I am in the process of updating my old wiring. I found a site that sells quality marine wire at reasonable prices. I thought I would share it and ask the forum what you think.
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check their eBay store
seems their eBay prices are pretty consistent with retail brick and mortar places
seems their eBay prices are pretty consistent with retail brick and mortar places
Ancor Wire...
I dont know about your area but,here in Kemah just South of Houston the local Home Depot carries Marine Grade Wire by Ancor in thier Electrical Dept... a spool of 14 ga. runs less than $4.00. You can check your local store and/or ask them about ordering it for you.I've yet to find it cheaper anywhere. Fair Winds >>>> David
I dont know about your area but,here in Kemah just South of Houston the local Home Depot carries Marine Grade Wire by Ancor in thier Electrical Dept... a spool of 14 ga. runs less than $4.00. You can check your local store and/or ask them about ordering it for you.I've yet to find it cheaper anywhere. Fair Winds >>>> David
Marine electrical stuff
Phil - Thanks for sharing the info. I can't comment on the prices etc of the source you found, but can add my 2¢ worth abt. the importance of using ONLY good quality wire & connectors etc like Ancor products. Stay away from the cheaper stuff sold in auto supply & hardware stores : even for wiring on a trailer, RV or car, using that junk just leads to problems and the small amt. of $$ saved is soon lost in troubleshooting, replacing corroded connections etc. There may be other brands available for marine use besides Ancor but I'm not familiar with them and have always been satisfied & had good results with their wires etc.
Phil - Thanks for sharing the info. I can't comment on the prices etc of the source you found, but can add my 2¢ worth abt. the importance of using ONLY good quality wire & connectors etc like Ancor products. Stay away from the cheaper stuff sold in auto supply & hardware stores : even for wiring on a trailer, RV or car, using that junk just leads to problems and the small amt. of $$ saved is soon lost in troubleshooting, replacing corroded connections etc. There may be other brands available for marine use besides Ancor but I'm not familiar with them and have always been satisfied & had good results with their wires etc.
What do you use for connectors?
I used to solder my connectors, but now I'm told the hard spot at the end of the solder will break from vibration. Any crimp connector is asking for corrosion around salt water. A friend who wired megayachts in Port Townsend said they used crimp connectors, but dipped the wire in copper contact paste first. I've never seen the stuff he used for sale, but I wonder if the contact paste they sell for aluminium house meter connection would work. How do you treat electrical connections on your boat?
I used to solder my connectors, but now I'm told the hard spot at the end of the solder will break from vibration. Any crimp connector is asking for corrosion around salt water. A friend who wired megayachts in Port Townsend said they used crimp connectors, but dipped the wire in copper contact paste first. I've never seen the stuff he used for sale, but I wonder if the contact paste they sell for aluminium house meter connection would work. How do you treat electrical connections on your boat?
Crimp connectors and shrink tube
I have always used crimp connectors and then covered them with the heat-sensitive shrink tubing. In theory that should keep moisture out and everything together. Dave s/v Wind Dreamer II
I have always used crimp connectors and then covered them with the heat-sensitive shrink tubing. In theory that should keep moisture out and everything together. Dave s/v Wind Dreamer II
There are at least two types of heat shrink tubing
one has a compound inside that melts and seals the connection the other doesn't. 3M makes liquid electrical tape that you can apply with the brush in the can. I did an experiment when I was building Bietzpadlin. I crimped connectors to some stranded #10 wire, machine tool rated, but not tinned. I then treated the connectors in different ways two I left plain two I applied heat shrink and two I painted with 3M liquid electric tape. I put them into a jar of salt water like a bunch of flowers. Once a week I would pull them and inspect them for corrosion. After about a year the plain ends were showing some green, the rest were still looking good. The corroded ones I cut open with a jeweler saw and at the crimp there was no sign of corrosion. I concluded that time and salt water would not be kind to unprotected connections but a little protection will go a long way to reducing the number of problems you have in the future.
one has a compound inside that melts and seals the connection the other doesn't. 3M makes liquid electrical tape that you can apply with the brush in the can. I did an experiment when I was building Bietzpadlin. I crimped connectors to some stranded #10 wire, machine tool rated, but not tinned. I then treated the connectors in different ways two I left plain two I applied heat shrink and two I painted with 3M liquid electric tape. I put them into a jar of salt water like a bunch of flowers. Once a week I would pull them and inspect them for corrosion. After about a year the plain ends were showing some green, the rest were still looking good. The corroded ones I cut open with a jeweler saw and at the crimp there was no sign of corrosion. I concluded that time and salt water would not be kind to unprotected connections but a little protection will go a long way to reducing the number of problems you have in the future.
