My wife and I are new to sailing and would like to get our own boat soon. Our playground is the puget sound in the Seattle area. I'm just trying to get an idea of actual maintenance costs over time and some general "which is better" questions. Boat size and models: I love the Hunter 27 (and to a lesser extent the 25) '05 or later.Pricey but the 6'2" clearance is good for me at ~6'1". For older boats I like the O'day 272LE '87 '88. Any others that have ~6' head clearance similar to these, pls advise. Is it better to buy newer to not have so many upkeep issues so soon or can you find a good boat with recent work that'll put it on a similar upkeep schedule as new? Lets base answers on sailing (cruising not racing) 40x per year. First off moorage: As a reservist I can get moorage for $108 a month at the navy base 15 miles from home. Else down in Edmonds which is 5 miles away for $270. Most our destination would be closer from Edmonds. Worth the extra $170? I like the idea of hanging on the boat as a waterfront getaway too. Inboad vs Outboard - which last longer and requires less upkeep? Batteries: Are these or can these be rigged to recharged from engine? Solar power options? Upkeep frequency and cost: Sail lifespan? Engine upkeep? Hull upkeep? Any other higher cost upkeep to be aware of? Any input would be great on any of the questions. Thanks in advance.
- Status
These topics are fun ...
You'll get a lot of good advise and probably way more detaile than I will go into. Puget Sound! I envy you! I would look for 27' minimum and probably look for up to 30'. Headroom is an issue and I don't think a 6 footer is going to find anything comfortable in a boat smaller than 27' Our 27' Starwind advertises 6' but that is only when I stand directly underneath the sliding coach roof (over the companionway). Otherwise, I have to stoop and I am only 6'. It gets tiresome, believe me! So now that we resolved that issue
, you have to figure that you will have an inboard auxiliary. Personally, I don't like the lines of a nice sailboat ruined by an outboard (but that's just me). If you think your future is in a larger sailboat, eventually, you should get started with a diesel inboard just for the experience alone. It's really hard to say if an older or newer used boat will have higher maintenance and upkeep expense. So much depends on the upkeep performed by the previous owner. And a boat with proper upkeep will definitely cost more. I would say that on balance, the more you spend (properly) on a well-maintained boat, the more you will be happy because of the time that you get to sail rather than doing projects and because you will spend less money on refits. All things are expensive ... rigging, sails, electronics, hardware, cushions. Don't overlook any detail when you are shopping. For instance, if you overlook the musty smell from old cushions in the interior when you are shopping ... you will probably spend over a grand, otherwise known as 1 BOAT unit - break out another thousand - when your wife and you can't handle the smell once you own boat. I'm speaking from experience here! You can spend a lot of money on all those items depending on your level of desire and ability to spend. If you buy everything on your wish list (for a solid boat that has outdated or tired equipment), you can easily spend more money within a few years than you do on the purchase. That is why I say to pay attention to the features that have recently been upgraded when looking at used boats. That will save you money. As for a mooring, get the one that has the best location for where you want to sail. There is hardly any difference between a difference of 10 miles when you are driving. But if there is a 10-mile difference on the water between where you want to sail, that is significant. A mooring is a great way to go to save money, but don't skimp if you like the location of one more than the other. It depends on the openings too, I guess. If the better location is available only on this rare window of opportunity, take it in a heartbeat. If it is always available, then you can see how you feel with the closer-to-home option.
