Hello everyone. I am new to this group, and sailing. My wife and I are thinking of buying a used sail boat and learning to sail. We are looking in the 22-27' range that can be moved on a trailer. We used to have a 19' powerboat I restored several years ago but we sold it when our Daughter was born. Now that she is 11 (and is now a good swimmer) we think we want to try sailing. I live 1 hour north of the Chesapeake so finding water is not a problem. We also used to enjoy weekends at Raystown Lake. Around 15 years ago I worked on a CSY 44 for a captain who delivered boats for a hobby. More or less I had a 1 month crash course in sailing as we moved it through the islands of the Caribbean. I also have sailed with my buddy in his flying Scott a couple times, so I know enough about sailing to realize I have a lot to learn. Anyway, I have been researching the Catalina 22's and they seam like a nice boat that I could get something from the 80's to restore, learn to sail on and keep her for a long time. Why I have come here is to get a couple questions answered before we take the leap. I have been reading a lot on buying used sailboats but want to know if there is anything particular to the Catalina 22's I should look out for when looking at used boats? Do the C-22's have flotation in them so they will still float full of water? Will they stand back up if turned over by an accident as we learn what not to do in Sailing? Thanks for your help in advance. Will R
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It depends
They will have positive flotation if the previous owner has put it in. It takes up a bunch of the storage space. It will right itself if you have the swing keel locked in the down posistion. (If that is the type you get.) I learned to sail on my 70' catalina 22 and it was a great boat to learn on. It is very forgiving on mistakes. I have never knocked mine down but have had it turn up into the wind serveral time because of my sailing mistakes. They also trailer easy. It is simple to get it onto and off the trailer, and step the mast. So, I my opinion it is a great boat to start on.
They will have positive flotation if the previous owner has put it in. It takes up a bunch of the storage space. It will right itself if you have the swing keel locked in the down posistion. (If that is the type you get.) I learned to sail on my 70' catalina 22 and it was a great boat to learn on. It is very forgiving on mistakes. I have never knocked mine down but have had it turn up into the wind serveral time because of my sailing mistakes. They also trailer easy. It is simple to get it onto and off the trailer, and step the mast. So, I my opinion it is a great boat to start on.
My comments . . .
The C22 does not have positive flotation, unless is has been added by a previous owner. I added flotation to mine. You would have to be in fairly rough conditions to knock the boat over. The keel has a locking mechanism, but it is not a fool proof device. I rarely lock mine down. The fin keel model is better at righting itself than the swing keel. The only C22's that I have heard tale of capsizing were racing and using a spinnaker in high winds. The boat ended up sinking in those instances. In higher winds the boat feels quite stable with just a reefed main, no jib. The boat has a full cabin, and therefore is quite a bit heavier than boats just 1-2 feet shorter. If you fell confident at handling the launching and set-up process, then you'll do fine. If the size is a concern, then look at the Venture 21 or the new(er) Hunter 212.
The C22 does not have positive flotation, unless is has been added by a previous owner. I added flotation to mine. You would have to be in fairly rough conditions to knock the boat over. The keel has a locking mechanism, but it is not a fool proof device. I rarely lock mine down. The fin keel model is better at righting itself than the swing keel. The only C22's that I have heard tale of capsizing were racing and using a spinnaker in high winds. The boat ended up sinking in those instances. In higher winds the boat feels quite stable with just a reefed main, no jib. The boat has a full cabin, and therefore is quite a bit heavier than boats just 1-2 feet shorter. If you fell confident at handling the launching and set-up process, then you'll do fine. If the size is a concern, then look at the Venture 21 or the new(er) Hunter 212.
my first boat
I moved up to an '82 c22 two years ago from a 14' wet boat. It was like new when we bought it and I've only done bottom painting and minor maintenance. I sail on a shallow lake that whips up pretty quickly to 3-4' waves and I've only had minor novice problems. It's a great boat for family of 3 because you're sailing within a few minutes of stepping the mast.
I moved up to an '82 c22 two years ago from a 14' wet boat. It was like new when we bought it and I've only done bottom painting and minor maintenance. I sail on a shallow lake that whips up pretty quickly to 3-4' waves and I've only had minor novice problems. It's a great boat for family of 3 because you're sailing within a few minutes of stepping the mast.
