The local marine store in Portland, Maine is having their spring sale, so I went to buy bottom paint. They had the Seamate Single Season Ablative paint that I used last year but they also had Aquagard paint. This is an eco friendly paint, that I never heard of before. The coolest thing is that it comes in a number of colors, so I bought a gallon of Shark White. I thought it would look good, considering my boat is slightly off white with a gray waterline and dodger/mainsail cover (1989 Catalina 30), compared to the typical blue paint. Finally, my question, has anyone used this paint before or have info about it. Check out the link to website.
New to me bottom paint
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Jim the expert
The latest info on bottom paint is they are making it out of a newer technology that makes the bottom so slippery, nothing could stick to it. It's on the order of teflon. There is nothing wrong with eco-friendly. Besides, you bought the stuff, so use it. And if you have any left, sent it to me!!!LOL
The latest info on bottom paint is they are making it out of a newer technology that makes the bottom so slippery, nothing could stick to it. It's on the order of teflon. There is nothing wrong with eco-friendly. Besides, you bought the stuff, so use it. And if you have any left, sent it to me!!!LOL
Bottom Paint
Haven't used it nor do i know anyone who has. I would strongly disagree with Jim from NJ. We have to care about the water that we sail in. Next year I will coat the bottom. I'll research all EU approved bottom paint that is available here. Their standards, like most everything else, is higher than ours. Bottom paint is highly toxic to humans and fish. many of the chemicals not just prevent growth on our boats but destroy shellfish. Let everyone know how it works. Remember, the more you sail your boat the less growth you will have. Good luck! SH
Haven't used it nor do i know anyone who has. I would strongly disagree with Jim from NJ. We have to care about the water that we sail in. Next year I will coat the bottom. I'll research all EU approved bottom paint that is available here. Their standards, like most everything else, is higher than ours. Bottom paint is highly toxic to humans and fish. many of the chemicals not just prevent growth on our boats but destroy shellfish. Let everyone know how it works. Remember, the more you sail your boat the less growth you will have. Good luck! SH
Jim is probably right
Usually in order to make something eco-friendly, by definition it wont harm the environment. Well, isnt that exactly what we are trying to do, harm the environment, even on a limited scale? Call it what you want, but you are trying to prevent life from living on your boat or killing it off if necessary. Im not saying that the eco-friendly stuff wont work, but I do have my reservations. I have great concerns about the environment, but there is a point of going too far. Go to a large marina with hundreds of boats with bottom paint and walk the piers. Do you see lots of fish? Do they look retarded? or cripled? If they didnt like the neighborhood, they would move out or die off. Not trying to be a smart ass, just practical. Logic dictates that when someone finds the 'magic bullet' everyone will be making the same product or end up going out of business. Tony B
Usually in order to make something eco-friendly, by definition it wont harm the environment. Well, isnt that exactly what we are trying to do, harm the environment, even on a limited scale? Call it what you want, but you are trying to prevent life from living on your boat or killing it off if necessary. Im not saying that the eco-friendly stuff wont work, but I do have my reservations. I have great concerns about the environment, but there is a point of going too far. Go to a large marina with hundreds of boats with bottom paint and walk the piers. Do you see lots of fish? Do they look retarded? or cripled? If they didnt like the neighborhood, they would move out or die off. Not trying to be a smart ass, just practical. Logic dictates that when someone finds the 'magic bullet' everyone will be making the same product or end up going out of business. Tony B
Aquaguard
I think some are making too much out of the "environmentally friendly" jargon. From MSDS data, it is apparent the environmental benefit is limited solely to the absence of VOCs as this paint is water based. The advertized env friendliness has nothing to do with the marine environment but is limited solely to organic vapors in ambient air when applying it. The VOC components of paint are gone long before you splash the boat so it's efficacy and marine environmental impact(s) as an antifouling should be equivalent to the same type copper based paint typically used. Eco-friendly and effectiveness don't have to be mutually exclusive.
I think some are making too much out of the "environmentally friendly" jargon. From MSDS data, it is apparent the environmental benefit is limited solely to the absence of VOCs as this paint is water based. The advertized env friendliness has nothing to do with the marine environment but is limited solely to organic vapors in ambient air when applying it. The VOC components of paint are gone long before you splash the boat so it's efficacy and marine environmental impact(s) as an antifouling should be equivalent to the same type copper based paint typically used. Eco-friendly and effectiveness don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Good Luck
Let us know if it works in the fall. Maine boats aren't in the water very long anyway, so it wont be a disaster if it doesn't. Why wouldn't you use it if it works?
Let us know if it works in the fall. Maine boats aren't in the water very long anyway, so it wont be a disaster if it doesn't. Why wouldn't you use it if it works?
Aquagard
Practical Sailor has been testing bottom paints March 2008 issue. They gave Aquagard Alumi-Koat a recommended rating @ $149. Flotida rating good at 6 months; Connecticut fair at 6 months... no copper... no anti-slime... multi-season rating. Aquagard Bottom (no rating) Paint $99. FLA/CT fair @ 6 months... 26% copper... single season. Best choice @ 6 and 18 months was Micron 66. Let us know how it did... when the dust settles!