Connectors etc
I use connectors that are heat-shrinkable & contain an sealant/adhesive that flows and seals the connector to wire joint when heat is applied. Also an Ancor double crimp ratcheting crimper. If the connection is the type that is intended to be "unplugged" then use a little dielectric grease before snapping them together. Dielectric grease is good stuff to use in the sockets & bulb bases of running lights and and any other lights above deck too. I also use it on all the bulbs on my car, truck & trailer as road salt & corrosion is a major hassle up here.
I use connectors that are heat-shrinkable & contain an sealant/adhesive that flows and seals the connector to wire joint when heat is applied. Also an Ancor double crimp ratcheting crimper. If the connection is the type that is intended to be "unplugged" then use a little dielectric grease before snapping them together. Dielectric grease is good stuff to use in the sockets & bulb bases of running lights and and any other lights above deck too. I also use it on all the bulbs on my car, truck & trailer as road salt & corrosion is a major hassle up here.
Connectors etc
I use connectors that are heat-shrinkable & contain an sealant/adhesive that flows and seals the connector to wire joint when heat is applied. Also an Ancor double crimp ratcheting crimper. If the connection is the type that is intended to be "unplugged" then use a little dielectric grease before snapping them together. Dielectric grease is good stuff to use in the sockets & bulb bases of running lights and and any other lights above deck too. I also use it on all the bulbs on my car, truck & trailer as road salt & corrosion is a major hassle up here.
I use connectors that are heat-shrinkable & contain an sealant/adhesive that flows and seals the connector to wire joint when heat is applied. Also an Ancor double crimp ratcheting crimper. If the connection is the type that is intended to be "unplugged" then use a little dielectric grease before snapping them together. Dielectric grease is good stuff to use in the sockets & bulb bases of running lights and and any other lights above deck too. I also use it on all the bulbs on my car, truck & trailer as road salt & corrosion is a major hassle up here.
Thanks Ross and others
Instead of contact paste, protection is the answer. Dielectric grease is an insulator. This reminded me of electrical installations on some pre war high end motor yachts where the connections and all exposed metal had been "varnished" with something that looked like clear rubber cement. By the time I saw these boats in the early 70s, they were 40 years old. Lots of brass and bronze even where it didn't show. Trouble is, it was all attached to wood.
Instead of contact paste, protection is the answer. Dielectric grease is an insulator. This reminded me of electrical installations on some pre war high end motor yachts where the connections and all exposed metal had been "varnished" with something that looked like clear rubber cement. By the time I saw these boats in the early 70s, they were 40 years old. Lots of brass and bronze even where it didn't show. Trouble is, it was all attached to wood.
Fred on military equipment there was a varnish
that we sprayed on, after repairs, called moisture and fungus proofing. It had an amber color tone. burned off with a soldering iron. So many military installations were close to salt water and jungles that we did all we could to keep things dry.
that we sprayed on, after repairs, called moisture and fungus proofing. It had an amber color tone. burned off with a soldering iron. So many military installations were close to salt water and jungles that we did all we could to keep things dry.
Fred something that works for me
and i would like to know the pros and cons. I was soldering the wire tips before crimping them into butt connectors and sure enough the wire would break just outside of the crimp connector. These were 12v light led light circuits, 10 and 12 guage multi strand, and were getting plenty of moisture and vibration. So i started putting clear silicone into the butt connectors packing it like you pack grease into a bearing then putting the wire into the butt connector and then crimping it and have not had any problems. To go one further before crimping the wire into the butt connector i slid some shrink wrap down the wire, and after crimping the butt connector with the silicone in it i coated the area with silicone, slid the shrink wrap over the connection and heated it so it shrunk around the excess silicone around the wire and the butt connector. This is something i have been experimenting with and so far i have not had any problems. Did not mean to get to far off the original post.
and i would like to know the pros and cons. I was soldering the wire tips before crimping them into butt connectors and sure enough the wire would break just outside of the crimp connector. These were 12v light led light circuits, 10 and 12 guage multi strand, and were getting plenty of moisture and vibration. So i started putting clear silicone into the butt connectors packing it like you pack grease into a bearing then putting the wire into the butt connector and then crimping it and have not had any problems. To go one further before crimping the wire into the butt connector i slid some shrink wrap down the wire, and after crimping the butt connector with the silicone in it i coated the area with silicone, slid the shrink wrap over the connection and heated it so it shrunk around the excess silicone around the wire and the butt connector. This is something i have been experimenting with and so far i have not had any problems. Did not mean to get to far off the original post.
