New to working with broker and questions

[Ross]

Dave , credit check ? YES! deposit ? Hell No!

I knew a man in Connecticut that came off a week of cruising with his son, went to the Mercedes dealer and pointed to a Gull wing 300 and told the salesman that he would take it. A gift for his wife! The salesman doubted him, so the man wrote a check said to wait for it to clear the bamk title the car and deliver it. After the proper papers were made he left. The man was a neighbor to us and a multi millonaire in the early fifties. Dealers may have their doubts but they know that they can not afford to be rude, just prudent.

 

[mortyd]

broker

let's try this tack. when we started looking at boats, we knew almost nothing. a year later we had learned a lot and were ready - and did - spring at the right boat (they ain't all that common). there are problably many others out there ready like we were, and these folk are your real competition. by the way, i never saw a boat where listening to the engine would have made the slightest difference in our evaluation. it's like at boat shows where the tire kickers immediately go below and the real buyers immetdiately start talking price.

 

[picklefreek]

Question for Mortyd??

Do you know how to contact Ken Johnson? I think I found his wedding ring on my O23 last year while cleaning her up. I contacted Gene Colvin last year but no luck finding Ken. This would have been lost on my boat back in the early 90's (when he worked with Gene). Any help would be great and feel free to email me at chrisNOSPAM@fernstravel.com (remove the the NOSPAM of course). Thanks

 

[Dave C20469]

Ross

Ross,I really don't mean this to degenerate into an argument... but your example is once again not relevant. You talk about a guy that walked in, put a check down and waited for it to clear before delivery. If anyone did the same with a boat, we'd be ready to start the engine, no? Dave Crowleys/v Wind Dreamer

 

[mortyd]

broker

first. call gene at westbrook brewers, then look for johnson marine, i belive in west mystic. say hello for me.

 

[Brian D]

Mortyd stated...

"the broker knows what he has in hand and can spot a waste of time tire-kicker who either doesn't, or pretends not to, have an idea of the value of the boat in question."Very interesting. One's opinion of the value of the boat does not always equal that of the brokers opinion. Other than, say Yacht World, is there a reliable souce of information about the price of used boats? One needs as much information in the pricing to be able to counter the brokers offer without looking too much the fool, yes?I konw, what's the boat worth to me? But at the same time, what is the real worth. My current boat, acording to my surveyor, was a steal at the price I purchased it. I'd sure like that to happen again with my next investment.

 

[Steve]

Starting the Engine

I've bought two boats in the past 5 years. The engine wasn't started on either of them until there was a signed offer in hand, and the survey was being conducted. Think about it from the broker's perspective. If anything at all happened, then the engine would be his to repair or replace. I'm not here to take up for them, but from my experience, this is perfectly normal operating procedure.

 

[mortyd]

broker

brian, take the catalina 30, one of the most successful boats in history. seven thousand boats may sound like a lot, but it really isn't for the used boat buyer. seven thousand boats, spread out over twenty years of production, spread over the whole country means that you won't find all that many boats reasonably near to you, and the broker, like a smart retail buyer will recognize a winner and price and sell it as such. abstract listings of boats like yacht world have little, if anything, to do with the boat now sitting at the dealer's slip. really good boats, like most really good anything, sell themselves. ask any broker.

 

[Brian D]

I understand mortyd ...

and I wasn't trying to be argumentative. Hope it didn't come off as such.As a potential buyer, I need to be informed on what a fair and equitable price would be for a boat, not what I am willing to pay for it. I watch Yacht World very closely for a nice older boat. Take your example of the Catalina 30. There was a '74 forsale recently that piqued my interested. It was priced in the high 20s and no takers. It was eventually reduced to the low teens and now there is much interest. As an interested buyer, I cannot make an informed decision if I am not educated on the going, or average, prices for some boats. I see a '79 Cheoy Lee 35 in my marina for 48k. Not sure if that is a good price, reasonable price, or the broker trying to make his/her Proche payment. Even some Catalina 320 are being priced in the mid 60s, but I have seen several in the mid 40s also. Same baot, same year, similar amentities.So to me, being educated and informed is better that impulse urges. That's where I was coming from. Thanks for listening.

 

[mortyd]

broker

i understand you understand brian, but when we were shopping for a boat the few really nice ones went very quickly, like ours did when we bought her the first day listed. there just aren't that many nice older boats around, and those seriously looking know it. boy, did we see some dogs. we would have spent enough on surveryors saying stay away to buy a new 309.