You'll get a lot of good advise and probably way more detaile than I will go into. Puget Sound! I envy you! I would look for 27' minimum and probably look for up to 30'. Headroom is an issue and I don't think a 6 footer is going to find anything comfortable in a boat smaller than 27' Our 27' Starwind advertises 6' but that is only when I stand directly underneath the sliding coach roof (over the companionway). Otherwise, I have to stoop and I am only 6'. It gets tiresome, believe me! So now that we resolved that issue
, you have to figure that you will have an inboard auxiliary. Personally, I don't like the lines of a nice sailboat ruined by an outboard (but that's just me). If you think your future is in a larger sailboat, eventually, you should get started with a diesel inboard just for the experience alone. It's really hard to say if an older or newer used boat will have higher maintenance and upkeep expense. So much depends on the upkeep performed by the previous owner. And a boat with proper upkeep will definitely cost more. I would say that on balance, the more you spend (properly) on a well-maintained boat, the more you will be happy because of the time that you get to sail rather than doing projects and because you will spend less money on refits. All things are expensive ... rigging, sails, electronics, hardware, cushions. Don't overlook any detail when you are shopping. For instance, if you overlook the musty smell from old cushions in the interior when you are shopping ... you will probably spend over a grand, otherwise known as 1 BOAT unit - break out another thousand - when your wife and you can't handle the smell once you own boat. I'm speaking from experience here! You can spend a lot of money on all those items depending on your level of desire and ability to spend. If you buy everything on your wish list (for a solid boat that has outdated or tired equipment), you can easily spend more money within a few years than you do on the purchase. That is why I say to pay attention to the features that have recently been upgraded when looking at used boats. That will save you money. As for a mooring, get the one that has the best location for where you want to sail. There is hardly any difference between a difference of 10 miles when you are driving. But if there is a 10-mile difference on the water between where you want to sail, that is significant. A mooring is a great way to go to save money, but don't skimp if you like the location of one more than the other. It depends on the openings too, I guess. If the better location is available only on this rare window of opportunity, take it in a heartbeat. If it is always available, then you can see how you feel with the closer-to-home option.My Cost
Well it get complex becasue different areas of the country have wide cost varation For example i am a J24 sailor becasue i enjoy that type of boat BUT it is also about the biggest boat that i can step the mast myself(35' mast) as well as keep it in the driveway on the trailer during the winter The mast issue varys becasue at least here many yards will not store with the mast up so it becomes a big cost if you have to pay for this Insurance is also a big issue as you have to be carefull about what % different companys will cover on older boats And outboard is good but they are generaly very marginal at battery charging compared to a inboard with a 65 or 100 amp charging system Sail life is generaly long BUT it really depends on what it ws made of when new and how well it is pretected as UV is a big wear factor North sails web sight gives a lot of info on different material life spans There is a lot more but time is short Tommays
Well it get complex becasue different areas of the country have wide cost varation For example i am a J24 sailor becasue i enjoy that type of boat BUT it is also about the biggest boat that i can step the mast myself(35' mast) as well as keep it in the driveway on the trailer during the winter The mast issue varys becasue at least here many yards will not store with the mast up so it becomes a big cost if you have to pay for this Insurance is also a big issue as you have to be carefull about what % different companys will cover on older boats And outboard is good but they are generaly very marginal at battery charging compared to a inboard with a 65 or 100 amp charging system Sail life is generaly long BUT it really depends on what it ws made of when new and how well it is pretected as UV is a big wear factor North sails web sight gives a lot of info on different material life spans There is a lot more but time is short
Tommays
Buy the best boat you can but
