New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advice

[cobaltblue26]

Hi all!
I'm new to sailing - hubby has taken some courses and already crewed on Chesapeake Bay. We're attending the Annapolis sailboat show in a few weeks, and wanted to know which boat makers/brands we should focus on to take a look and become familiar with. I'm starting my research in order to purchase a sailboat over the next year or two...most likely used. Based on the following criteria, can anyone suggest models/makes/years to investigate at the show? We'd like: a 30- 36' well-built/safe boat that holds its value, has the safety and necessary controls and technolog; we will do mostly coastal cruising/day sailing (and possibly on a deep lake), but would like a comfortable galley and berth to fit 4-6 people for overnighters, a "zippy" boat (not necessarily a racer...), low draft (less than 4' 6"), stable and easy for 2 to manage. I'm looking for a "toyota camry" reliable work horse rather than the flashy top of the line "lexus". I'd like to look at the newer boats in Annapolis, but keeping in mind that we probably couldn't afford those right now. So, for now, we'd also focus on used boats for the first few years of sailing. I've heard and read that Pearsons are good, as well as Catalinas. For those of you familiar with these boats, what year and model are considered the "best" (see criteria above). In other words, what's the "golden year" for these makes (best configuration and safety, ease of use, desirable, holds value? Current budget is flexible; would prefer under 30K, but willing to go up to 40's if that's the best boat/year/model/condition. Any advice on both issues would be greatly appreciated!Thanks a bunch!

 

[jimoc]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

I'm gonna bet the most recommended is a Cat 30, altho I'd say a Cat 27 is a better "start boat". Have fun !

 

[Rblack]

If you like Pearson , I have a ( 31foot) ,1989 in solid condition for sale and can be viewed on Maryland , eastern shore location. Price is $37,000
Extremely well cared for and yard maintained . I sailed her around the Delmarva Peninsula this year with a crew of 3 . All 4 were very comfortable and our trip was flawless
Bob
Cell 610-574-3121

 

[ifmdalvey]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

I am moving up in size and selling my 1987 Pearson 31. Its been a great boat with some nice woodwork that i dont think you will find in the Catalina. Internally the Pearson is really big for a 31, lots of headroom and space.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Instead of trying to sell you a boat...

Get the show brochure and look at the manufacturers listed, and the size of boats they are showing. Do some looking online at the boats to see what you may like.

Most all boats in that size range will be represented by what I'd call starter or entry level boats anyway, since the builders have moved up in size for the Lexus models, so anything in that size would still be your Toyota type.

Do your homework and do some planning and have a great time.

 

[cobaltblue26]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Hi All -
Thank you for the advice and interest so far. No, I'm definitely not at the buying stage yet...not for another year or two at least. However, I do research anything I purchase ad nauseum. Stu, great advice. I'll do some more research prior. However, I would love to hear from seasoned sailers who've handled various boats...would love to know about which ones fit my criteria above, as well boats that are well-made...don't break down easily or often, etc. I'd also like to mention here that I'm physically handicapped (muscular dystrophy). I intend on doing the nav work, some tiller or wheel work, and letting hubby and any crew do the rest . So, ease of sailing, larger crew area, wider "walk-around" are all high on my list. Please, seasoned sailers, give me your expertise and advice!!!

 

[Joe]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

You need a budget in mind. Or at least the understanding of the costs of yacht ownership.

If you're thinking "production" boats, meaning produced in large quantities and sold through various dealerships .... then you've come to the right forum. Most of us own that type of vessel, with a few exceptions. The big three in the production field right now are Catalina, Hunter and Beneteau. So you might begin you research by looking through their websites at the differnent models they offer. Older versions of those models will be the direction to go.

Sailboats do not depreciate like cars. Condition is much more important than age.

The cost of purchasing a boat does not include many of the amenities you would expect. Ground tackle, electronics-navigation and communications, safety gear, maintenance and protective equipment, spinnaker gear, canvas.... including the all important dodger, etc. With a new boat you will have to order all these things. With a used boat, they may most likely are... but check the owner's list to be sure and compare it with the final inspection.

The most expesive item to repair, upgrade or replace is the engine. Sails are very expsive but are not critical to your immediate happines... a replacement schedule is common practice... as is the standing and running rigging... but you aren't going to have any fun without a reliabe diesel.

The cost of maintenance and storage can be easily underestimated. These items include: slip or mooring fees, insurance, bottom maintenance by a dive service, periodic replacement of worn gear, registration fees (minimal in Ca) and property tax (in some areas)

If you're boat purchase budget is in the $50-60k range, look for a 20 year old 32-36 footer. I have friend that owns a Catalina 34 that I would be proud to own... he paid $46k and the boat came with everything you need for coastal trips to catalina or ensenada. His slip fees in the Shelter Island area are about $500/month.