Great Boat to learn and grow with
My first boat was the cat 22 and it is a great boat to learn with . You will have to really work hard to get into trouble with it and common sailing errors willonly round the boat up and you will be fine when your pulse returns to normal. You will think that you had a close call but it is really hard to get into trouble with the cat 22 and a little common sense. I use my in the coatal waters of Alaska and stay home when the wind is whipping up to much. catalina 22 are solidly bulit and a lot of fun. You your wife and daughter will even fit well for weekend trips. I have 2 girls and it is a little small sowe head for islands and put them a shore in a tent and the wife and I sleep on the boat. Herb
My first boat was the cat 22 and it is a great boat to learn with . You will have to really work hard to get into trouble with it and common sailing errors willonly round the boat up and you will be fine when your pulse returns to normal. You will think that you had a close call but it is really hard to get into trouble with the cat 22 and a little common sense. I use my in the coatal waters of Alaska and stay home when the wind is whipping up to much. catalina 22 are solidly bulit and a lot of fun. You your wife and daughter will even fit well for weekend trips. I have 2 girls and it is a little small sowe head for islands and put them a shore in a tent and the wife and I sleep on the boat. Herb
Take your time before purchasing
I had been sailing for 10 years, and researched many boats before I chose the Catalina 22. I think they are the best choice for a trailer sailor. Bigger boats are nice and roomy, but they are not as easy to tow and launch. If you are planning to trailer frequently, the C-22 would be a great choice. Before you purchase a boat, I would recommend getting to know some sailors in your area...local yacht/sailing clubs are a good place to meet folks. Most sailors love to talk sailing, and you will get the perspective of a dedicated group of people, and many sailors are would be more than willing to take you and your family out for a cruise. I have never attended a sailing school, but it would be a good idea to take a basic sailing course. Floatation is not as much of an issue as knowledge. The 22 is a safe boat, but it is only as safe as the skipper's knowledge of sailing. While learning, avoid taking your family out in windy conditions, stay away from the downwind shore, and double check all of you rigging (especially the rings that hold the pins in place) before you take her out. Equipment failure is as much of a safety issue as floatation. If you are not close to the downwind shore; you have more time to resolve problems, in the event of equipment failure and poor decisions. The first time I took my boat out in a fresh breeze, my rudder broke, and I was close to the downwind shore. If it hadn't been for a fellow sailor towing me, I would have been blown onto the shore. David
I had been sailing for 10 years, and researched many boats before I chose the Catalina 22. I think they are the best choice for a trailer sailor. Bigger boats are nice and roomy, but they are not as easy to tow and launch. If you are planning to trailer frequently, the C-22 would be a great choice. Before you purchase a boat, I would recommend getting to know some sailors in your area...local yacht/sailing clubs are a good place to meet folks. Most sailors love to talk sailing, and you will get the perspective of a dedicated group of people, and many sailors are would be more than willing to take you and your family out for a cruise. I have never attended a sailing school, but it would be a good idea to take a basic sailing course. Floatation is not as much of an issue as knowledge. The 22 is a safe boat, but it is only as safe as the skipper's knowledge of sailing. While learning, avoid taking your family out in windy conditions, stay away from the downwind shore, and double check all of you rigging (especially the rings that hold the pins in place) before you take her out. Equipment failure is as much of a safety issue as floatation. If you are not close to the downwind shore; you have more time to resolve problems, in the event of equipment failure and poor decisions. The first time I took my boat out in a fresh breeze, my rudder broke, and I was close to the downwind shore. If it hadn't been for a fellow sailor towing me, I would have been blown onto the shore. David
A couple thoughts
Our C22 was/is our first boat and it is great fun. I have three more suggestions for you. Make sure everyone on board is wearing a life preserver - personal flotation. We went with self-inflating units. They are light weight and comfortable and that makes them wearable all the time, even when it is hot out. They are expensive ($150) but well worth it. If you are not wearing the preserver it cannot save you. Second item is to equip your C22 with a reliable outboard so that if you get in trouble (lose a rudder, etc) you can get safely back. Third, call Catalina Direct and get a "parts book" from them. The are a great source of everything for your C22. Randy
Our C22 was/is our first boat and it is great fun. I have three more suggestions for you. Make sure everyone on board is wearing a life preserver - personal flotation. We went with self-inflating units. They are light weight and comfortable and that makes them wearable all the time, even when it is hot out. They are expensive ($150) but well worth it. If you are not wearing the preserver it cannot save you. Second item is to equip your C22 with a reliable outboard so that if you get in trouble (lose a rudder, etc) you can get safely back. Third, call Catalina Direct and get a "parts book" from them. The are a great source of everything for your C22. Randy
Catalina 22, 25, or 27???