There will still be work to be done. Which boat depends on your needs. Obviously your height is a factor. Cruising expands your choices a little as you can usually always cruise in a race boat but racing a cruising boat can be more of a challenge. I am not a fan of the newer Hunters or Catalinas but that is my personal preference. I like the older designs. I feel they have more character but for comfort, the newer boats are definitely easy to spend time in as they have been designed more around the whole crew and not just what the skipper wants. The mooring question is really tough as you are the only one to judge what works for you unless someone here has some local knowledge for you. Outboards are easier to work on/replace. Inboards don't get stolen and will propel your vessel better in a large sea(read safer) It is convenient to be able to take your motor to the yard to work on. It also opens more space inside. Inboards can give you more conveniences like hot water and refridgeration. Both can be setup to charge your batteries. Upkeep is a mixed bag. I do just about everything myself. I believe it is a good idea to know your systems inside and out and doing your own maintenance is how you learn this. So prices here can vary. Old sails will move your boat but not as efficiently. Rigging is important. Replace if in doubt. I would start will a smaller boat that can be trailered. This will open up many possibilities for you and give you an idea of what "cruising" really costs. Then you can move up to the dream boat and have a good idea of your expenses. Here is what I paid for my Pearson 28 annually: Yard storage: $1200(round trip) Mooring including maintenance: $250 Bottom paint: $200 Misc supplies for maintenance: $300 Insurance: $500 Totals roughly $2,500 per year Major Upgrades including new rigging, sails, electronics, etc spread over multiple years: $5000 HTH
There will still be work to be done. Which boat depends on your needs. Obviously your height is a factor. Cruising expands your choices a little as you can usually always cruise in a race boat but racing a cruising boat can be more of a challenge. I am not a fan of the newer Hunters or Catalinas but that is my personal preference. I like the older designs. I feel they have more character but for comfort, the newer boats are definitely easy to spend time in as they have been designed more around the whole crew and not just what the skipper wants. The mooring question is really tough as you are the only one to judge what works for you unless someone here has some local knowledge for you. Outboards are easier to work on/replace. Inboards don't get stolen and will propel your vessel better in a large sea(read safer) It is convenient to be able to take your motor to the yard to work on. It also opens more space inside. Inboards can give you more conveniences like hot water and refridgeration. Both can be setup to charge your batteries. Upkeep is a mixed bag. I do just about everything myself. I believe it is a good idea to know your systems inside and out and doing your own maintenance is how you learn this. So prices here can vary. Old sails will move your boat but not as efficiently. Rigging is important. Replace if in doubt. I would start will a smaller boat that can be trailered. This will open up many possibilities for you and give you an idea of what "cruising" really costs. Then you can move up to the dream boat and have a good idea of your expenses. Here is what I paid for my Pearson 28 annually: Yard storage: $1200(round trip) Mooring including maintenance: $250 Bottom paint: $200 Misc supplies for maintenance: $300 Insurance: $500 Totals roughly $2,500 per year Major Upgrades including new rigging, sails, electronics, etc spread over multiple years: $5000 HTH
I wish there was an Internet
when I started sailing. Now it's easy to get questions answered and locate resources, not like the old days when you had to actually ask people for advice face to face and read everything you could get your hands on. It took years of trial and error to gain the experience that people want to aquire in a moment now. Keeping costs in line is important, but don't make the mistake of thinking that you can keep a boat in the water on the cheap. Ain't gonna happen. Everything costs, and if you cheap out, it'll come back to bite you later. The Catalina 25 is probably the best all-around trailerable bang-for-the-buck boat there is. There are plenty of them on the used market, the company is still in business, and there's an active owner association that can provide real info. A step up from that is the Catalina 30, probably the best cruising boat in its class for what it does. Get a diesel one. The rig, hull, engine will, with proper maintenance, last a very long time. You largest static costs will be slip rent, taxes, and insurance, but being that your in WA, yours will be considerably lower than in CA. Get a copy of West Marine's big catalog, and read it. It's full of advice on everything. Welcome to our world.
when I started sailing. Now it's easy to get questions answered and locate resources, not like the old days when you had to actually ask people for advice face to face and read everything you could get your hands on. It took years of trial and error to gain the experience that people want to aquire in a moment now. Keeping costs in line is important, but don't make the mistake of thinking that you can keep a boat in the water on the cheap. Ain't gonna happen. Everything costs, and if you cheap out, it'll come back to bite you later. The Catalina 25 is probably the best all-around trailerable bang-for-the-buck boat there is. There are plenty of them on the used market, the company is still in business, and there's an active owner association that can provide real info. A step up from that is the Catalina 30, probably the best cruising boat in its class for what it does. Get a diesel one. The rig, hull, engine will, with proper maintenance, last a very long time. You largest static costs will be slip rent, taxes, and insurance, but being that your in WA, yours will be considerably lower than in CA. Get a copy of West Marine's big catalog, and read it. It's full of advice on everything. Welcome to our world.
Your questions are perfect....