 

[mortyd]

broker

by the way brian, i'll buy all the catalina 320's in the forties still afloat that you can find.

 

[nick maggio]

Catalina 34 for $71,000

Has any one seen the catalina 2006 34 loaded with options for $71,000,saw it at iboats.com I still can't believe its too good to be real.

 

[KennyH]

Thanks for all the replys. I learned a lot

I have learned a lot from your responses. First boat I bought in 1975 was through a broker. Second boat was New from Dealer. Third boat was from owner. I think I perfer buying from an owner. Seems to be less hassle. I would buy without sailing but not without running the engine. Guess it is the mechanic in me that would question any boat that the engine could not be started for almost any reason. Brokers could lose a sale from me for such actions. Just my 2 cents worth. Oh and some of you should remember an engine is never covered in any survey I have ever seen.

 

[Brian D]

Here you go mortyd...

;D

 

[mortyd]

broker

two things. first, ken johnson of west mystic, conn., certainly did a major test of the engine in our survey - among other things we wound up with a new alternator. second, you may consider a boat that has been used in charter still afloat, but i think that's pushing the envelope.

 

[John5961]

Deposit on a house?

Hey Dave, I've bought six or so houses in my life time and never had to give a deposit for the realtor to give my offer to the owner. I will never pay a deposit to a broker (or Real Estate Agent) just so he will give my offer to the owner. I had just as soon deal directly with the owner. All 3 boats I have owner were purchased without a deposit being involved.I'm sure there are outstanding brokers around, but I haven't met them yet.

 

[Dave C20469]

Seriously John?

John,I've bought seven houses in the last 15 years and all of them required earnest money when the offer was made. The amount was certainly not 10% of purchase price, but it did vary from $1,000 on my first little home to $10,000 on my most recent one. That includes homes in South Carolina, Michigan and Minnesota.Maybe 'deposit' was a bit of a misnomer, since earnest money isn't quite the same.Dave Crowleys/v Wind Dreamer

 

[Rick D]

Sea Trials and Deposits

With all the boats I have purchased, I have given a deposit (refundable) before having a sea trial. That included running the engine, testing electronics, etc. I have also obtained a seperate engine survey. I think that's a pretty standard practice in SoCal. As a private seller, I have sometimes done so, sometimes not. Depends on my feeling of seriousness on the part of the buyer. Rick D.PS: if it were an older boat, I might also pay for a sailmaker and rigger inspection unless I'd built replacement cost into the offer.

 

[Paul (Affinity C320)]

Deposit

Brian,I'm with you. When you buy a boat you need to inform yourself. There are listings available that tell you what boats have sold for and brokers have access to them. I have one on the boat, not here at the house. To get it you have to pay for it. Only problem is that does not tell you the condition of each boat. You may want to ask a broker for that listing just to help you. I think an honest broker would do it. You may want to search around on the internet. BUC book may also be helpful. I seem to recall that listing shows you the date it went on the market, the date it sold, the price it went on the market for and the selling price.I'm on my 5th boat and I needed earnest money for each offer. I'm on my fourth house and I needed earnest money for each offer.The key here is the contract. Put everything in the contract and you go through these in steps. Step one, You want a survey, if that is good you want the engine checked by a mechanic, if that is good, you want the rigging checked, if that is good you want the sails checked -- and you should also say that you must get an acceptable loan. Lastly, you want a sea trial. If anyone of these fails, you have the right to turn away and you get your earnest money back. None of this is hard, it just takes time. Also, the findings of each of these steps gives you the right to change your offer. And remember one thing -- you are paying for these services and the documentation is yours to use -- not the broker or the seller. You only share what you want to share. It may be on the market for 75K and the surveyor says it's worth 85K. You'd hardly want the seller to know that. On the other had, if it is being valued at 65K, you may want to share that.Fair winds to all.

 

[mortyd]

broker

what am i missing? so many of you are talking like it's walking into a toyota dealer with lots of camry's in stock or soon to arrive, instead of one boat - i'm guessing a very minimum of five years old - in front of you. if it's a dog, you can demand away, and probably get some demands met - if it's a dog. it it's the kind of boat any decent broker knows will sell quickly, get ready to start writing a check or stay ashore. and people tell us how lucky we were to get the boat we did. the chances of any of us knowing how to evealuate boats better than those who buy and sell them all day long are probably not so very big.