I guess your choice in boat size is directly related to how and where you plan on sailing. If afternoon jaunts on the local lake is mostly what you'll be doing, then the C22 is probably your best choice. If weekending and/or slipping on the Cheasapeake with a family of four, then a C25 might be best. Since you mentioned trailering, I think we can rule out the C27 due to its size and weight, but both the C22 and C25 would fit this category.
I guess your choice in boat size is directly related to how and where you plan on sailing. If afternoon jaunts on the local lake is mostly what you'll be doing, then the C22 is probably your best choice. If weekending and/or slipping on the Cheasapeake with a family of four, then a C25 might be best. Since you mentioned trailering, I think we can rule out the C27 due to its size and weight, but both the C22 and C25 would fit this category.
Thanks!
Thanks for all the replies. As far as towing weight, I have a Dodge Dually with a Cummins, I can tow around 11,000 lbs
, 9000 lbs if I take the pickup camper along for the ride. My concern is most of the slips I recall using in my power boat days were short and a large boat that needed lots of water to launch would be a problem. I am also looking at the Macgregor 25-27's, but in my "learning experience" before buying I have noticed that the Catalina's seem to have a higher resale value as well as a larger “hard core” following. I also own a 5th wheel camper and realize resale value and quality seem to go hand in hand, but I am sure proper maintenance can make one boat much better then another regardless of manufacture when looking for something to restore. To be honest I have not seen many Catalina 25’s yet with a swing keel in my search. I have also noticed if I wanted to afford slip fees (and be stuck in one spot) there are some very good deals on 28’-30’ boats running around the same price as a 22’ trailer sailor. To afford slip fees I would have to sell the 5th wheel RV which wouldn’t happen, its fun on its own. It will be some time before we buy so I can learn more. besides this summer is already booked up. That would give me a winter project for the new heated workshop. My shop limits me to 10’ high and 30’ long on the trailer if I want to store it inside. Anyway, thanks for the help, and keep it coming if you want!
Thanks for all the replies. As far as towing weight, I have a Dodge Dually with a Cummins, I can tow around 11,000 lbs
, 9000 lbs if I take the pickup camper along for the ride. My concern is most of the slips I recall using in my power boat days were short and a large boat that needed lots of water to launch would be a problem. I am also looking at the Macgregor 25-27's, but in my "learning experience" before buying I have noticed that the Catalina's seem to have a higher resale value as well as a larger “hard core” following. I also own a 5th wheel camper and realize resale value and quality seem to go hand in hand, but I am sure proper maintenance can make one boat much better then another regardless of manufacture when looking for something to restore. To be honest I have not seen many Catalina 25’s yet with a swing keel in my search. I have also noticed if I wanted to afford slip fees (and be stuck in one spot) there are some very good deals on 28’-30’ boats running around the same price as a 22’ trailer sailor. To afford slip fees I would have to sell the 5th wheel RV which wouldn’t happen, its fun on its own. It will be some time before we buy so I can learn more. besides this summer is already booked up. That would give me a winter project for the new heated workshop. My shop limits me to 10’ high and 30’ long on the trailer if I want to store it inside. Anyway, thanks for the help, and keep it coming if you want!Physical and Mental help offered. help offered
You've been to Raystown, go three more mountains further to Prince Gallitzin State Park. Located there is a group of trailer sailors with experience and knowledge about every trailer sailboat ever built. We've owned portable boats from 14 to 28 feet with experiences going back 30 years. Arrangement can be made for you and your family to experience sailing on a 22 or 25 if you are interested.
You've been to Raystown, go three more mountains further to Prince Gallitzin State Park. Located there is a group of trailer sailors with experience and knowledge about every trailer sailboat ever built. We've owned portable boats from 14 to 28 feet with experiences going back 30 years. Arrangement can be made for you and your family to experience sailing on a 22 or 25 if you are interested.