Crusoe, I've just bought a new (from the dealer) Hunter 27--it is not even here yet, on the truck somewhere in the mid-west. Talk about being on pins and needles. The boat left Florida amid wild fires and picked up another boat in the mid-Atlantic someplace and now is heading west into tornado alley. What me worry? But to answer your questions. First, I have had nine other boats, this H27 will be my tenth. Having sailed, raced and cruised for forty five plus years I think I have some of the answers for you but others on this list will help you out as well. Smart folks. My new Hunter will cost me about $90,000 without taxes since I am trading down. I sold or traded in my Hunter 380 last month. Moorage in Bellingham was about $3600 a year plus electricity. There is a rule of thumb, the further away from Seattle Lake Union the cheaper the moorage. Best rates around here are in Port Roberts and Blaine. Your Navy dockage sounds good to me. Go for it. Now you have two choices, a used boat or a new boat. This will start a fire storm on this web as to which way to go with most of the participants saying to buy use. I have always bought new, traded one boat in on the next one. But I always have bought new boats that had a good re-saie possibility. My last boat, the Hunter 380 sold in three weeks on the market and I received about fifteen thousand less then when I bought it. I estimate my costs at perhaps 10 to 15 thousand a year to own it and to sail and cruise (I have a good friend who plays golf all over the country and pays a lot more for his sport). I did not include the goodies and toys like radar that I put on that were for my enjoyment in you're interested. But I also did not have much in the way of repairs and maintenance--just lots of sailing and cruising. I don't like to repair things--I'm not good at it. I am constantly amazed at some of the people on this list who routinely fix things that I think are unfixable. More power to 'em. I envie them. If you get a boat like the Hunter 27 and you get roller furling main and jib, your sails will probably last for fifteen to twenty years. My sails on the 380 looked excellent as reported by a sailmaker after the nine years that I had the boat. The diesel (and I can only comment on Yanmar) should last and last. I've had five Yanmar diesels, never had a problem and ran them all the time. Beautiful engine--don't forget to change the oil. Pet it once in awhile--it gets lonely in its little hole. Other cost are proportional. Smaller the boat, the less cost to you. For example my 380s insurance was about $900 a year with BoatUS. My new boat insurance will be $380 with the same company and I think better coverage. Of course they don't want me to sail to Hawaii but I told them while the H27 probably could make it, I couldn't take enough old age pills and still have storage. They gave me the insurance anyway. I figure that I will haul out very other year to have the bottom painted so I estimate on the high side about a $1000 per haul out. That's having someone else paint the bottom--you young things can save some money there. This time since I like to use other people's money, I am borrowing some of the new boat costs from a credit union at 4.9 percent. That is for a new boat, used boats have higher percentages. But also remember this, if the boat has sleeping, eating and bathroom facilities, you can deduct the interest from your income tax. Cool, eh? Here is a point I have always paid attention to....buy a boat that will sell easily after you are done with it. There are Cals, Rangers, Islanders, and Ericksons that are forty years plus old and still going strong. Nice boats. Keep in clean and in good shape and it will probably sell. There is always someone who will fall in love with your boat. Buying a boat is like getting married--there is no accounting for taste. I like Hunters and they are popular the world around. And they are well made. I can be assured that when I have to sell, there will be someone who will want my boat. Sob! Let's see have I answer most of your questions? Batteries. Get a good battery charger and keep them topped up and they should last you seven to eight years. But a good battery charger. If you buy a Hunter boat, you hull will only need washing--they add something to their gell coat which really makes it look good all of the time. My 380 looked new--several people commented on it and it was only washed. Now there is an insidious side to boating that deals with costs. There will be a ton of folks on this list to warn you about it. If you buy a boat it will become part of the family. Therefore you will go from boat store to boat store looking at "stuff" that your family member really ought to have. Upgrades! new stuff! "I gotta have new stainless steel dorade vents!" ($300). "Wouldn't leather cushions be nice below?" ($900) The latest GPS? ($800) This disease is second only to foot-ites where you start wanting a bigger boat. My wife and I both have the "gotta have the best" disease. But it is a great sport and if you're raising a family, there is none better. I noticed (no politics intended here) that when Senator Kennedy was diagnosed with his brain cancer, the first thing he did was go sailing. I understand. It's relaxing and soothing. Perfect for this day and age, eh? I wish you the best. If you have further questions lay it on this group--they are good. But if you want more on the Hunter 27 give me a shout or e-mail. leslieblackwell@comcast.net. And when my new boat gets to Seattle, you can come see it. Les