Practical Sailor has been testing bottom paints March 2008 issue. They gave Aquagard Alumi-Koat a recommended rating @ $149. Flotida rating good at 6 months; Connecticut fair at 6 months... no copper... no anti-slime... multi-season rating. Aquagard Bottom (no rating) Paint $99. FLA/CT fair @ 6 months... 26% copper... single season. Best choice @ 6 and 18 months was Micron 66. Let us know how it did... when the dust settles!
A little experiment
I was thinking about doing a little controlled study with the paint. I am going to leave a portion of the keel as is and paint the same area on the other side of the keel with the Aquagard. At the end of the season, I let you all know if there was a difference. I will do the same thing with the rudder.
I was thinking about doing a little controlled study with the paint. I am going to leave a portion of the keel as is and paint the same area on the other side of the keel with the Aquagard. At the end of the season, I let you all know if there was a difference. I will do the same thing with the rudder.
Define "Eco-Friendly"
Having been there, done that, wrote it and sold it, "Environmentally Friendly" is hogwash. A marketing tool. Taking a quote from C. Edwards Deming, the father of Total Quality Management (TQM), "Before you can measure it, you must define it!" So, define "Environmentally friendly". Won't kill babies? Won't kill fish in less than 10,000 years? Contains < 1PBM (part per billion)which is known to cause zebra mussels to turn white? I think you get my point. Folks, even clean potable WATER will kill you! (see the link below) NOT that we should go back to TBT-based paints but there has to be a "Reasonable" amount to use to get the job done. Now all someone has to do is define "Reasonable"!
Having been there, done that, wrote it and sold it, "Environmentally Friendly" is hogwash. A marketing tool. Taking a quote from C. Edwards Deming, the father of Total Quality Management (TQM), "Before you can measure it, you must define it!" So, define "Environmentally friendly". Won't kill babies? Won't kill fish in less than 10,000 years? Contains < 1PBM (part per billion)which is known to cause zebra mussels to turn white? I think you get my point. Folks, even clean potable WATER will kill you! (see the link below) NOT that we should go back to TBT-based paints but there has to be a "Reasonable" amount to use to get the job done. Now all someone has to do is define "Reasonable"!
They Don't List Active Ingredient!!!!!
Water Based is good for the environment and also good for your liver!!!! A lot of organic solvents are very damaging to humans who breath the fumes. But I find it very interesting that they don't list the active ingredient or it's concnetration. Most use some form of copper usually copper oxide. The copper is what you pay for and the more expensive the paint the higher the percentage copper. Copper is very toxic to many forms of marine life DUH that is why it is in the paint to stop the stuff from growing. The ablative is to keep it from attaching. But there is another thing called bioavailability that is important. Copper is rapidly precipitated from water and is complexed with other atoms and becomes much less toxic. Also it is self evident that if a gallon will stay on a boat for a year or more that the release rate is slow so that there should not normally be high concentrations from a boat. People also routinely apply copper sulfate to ponds etc to kill aquatic weeds and this if done correctly doesn't kill fish. Shellfish are a different matter but again it must not be too toxic as every marina that I have ever visted has had oysters growing on the pilings...heck I have had oysters grow on my prop and prop shaft just a few inches from my copper coated bottom.
Water Based is good for the environment and also good for your liver!!!! A lot of organic solvents are very damaging to humans who breath the fumes. But I find it very interesting that they don't list the active ingredient or it's concnetration. Most use some form of copper usually copper oxide. The copper is what you pay for and the more expensive the paint the higher the percentage copper. Copper is very toxic to many forms of marine life DUH that is why it is in the paint to stop the stuff from growing. The ablative is to keep it from attaching. But there is another thing called bioavailability that is important. Copper is rapidly precipitated from water and is complexed with other atoms and becomes much less toxic. Also it is self evident that if a gallon will stay on a boat for a year or more that the release rate is slow so that there should not normally be high concentrations from a boat. People also routinely apply copper sulfate to ponds etc to kill aquatic weeds and this if done correctly doesn't kill fish. Shellfish are a different matter but again it must not be too toxic as every marina that I have ever visted has had oysters growing on the pilings...heck I have had oysters grow on my prop and prop shaft just a few inches from my copper coated bottom.
Aquagard
I switched to Aquagard from Micron CSC several years ago. It is a much better antifoulant than Micron and lasts longer. It dries to a harder finish than most ablatives and can be burnished to a very nice smooth finish. I roll it on with a small fine nap roller for varnish. After it dries it rubs out with ease using 220 wet paper. The shark white starts out as a light grey but turns completely white in the water. The fact that it comes in white is a big advantage. Cleaning with a natural sponge is easily done and the white surface shows any slime that develops. Highly recommend it!