Soldering, Vibration and Wire support
Soldering your wire ends is as good as crimping, and better in many ways. Crimping and then soldering is best. Vibration on the boat is negligible unless the wiring is mounted on the diesel engine. It is important to support any wiring, and tie up all wiring into harnesses and cover to prevent chafe. Crimping is less desirable than soldering, unless you have a calibrated crimper, the wire gauge and terminal ends match, and you have strpped the wire correctly. A soldering iron does not need calibration, with skills and correct supplies, you'll know you have a mechanical strong and low resistance connection. Before you get your flaming going, consider the solder that exists in every electronic device you have on board. Why is the solder in your depthmeter or your galley light acceptable, but when a wire is soldered elsewhere on your boat, it is unacceptable? My wires are crimped with ring terminals, soldered with high quality solder, covered with adhesive lined heat shrink, exposed metal is sprayed with Boeshield after assembly, and all wire is supported and strain relieved. Tedious? Expensive? Time consuming? Just do it once and right.
Soldering your wire ends is as good as crimping, and better in many ways. Crimping and then soldering is best. Vibration on the boat is negligible unless the wiring is mounted on the diesel engine. It is important to support any wiring, and tie up all wiring into harnesses and cover to prevent chafe. Crimping is less desirable than soldering, unless you have a calibrated crimper, the wire gauge and terminal ends match, and you have strpped the wire correctly. A soldering iron does not need calibration, with skills and correct supplies, you'll know you have a mechanical strong and low resistance connection. Before you get your flaming going, consider the solder that exists in every electronic device you have on board. Why is the solder in your depthmeter or your galley light acceptable, but when a wire is soldered elsewhere on your boat, it is unacceptable? My wires are crimped with ring terminals, soldered with high quality solder, covered with adhesive lined heat shrink, exposed metal is sprayed with Boeshield after assembly, and all wire is supported and strain relieved. Tedious? Expensive? Time consuming? Just do it once and right.
I like solder, and I haven't had any
problems with breaking wires. Maybe the key is to crimp and solder. Oreana makes a good point about all the factory soldered connections on our gear. I did some work on a boat in Seattle years ago that carried 60 passengers for hire. The work had to be inspected and solder wasn't allowed by the USCG inspector, because of vibration. That got me started on the search for good alternatives. I haven't found anything as good as solder yet. Ross, thanks for the varnish tip. Maybe it's still available. I have tried silicone on wire connections, with and without shrink tube. I found, when I had to take some of the connections apart, that the wires were green and corroded. I think the vinegar smell in silicone indicates an acid that will corrode wires. I would prefer a dielectric grease or maybe Boeshield or Ross's Varnish to silicone.
problems with breaking wires. Maybe the key is to crimp and solder. Oreana makes a good point about all the factory soldered connections on our gear. I did some work on a boat in Seattle years ago that carried 60 passengers for hire. The work had to be inspected and solder wasn't allowed by the USCG inspector, because of vibration. That got me started on the search for good alternatives. I haven't found anything as good as solder yet. Ross, thanks for the varnish tip. Maybe it's still available. I have tried silicone on wire connections, with and without shrink tube. I found, when I had to take some of the connections apart, that the wires were green and corroded. I think the vinegar smell in silicone indicates an acid that will corrode wires. I would prefer a dielectric grease or maybe Boeshield or Ross's Varnish to silicone.
I'm with the solder guys
I'm with the solder guys on this. I crimp and solder all terminals. If a splice is absolutely necessary, I solder them. Then I use liquid electrical tape, and put heat shrink over that before the liquid tape dries. Start in the middle and as the tubing shrinks it will push the liquid tape out the ends. It can be a little bit messy, but I have never had a connection done this way fail. If you solder the wire, before crimping, and don't solder the connection, you have a very stiff wire, going into a terminal that can maybe move a little. If you solder the terminal you have basically one piece that is solid.