Crusoe, I've just bought a new (from the dealer) Hunter 27--it is not even here yet, on the truck somewhere in the mid-west. Talk about being on pins and needles. The boat left Florida amid wild fires and picked up another boat in the mid-Atlantic someplace and now is heading west into tornado alley. What me worry? But to answer your questions. First, I have had nine other boats, this H27 will be my tenth. Having sailed, raced and cruised for forty five plus years I think I have some of the answers for you but others on this list will help you out as well. Smart folks. My new Hunter will cost me about $90,000 without taxes since I am trading down. I sold or traded in my Hunter 380 last month. Moorage in Bellingham was about $3600 a year plus electricity. There is a rule of thumb, the further away from Seattle Lake Union the cheaper the moorage. Best rates around here are in Port Roberts and Blaine. Your Navy dockage sounds good to me. Go for it. Now you have two choices, a used boat or a new boat. This will start a fire storm on this web as to which way to go with most of the participants saying to buy use. I have always bought new, traded one boat in on the next one. But I always have bought new boats that had a good re-saie possibility. My last boat, the Hunter 380 sold in three weeks on the market and I received about fifteen thousand less then when I bought it. I estimate my costs at perhaps 10 to 15 thousand a year to own it and to sail and cruise (I have a good friend who plays golf all over the country and pays a lot more for his sport). I did not include the goodies and toys like radar that I put on that were for my enjoyment in you're interested. But I also did not have much in the way of repairs and maintenance--just lots of sailing and cruising. I don't like to repair things--I'm not good at it. I am constantly amazed at some of the people on this list who routinely fix things that I think are unfixable. More power to 'em. I envie them. If you get a boat like the Hunter 27 and you get roller furling main and jib, your sails will probably last for fifteen to twenty years. My sails on the 380 looked excellent as reported by a sailmaker after the nine years that I had the boat. The diesel (and I can only comment on Yanmar) should last and last. I've had five Yanmar diesels, never had a problem and ran them all the time. Beautiful engine--don't forget to change the oil. Pet it once in awhile--it gets lonely in its little hole. Other cost are proportional. Smaller the boat, the less cost to you. For example my 380s insurance was about $900 a year with BoatUS. My new boat insurance will be $380 with the same company and I think better coverage. Of course they don't want me to sail to Hawaii but I told them while the H27 probably could make it, I couldn't take enough old age pills and still have storage. They gave me the insurance anyway. I figure that I will haul out very other year to have the bottom painted so I estimate on the high side about a $1000 per haul out. That's having someone else paint the bottom--you young things can save some money there. This time since I like to use other people's money, I am borrowing some of the new boat costs from a credit union at 4.9 percent. That is for a new boat, used boats have higher percentages. But also remember this, if the boat has sleeping, eating and bathroom facilities, you can deduct the interest from your income tax. Cool, eh? Here is a point I have always paid attention to....buy a boat that will sell easily after you are done with it. There are Cals, Rangers, Islanders, and Ericksons that are forty years plus old and still going strong. Nice boats. Keep in clean and in good shape and it will probably sell. There is always someone who will fall in love with your boat. Buying a boat is like getting married--there is no accounting for taste. I like Hunters and they are popular the world around. And they are well made. I can be assured that when I have to sell, there will be someone who will want my boat. Sob! Let's see have I answer most of your questions? Batteries. Get a good battery charger and keep them topped up and they should last you seven to eight years. But a good battery charger. If you buy a Hunter boat, you hull will only need washing--they add something to their gell coat which really makes it look good all of the time. My 380 looked new--several people commented on it and it was only washed. Now there is an insidious side to boating that deals with costs. There will be a ton of folks on this list to warn you about it. If you buy a boat it will become part of the family. Therefore you will go from boat store to boat store looking at "stuff" that your family member really ought to have. Upgrades! new stuff! "I gotta have new stainless steel dorade vents!" ($300). "Wouldn't leather cushions be nice below?" ($900) The latest GPS? ($800) This disease is second only to foot-ites where you start wanting a bigger boat. My wife and I both have the "gotta have the best" disease. But it is a great sport and if you're raising a family, there is none better. I noticed (no politics intended here) that when Senator Kennedy was diagnosed with his brain cancer, the first thing he did was go sailing. I understand. It's relaxing and soothing. Perfect for this day and age, eh? I wish you the best. If you have further questions lay it on this group--they are good. But if you want more on the Hunter 27 give me a shout or e-mail. leslieblackwell@comcast.net. And when my new boat gets to Seattle, you can come see it. Les
