still attached to the main halyard at the mast or was I not looking at the headboard? I couldn't unroll the sail at this time to examine further. I've attached a photo.

That's enough for now. Sorry to be so long winded. Just wanted to include a little intro with my first questions. Appreciate any help you can provide.

You don't actually need a shackle for the main halyard at all. Many sailors tie them on with a bowline or halyard hitch (the bowline is much easier to untie). A major advantage of tying the sail on is that you can trim ~ 6 inches off each season, moving any chafe points and extending halyard life. Less metal to bang around, no shackle to potentially come open up high. Unless you disconnect the halyard each time you sail (and there is normally no need to) a knot works better.

You do need the cringle. Alternatively, if you would rather save the money toward a new sail, you can thread a piece of tubular webbing over the halyard (tied on) for chafe protection.

----

The jib is a different case. The fitting often has narrow or sharp edges and with a furler their may be no room for a knot. I depends. Spinnakers typically have shackles for quick release when dousing. But there is no special need on a main halyard. No need for a spliced eye either. In fact, I have intentionally gotten of (cut off) main halyard shackles on several boats since my last wire halyard, 30 years ago. No need, one less failure point, and I like moving the wear points.

 

[dLj]

Your back stay plates look correct to me. They should be bent. The bend should make that plate align with the stay when attached.

dj

 

[Will Gilmore]

That port chain plate looks perfectly capable of performing its duties as it should. I see no need to worry about it being a little over bent. If you have OCD, as has been recently discussed in a thread about straightening a bent wing keel, it will drive you nuts until you have it fixed, but your tuning won't be any worse because of it. And, the bolts look just as solid as the starboard plate.

-Will

 

[TrapperJohn]

Thinwater, thanks for your input! I agree a knot would seem easier and your logic about moving the chafe points every season makes a lot of sense. However, Ive never sailed a boat with as substantial a headboard as this one. Right now, since I'm not getting new(er) sails just yet, I would feel more comfortable with a halyard with a D shackle for the time being. You've given me something to talk about with the sailmaker when I take this one in to be repaired and when it's time to move on.

dj, thanks for your thoughts. I tried to get better pictures today but couldn't get the right angle for the pictures on both sides from the pedestal. Since the top of the transom is about 16 ft in the air, I couldn't get high enough on my ladder to get a side view without ruining a perfectly good pair of underwear.

Will Gilmore, thanks for the reassuring words. Yes, I know it's not right but I couldn't see any stress cracks or discoloration and both are tight against the hull. Yes, I do have a mild case of CDO (that's OCD with the letters in alphabetical order, as they should be) but I think I'll live with it for now. I asked the PO and he said he saw no difference and never really noticed it before.

Thank all of you for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate the information and different perspectives.