I'm with the solder guys on this. I crimp and solder all terminals. If a splice is absolutely necessary, I solder them. Then I use liquid electrical tape, and put heat shrink over that before the liquid tape dries. Start in the middle and as the tubing shrinks it will push the liquid tape out the ends. It can be a little bit messy, but I have never had a connection done this way fail. If you solder the wire, before crimping, and don't solder the connection, you have a very stiff wire, going into a terminal that can maybe move a little. If you solder the terminal you have basically one piece that is solid.
Check out this place too!
Check out Del City. I believe that they are located in your area, but they have warehouses all over the country. They have tinned wire at very good prices.
Check out Del City. I believe that they are located in your area, but they have warehouses all over the country. They have tinned wire at very good prices.
Banning Solder
I took some flak on another board about soldering wires, guy claimed he was a past member of the ABYC, what ever that means. Anyway, the problem that he had with soldered wires was that they would heat up and melt the solder if the wire got hot enough. I think that that might be a very desirable way to eliminate a high load situation, having the solder melt and disconnect a hot wire. I really believe that the insulation on the wire would melt before the solder. When I swage a large cable, say an 8 or larger, I always wonder how much resistance will develop at the crimped point over time and flexing. When I first crimp a wire, it holds itself perfectly in place for the solder follow-up. No one complains about end connectors not being flexible (like the alledged problem solder has with vibration). Bottom line for me is to support all wire runs so flexing or vibration problems are minimized or not present. Nice n easy, that sounds like a great technique for butt splicing. In aviation wiring, there is now a butt splice that uses solder and heatshrink in one piece and the special low heat solder is melted by the heat gun. So stick two wires into the butt connector, heat with a heat gun, and voila! connection and corrosion seal (but spendy). When all is said and done, the idea of wiring is to conduct electrons and not have to go back and fix it. Anything you do must stand the test of the real world. The ABYC sets minimum standards. If you have the time and money, crimp, solder and heat shrink.
I took some flak on another board about soldering wires, guy claimed he was a past member of the ABYC, what ever that means. Anyway, the problem that he had with soldered wires was that they would heat up and melt the solder if the wire got hot enough. I think that that might be a very desirable way to eliminate a high load situation, having the solder melt and disconnect a hot wire. I really believe that the insulation on the wire would melt before the solder. When I swage a large cable, say an 8 or larger, I always wonder how much resistance will develop at the crimped point over time and flexing. When I first crimp a wire, it holds itself perfectly in place for the solder follow-up. No one complains about end connectors not being flexible (like the alledged problem solder has with vibration). Bottom line for me is to support all wire runs so flexing or vibration problems are minimized or not present. Nice n easy, that sounds like a great technique for butt splicing. In aviation wiring, there is now a butt splice that uses solder and heatshrink in one piece and the special low heat solder is melted by the heat gun. So stick two wires into the butt connector, heat with a heat gun, and voila! connection and corrosion seal (but spendy). When all is said and done, the idea of wiring is to conduct electrons and not have to go back and fix it. Anything you do must stand the test of the real world. The ABYC sets minimum standards. If you have the time and money, crimp, solder and heat shrink.
Blowhards
Oreana, The guy was probably one of the blowhards who just hang around and spout off, on some of these boards, trying to impress you with all their knowledge. As I stated, I do all my connections and terminals the same way. I have NEVER had one fail, or give me any problems. Speaking of blowhards, and not someone on this board. Met some friends last summer over by Pennsacola. Anchored up and took the dinghy over to their boat for dinner. Friend of theirs, who to hear him talk know all there is to know about everything, grabbed the dinghy painter, gave us a hand up on the boat, and tied the dinghy off. Before the first drink was half gone, my girlfriend asked, "isn't that your dinghy floating off " Sure was. I now don't think this guy knows near as much as he claims he knows.
Oreana, The guy was probably one of the blowhards who just hang around and spout off, on some of these boards, trying to impress you with all their knowledge. As I stated, I do all my connections and terminals the same way. I have NEVER had one fail, or give me any problems. Speaking of blowhards, and not someone on this board. Met some friends last summer over by Pennsacola. Anchored up and took the dinghy over to their boat for dinner. Friend of theirs, who to hear him talk know all there is to know about everything, grabbed the dinghy painter, gave us a hand up on the boat, and tied the dinghy off. Before the first drink was half gone, my girlfriend asked, "isn't that your dinghy floating off " Sure was. I now don't think this guy knows near as much as he claims he knows.
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