Go bigger
The 1st question is what is your budget, the absolute max you can spend on the initial purchase. I would go as big as your budget could handle and you feel you could sail comfortably. Don't know your maximum for slip size and variable costs will increase with size but if you are going to spend 40 + days a year on it that is likely more than 95% of current boat owners. We sailed in a Co-op with 26 and 30 footers and bought a 35.5 Hunter. We have had it for 5 years and we would really like the extra couple of feet. We have added many things along the way as well as reairs and replacements and would not want to start over - so buy your next boat this time! What type of sailing do you do - you said cruising but is that extended cruising 2+ weeks at a time or is it weekend trips. For 2 + weeks the space is nice. Will you have guests - our 35.5 is perfect for a couple but add 2 more and we are constanly moving gear. Inboard versus outboard - as a general rule most newer models 27 and up will be inboard diesel. If you look after them they will run forever and you will learn more than you ever wanted to know about them. Don't buy an inboard gas engine. As for the age anything over 10 years will start to require items to be replaced. For the Northwest a couple of things to look for are a good dodger or complete enclosure as it extends the season and heat. Other than an engine replacement the next major replacement is sails and if you get something 10-15 years old lightly used the sails should be fine for cruising. Good Luck Don
The 1st question is what is your budget, the absolute max you can spend on the initial purchase. I would go as big as your budget could handle and you feel you could sail comfortably. Don't know your maximum for slip size and variable costs will increase with size but if you are going to spend 40 + days a year on it that is likely more than 95% of current boat owners. We sailed in a Co-op with 26 and 30 footers and bought a 35.5 Hunter. We have had it for 5 years and we would really like the extra couple of feet. We have added many things along the way as well as reairs and replacements and would not want to start over - so buy your next boat this time! What type of sailing do you do - you said cruising but is that extended cruising 2+ weeks at a time or is it weekend trips. For 2 + weeks the space is nice. Will you have guests - our 35.5 is perfect for a couple but add 2 more and we are constanly moving gear. Inboard versus outboard - as a general rule most newer models 27 and up will be inboard diesel. If you look after them they will run forever and you will learn more than you ever wanted to know about them. Don't buy an inboard gas engine. As for the age anything over 10 years will start to require items to be replaced. For the Northwest a couple of things to look for are a good dodger or complete enclosure as it extends the season and heat. Other than an engine replacement the next major replacement is sails and if you get something 10-15 years old lightly used the sails should be fine for cruising. Good Luck Don
Bigger?
I respectfully disagree Don. Crusoe obviously has little boat owning experience unlike you or me. Buying the "next" boat will be difficult because he is not sure what the "first" boat should be. Size is not the only criteria for a boat purchase. So many think bigger is better but if that bigger boat is the wrong boat than you are stuck and will likely lose money. Make small mistakes so that your "next" boat will be as close to perfect for you as possible.
I respectfully disagree Don. Crusoe obviously has little boat owning experience unlike you or me. Buying the "next" boat will be difficult because he is not sure what the "first" boat should be. Size is not the only criteria for a boat purchase. So many think bigger is better but if that bigger boat is the wrong boat than you are stuck and will likely lose money. Make small mistakes so that your "next" boat will be as close to perfect for you as possible.
I think that in some respects acquiring a boat is much like acquiring a house
you can take possession for a finite cost but then there is an undefined cost of settling in. Only you can know or learn what that cost will be but it is always something. Just furnishing the galley can take something more than expected.
you can take possession for a finite cost but then there is an undefined cost of settling in. Only you can know or learn what that cost will be but it is always something. Just furnishing the galley can take something more than expected.