I switched to Aquagard from Micron CSC several years ago. It is a much better antifoulant than Micron and lasts longer. It dries to a harder finish than most ablatives and can be burnished to a very nice smooth finish. I roll it on with a small fine nap roller for varnish. After it dries it rubs out with ease using 220 wet paper. The shark white starts out as a light grey but turns completely white in the water. The fact that it comes in white is a big advantage. Cleaning with a natural sponge is easily done and the white surface shows any slime that develops. Highly recommend it!
Wait a year
There is a new eco paint that should be coming out next year. The approval from the EPA won't occur until late summer early fall this year. Its active ingredient is C12H5BrCIF3N2 and it has a 1/2 life in the water (after it leaves the boat) of 3-4hrs, after which it degrades into no toxic components. The paint can be made as a solvent base paint with VOCs or as a water based paint which can be cleaned up with soap and water as the active ingredient is both water and solvent soluble. It can be used on metal boats as well as fiberglass without the fear of a bimetal reaction. The active ingredient is call ECONEA. Its in trial phase now and seems to be preforming well.
There is a new eco paint that should be coming out next year. The approval from the EPA won't occur until late summer early fall this year. Its active ingredient is C12H5BrCIF3N2 and it has a 1/2 life in the water (after it leaves the boat) of 3-4hrs, after which it degrades into no toxic components. The paint can be made as a solvent base paint with VOCs or as a water based paint which can be cleaned up with soap and water as the active ingredient is both water and solvent soluble. It can be used on metal boats as well as fiberglass without the fear of a bimetal reaction. The active ingredient is call ECONEA. Its in trial phase now and seems to be preforming well.
Huh?
Phil - don't know where you get this from. EPA does not "approve" bottom paints - only registers them upon receipt of required analytical data which has nothing to do with toxicity or efficacy of the paint. Is this (C12H5BrCIF3N2) supposed to be some chemical formulation? Also, who determined the half-life and how? You statement implies it somehow makes a chemical decomposition or alteration upon physical removal from the bottom - how? Phil said: "There is a new eco paint that should be coming out next year. The approval from the EPA won't occur until late summer early fall this year. Its active ingredient is C12H5BrCIF3N2 and it has a 1/2 life in the water (after it leaves the boat) of 3-4hrs, after which it degrades into no toxic components."
Phil - don't know where you get this from. EPA does not "approve" bottom paints - only registers them upon receipt of required analytical data which has nothing to do with toxicity or efficacy of the paint. Is this (C12H5BrCIF3N2) supposed to be some chemical formulation? Also, who determined the half-life and how? You statement implies it somehow makes a chemical decomposition or alteration upon physical removal from the bottom - how? Phil said: "There is a new eco paint that should be coming out next year. The approval from the EPA won't occur until late summer early fall this year. Its active ingredient is C12H5BrCIF3N2 and it has a 1/2 life in the water (after it leaves the boat) of 3-4hrs, after which it degrades into no toxic components."
Do some Work
I gave you the name. I really don't feel like a debate. Take it for what its worth. Do some home work. Lets just wait and see. Are you really sure it doesn't need EPA approval?
I gave you the name. I really don't feel like a debate. Take it for what its worth. Do some home work. Lets just wait and see. Are you really sure it doesn't need EPA approval?
Sorry if I sounded rude
Yes it is a chemical forulation. I am not a chemist so how it breaks down after it leaves the boat I can not explain, but is does degrade into biodegradable elements or compounds with in 3-4 hrs. The life is determined by the research which is given to the EPA. The removale process is wear. EPA Enviormental Protection Agency, they might have to approve it.
Yes it is a chemical forulation. I am not a chemist so how it breaks down after it leaves the boat I can not explain, but is does degrade into biodegradable elements or compounds with in 3-4 hrs. The life is determined by the research which is given to the EPA. The removale process is wear. EPA Enviormental Protection Agency, they might have to approve it.
no problem Phil
I was just trying to better define what this is that is debuting next year that you referred to. I am a chem engineer and worked at EPA for many years so I'm pretty familiar with the process to know it's not an "approval" but simply an acceptance of their data as fulfilling minimum requirements of providing propriatary component data which again demonstrates nothing about it's efficacy. I am a skeptic when it comes to these type claims and am baffled by the claim it somehow breaks down into inert components simply from physical separation from the hull which sounds very much like some unsubstantiated marketing claim. Whatever it is may very well work but that chem formula has to be a typo.
I was just trying to better define what this is that is debuting next year that you referred to. I am a chem engineer and worked at EPA for many years so I'm pretty familiar with the process to know it's not an "approval" but simply an acceptance of their data as fulfilling minimum requirements of providing propriatary component data which again demonstrates nothing about it's efficacy. I am a skeptic when it comes to these type claims and am baffled by the claim it somehow breaks down into inert components simply from physical separation from the hull which sounds very much like some unsubstantiated marketing claim. Whatever it is may very well work but that chem formula has to be a typo.
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