This is just an overview...... be open minded... and understand that there are many fine boats available whose manufacturer has left the business. O'Day, Cal, Ericson, etc.....

 

[cobaltblue26]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Thanks, Joe! you've mentioned all of the items I was trying to explain above (the "necessary items"). My budget (right now...) is 25-30K, but if those items and engine were replaced, then I'd inch up to the 40's. I just need a "push" of which direction to go. And, you're correct, the cost of maintaining/docking a boat is not inexpensive...which is why I'm going to learn all I can first, crew on other's boats ( ), and wait a few years. At the Annapolis boat show, I just wanted to look at the "eye candy", but file away a few things that caught my eye for a future purchase. Do you have any other suggestions of makers/models/years? I've tried to read reviews by a variety of experts, but am getting lost in the details. So, a "short list" would definitely help! thanks! CB26

 

[gpd955]

Do your homework and do some boatplanning and have a great time.

Great advice.......AND as an added bonus, boat shopping is incredibly fun and you learn a heck of a lot, get great ideas, and on occasion you find EXACTLY what you are looking for. You can look at a boatload of boats in 1-2 years so savor it! And this is a great place to bounce your ideas around since there are plenty of members with all different brands, sizes, experience and opinions and we all love to boat shop!

 

[cobaltblue26]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Jack, your note made me smile...for that's what I LOVE to do...research, shop, and shop s'more. I did the same thing regarding real estate...because of my research, reading books, and learning how to reno a house (from drywall to crown moulding), I was able to sell my house FSBO just 3 months ago for full asking price! However, I'm tired right now after my move to the NE, hence asking questions here for some direction and focus. Thanks, and if you could give me your "top 5" makes/models/years, I'd appreciate it! Cheers! CB26

 

[CarlN]

The great thing about Annapolis is what you can learn just by listening to folks on the dock. When buying a house it's "location, location, location". When buying a boat it's "build quality, build quality, build quality".

Frankly, some boats today are designed for a 10 year life. The builder can tell the first owner that the resale value will be great when he sells in five years. No one talks much about the resale value in 10 years. Other boats are built to last 50 years - Hinckley, Shannon, Sabre look about the same at 20 years as they did at 5 years if they've had good owners.

A good question to ask a sales guy at a show is how would you replace the fuel tank or the engine. Somewhere between year 15 and year 25 that's probably going to happen. Some builders think ahead and everything lifts out. Other boats require chain saw surgery to the cabin.

Here's a great looking Sabre that would probably sell in your price range. A little more draft than you'd like at 5' 3". These are really comfortable and sail great. Easy for two to handle. Four can cruise comfortably. Sleeping six with all their stuff is hard even at 40'.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/Sabre-Mark-III-2280057/Oriental/NC/United-States

Carl

 

[Ross]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

If you are planning coastal cruises with accomdations for 3 to 6 people Give consideration to the galley capacity and the holding tank capacity. The building code here dictates the size of the septic system by the number of bedrooms not by the number of bathrooms.
Galley capacity includes food and beverage storage in addition to cooking. We rebuilt a 30 foot boat for 2 or 3 people overnight and we can entertain as many as ten at dock side.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Some other things to consider:

1. Do the OIL DIPSTICK TEST on every boat you board. If it is easy to get to the dipstick, then potentially good service may have been made to the engine. This is true for new and old yachts. I once had a bareboat that required me to disassemble the aft cabin to get to the dipstick. Think the oil level had been checked regularly? Hmm... On my boat, I open a little door and it's right there. Not that my builder is perfect, 'cuz the first Mark II models eliminated the door until they wised up.

2. Internet and Association support: Many, if not all, boats have websites, plus this great one. However, many individual classes have far greater representation than others. Do some checking around and visit the websites of the boats you are looking at to find out if you're gonna get the support of "the skippers you have been there, done that." You WILL have questions. Will they be answered in depth with long term support?

3. Don't get carried away with "down below amenities" only. Be very careful to check the hardware "upstairs" out very carefully. Two boats of the same size (and displacement) many have substantially different winches, traveler and block sizes. In most cases, bigger is better.

4. Since you're eventually going to look for a used boat, recognize that what you'll see at the boat show may not be anything near what older boats will be. New trends and fads crop up regularly. Many "fads" or design trends don't work at sea. IMHO, a boat with a galley taking up one whole side of below-decks is a disaster waiting to happen and a horrible use of space. Think of what it would be like to be down below when you're actually out sailing and heeling. Check carefully for handholds, new boat or old.

5. Don't get carried away with electronics. Consider them commodities. You can navigate just as well with a handheld GPS than one that sits in front of the wheel and requires you to stand up on a ladder to see forward.