Height and Length
I have a '75 C22, which is about 10' high at the stern pulpit. It is 30' long from transom to tongue on the trailer. It has to be kept outside under a tarp for the winter. I couldn't do much work on it during the winter because of weather conditions. Being able to keep a boat inside and work on it over the winter means more sailing time during warm weather. Like my wife says, bigger isn't always better
I have a '75 C22, which is about 10' high at the stern pulpit. It is 30' long from transom to tongue on the trailer. It has to be kept outside under a tarp for the winter. I couldn't do much work on it during the winter because of weather conditions. Being able to keep a boat inside and work on it over the winter means more sailing time during warm weather. Like my wife says, bigger isn't always better
nice boats
I think that you are on track with a 22 for your first sailboat. I have a Capri 22, very similar boat with a little more sail area and a little less cabin. It's my first boat, and has been easy to learn on and forgiving of mistakes. I've never sailed the regular 22, but I imagine it's much the same. Nice to hear about Raystown, too. I have family in Altoona, so I've been there a few times, although not recently. Great place. I'm trying to make time this summer to go out fishing there on an uncle's pontoon boat. Good luck to you finding the right boat. Watercolor's offer sounds like a good one. I ended up with the right boat for me by dumb luck, but it would have been nice to do a few more test sails and make a more educated decision. You can have all the info on a boat that the net and hearsay has to offer, but it'll feel right when you get on board the right boat.
I think that you are on track with a 22 for your first sailboat. I have a Capri 22, very similar boat with a little more sail area and a little less cabin. It's my first boat, and has been easy to learn on and forgiving of mistakes. I've never sailed the regular 22, but I imagine it's much the same. Nice to hear about Raystown, too. I have family in Altoona, so I've been there a few times, although not recently. Great place. I'm trying to make time this summer to go out fishing there on an uncle's pontoon boat. Good luck to you finding the right boat. Watercolor's offer sounds like a good one. I ended up with the right boat for me by dumb luck, but it would have been nice to do a few more test sails and make a more educated decision. You can have all the info on a boat that the net and hearsay has to offer, but it'll feel right when you get on board the right boat.
Lifesaving lesson to New To Sailing
From experience, I can tell you the C22 can be knocked down & yes it will right itself. I was knocked down due to my own inexperience & don't want to do it again!! Three of us were out in a wind that obviously was way too much for us & we learned a lot. Streamers were blowing off the wave tops. When we broached, it happened so fast that all 3 of us were catapaulted over the life line & deposited a few feet from the boat. The boat was floating high in the water & the water line was not close to the companion way. The boards were in place. It didn't want to right itself so I swam around to the keel side & had to reach up as high as I could to pull down on the keel. Shorter arms would't reach it. As soon as it started to move I got out of the way & it came up really fast. I think the effect of the sails on the water had to be broken, like a suction. In the meantime the other two had climbed aboard & hanging on as it came up. We hadn't had any time to uncleat the sheets so as soon as the boat was back on it's feet it took off like a rocket. I tried to catch up to it & that was a mistake as I completely wore myself out. They had to lower the sails (not easy) & start the motor in order to pick me up. The only water in the boat must have come through the hull to deck joint. The boat can sink without floatation. Listen up, there is a lesson here!!
From experience, I can tell you the C22 can be knocked down & yes it will right itself. I was knocked down due to my own inexperience & don't want to do it again!! Three of us were out in a wind that obviously was way too much for us & we learned a lot. Streamers were blowing off the wave tops. When we broached, it happened so fast that all 3 of us were catapaulted over the life line & deposited a few feet from the boat. The boat was floating high in the water & the water line was not close to the companion way. The boards were in place. It didn't want to right itself so I swam around to the keel side & had to reach up as high as I could to pull down on the keel. Shorter arms would't reach it. As soon as it started to move I got out of the way & it came up really fast. I think the effect of the sails on the water had to be broken, like a suction. In the meantime the other two had climbed aboard & hanging on as it came up. We hadn't had any time to uncleat the sheets so as soon as the boat was back on it's feet it took off like a rocket. I tried to catch up to it & that was a mistake as I completely wore myself out. They had to lower the sails (not easy) & start the motor in order to pick me up. The only water in the boat must have come through the hull to deck joint. The boat can sink without floatation. Listen up, there is a lesson here!!
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