6. Anchoring gear: I know it's early for you, but whatever you look at, keep in mind how your crew (not you, right?) will be able to use the gear. Check the door to the anchor locker and how stuff is stored. There may be many good ideas you can use for when you buy your boat. You'll also see some stupid and rotten and useless concepts, guaranteed.

7. Mainsail: Most new boats are coming with in mast furling. Would be nice to have in your situation, may not be available on used boats in your price range, but would be nice for you and hubby to have.

8. Take pictures and brochures. Bring a backpack!

9. Head location: Two choices -- forward for midships (aft). We love our aft head and it may be the right choice for you. Think long and hard about it. Not too many boats in the 30 -36 foot range have aft heads.

10. How to look at a used boat: There was a superb post here on this forum about this subject. I have it bookmarked on my other computer and will find it and post it for you, unless someone beat me to it!

Not necessarily a top ten list, but that's what comes to mind now.

Enjoy the show.

 

[Stu Jackson]

...and if you could give me your "top 5" makes/models/years, I'd appreciate it! Cheers! CB26

Doesn't quite work that way with boats. Some builders change from year to year. Others keep "improving" the boat based on owner's feedback and have had looooong production runs. Some older boats have built up a cult-like status which is well deserved.

Someone once asked a boat owner:

"What's the BEST boat?"

"Mine," he said.

 

[gpd955]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Stu, based on the size requirement I was going to go with Catalina 30, 310, 320, 34 and 36 as the top 5.....but I am quite partial!!

 

[Kings Gambit]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Go and physically look at this Pearson 34 as a starting point.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=76965&url=

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

CB26-
As long as you are going to be at the boat show come join the SBO gathering at Pussers on Friday. See the sticky on this forum. We would all love to meet you!

 

[jimmcgee]

CB26,
We did the same thing and looked at the new boats in Annapolis to get an idea of what we liked and didn't like. It's a great way to get a feel for the different styles of boats and interior layouts.

I think of a lot of finding the right boat for you is what "feels" right to you. Keep in mind that what feels right for you might not feel right for me. That's why there are so many different boats out there.

After seeing all the new boats at the show you're in for a shock when you start looking at used boats. You'll be amazed at how abused some boats are. Neglect is generally a bad sign because they probably neglected maintenance as well. The trick is figure out what can be cured with cleaning vs. what can only be cured with dollars. You'll hear over and over that when you get close to buying get a survey. That's the best advice you'll ever hear.

It sounds like you're on the Chesapeake Bay. So you'll also want to check out marinas and marina pricing as it can effect what boat you'll buy. Marinas on the bay encompass everything from mini resorts to umm, rustic. Walk the docks, talk to people who are in the marina and ask their opinion. Check out the rest rooms and showers. If your husband is crewing he may have made friends he wants to be near.

Some marinas price by the foot, some by the slip size. Going from a 30 to a 32 can bump you from a 30 to a 40 foot slip - a big difference in cost. If that's the case where you want to go you'll want to factor that into your buying decision. Find out all the costs at that marina. Slip fees, winter storage, haul out, electric, cable, etc. Are there any restrictions on working on your boat during the winter months?

You referred to yourself as physically handicapped. You might want to consider later model boats with open transoms (that's all you'll see in the new boats at the show) and a marina with floating docks. Getting on and off the boat will be a lot easier if you're backed in to a floating dock. Also consider how difficult it is to move past the wheel. On our boat you climb onto the seat, others have a little more room making it easier to get past.

And if you start feeling overwhelmed by the whole thing get a couple of painkillers at Pusser's and all will be well.

Jim

 

[cobaltblue26]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Loved this!!!! That's my aim...once I've found the perfect boat for me (as I did with the house I just sold...), it IS going to be the "best"!

 

[cobaltblue26]

Re: New to sailing, attending Annapolis boat show need advic

Hi All - wow!!! I'm sooooo appreciative of your time and insight. Jimm, thanks for the thoughtful reply with regards to my handicap and maneuvering about the boat. I hadn't considered that there were different/bigger/open transoms! that will be a "must" on my shortlist. Jimm, Stu, Carl, King, Ross, GPD, Princess, and everyone else who responded - your advice is great...I'm starting a notebook with advice and nuances I wouldn't have previously thought of or considered. Great advice about the engine - I read one review of a boat where the engine was so difficult to get to, that indeed, a chainsaw was necessary! The dipstick test is a simple, but telling one. I also liked the info. about the cabin layout. I'll be buying a boat to sail, not to be the next "best chef in America"!
Princess, I'd LOVE to be able to visit with your group...but can't, as we'll be arriving very late Fri. night. Saturday is the USNA fb game (son is attending the USNA!). So, we were going to spend Sunday at the boat show. Is your group meeting at any other time? Again, everyone, I'm so very excited to have such good advice and responses...thank you so very much! If anything else pops up in your mind to share, please do! Blessings,, CB26