advice for new sailor
Your gonna get a lot of opinions here. but in the end you are going to have to find out what works for you not somebody else. first the bigger the boat the more the upkeep. expenses triple every 5'. 2nd If standing headroom is a must your going to have to start with something 27ft or over thats means an inboard diesel. Dont consider a boat with a gasoline inboard unless its free. There are many older solidly built boats out there that are good values. If you go with a boat over 30 ft with a diesel inboard and do not plan on doing your own work expenses are gonna be a lot higher. I had a pearson 10M for 15 years Did all the maintenence myself. It finally got to much for me so I traded down to a pearson 26w with an outboard. Its real easy to maintain. If there is anything I cant fix myself I dont want it on the boat. I trailer the boat down to the yard in the spring and take it home in the fall. My expenses are as follows $500 Mooring and harbor use fee. $100 bottom paint $600 for boat club launch service $500 year for in and out, Take boat off trailer with crane step mast put it in water/ reverse in fall. $200 misc supplies under $2000 a year. Again if your looking to keep costs down get an outboard boat. But that means 25/26 ft no head room. Boat yards are expensive. about $100 per hr for labor now and they dont move fast You`ll find out what suits you but its gonna take more than 1 season
Your gonna get a lot of opinions here. but in the end you are going to have to find out what works for you not somebody else. first the bigger the boat the more the upkeep. expenses triple every 5'. 2nd If standing headroom is a must your going to have to start with something 27ft or over thats means an inboard diesel. Dont consider a boat with a gasoline inboard unless its free. There are many older solidly built boats out there that are good values. If you go with a boat over 30 ft with a diesel inboard and do not plan on doing your own work expenses are gonna be a lot higher. I had a pearson 10M for 15 years Did all the maintenence myself. It finally got to much for me so I traded down to a pearson 26w with an outboard. Its real easy to maintain. If there is anything I cant fix myself I dont want it on the boat. I trailer the boat down to the yard in the spring and take it home in the fall. My expenses are as follows $500 Mooring and harbor use fee. $100 bottom paint $600 for boat club launch service $500 year for in and out, Take boat off trailer with crane step mast put it in water/ reverse in fall. $200 misc supplies under $2000 a year. Again if your looking to keep costs down get an outboard boat. But that means 25/26 ft no head room. Boat yards are expensive. about $100 per hr for labor now and they dont move fast You`ll find out what suits you but its gonna take more than 1 season
Thanks!
Thanks! Keep it coming. I would like to keep it on a slip year round, it just seems cheaper than buying a truck, insuring it, licensing it and the trailer and the time to get it in the water. The naval moorage ~15 miles by land is 12 (10.5 nautical) by sea to Edmonds and would save me around $1800 a year and less nickle and diming. It would put me closer to San Juans but farther from Seattle. 40x (40 days) a year would be weekenders mostly with maybe a 1 full week "epic" trip. Main reason I focused on 27' or bigger is the inclusion of a diesel inboard and can maintain it meself. Also to keep insurance down. Forgot to mention my mother is a master upholsterer and my wife a master seamstress. Tim R's breakdown of $2500 a year in a 28' is doable.
Thanks! Keep it coming. I would like to keep it on a slip year round, it just seems cheaper than buying a truck, insuring it, licensing it and the trailer and the time to get it in the water. The naval moorage ~15 miles by land is 12 (10.5 nautical) by sea to Edmonds and would save me around $1800 a year and less nickle and diming. It would put me closer to San Juans but farther from Seattle. 40x (40 days) a year would be weekenders mostly with maybe a 1 full week "epic" trip. Main reason I focused on 27' or bigger is the inclusion of a diesel inboard and can maintain it meself. Also to keep insurance down. Forgot to mention my mother is a master upholsterer and my wife a master seamstress. Tim R's breakdown of $2500 a year in a 28' is doable.
Welcome to the world of sailing!
I would suggest that you look at a Hunter 28.5. You'll find it roomy with the required headroom, inboard, which is preferable to outboard because of battery charging, diesel fuel which is safer than gas and the prop stays in the water. Also where you live, you can open a engine hatch and warm the interior to the boat. You can find a superb one for about 22K or a cheap one for about 10K and a lot in between. As for marina go with the Base marina if it is safe as you can spend the additional money on other things, which you will. Expect a bottom job every one to two years at about 1K a pop, as sailboats are very slow with dirty bottoms. Sails last up to twenty years if they have been treated well (mended as needed, kept from the UV and not blown out of shape) The Yanmar diesel is superb and will run forever if it has been maintained with clean oil, fuel, filters, impellers and belts. Batteries last 3-4 years and can be bought on base or Wallmart for $75 each (type 27 Deep Cycle). Boats always need something repaired because of the harsh corrosive environment they are in. So learn about doing most repairs yourself as there are many books available. Does the marina have electricity and water available? As you will need to flush the motor with fresh water after all uses as well as wash the boat. What will you do with the boat in the winter? Can the marina haul and store the boat? Everything costs money and usually the price of boating is high and there are a lot of other ways to have fun with the money you spend on boat ownership. Good luck.
I would suggest that you look at a Hunter 28.5. You'll find it roomy with the required headroom, inboard, which is preferable to outboard because of battery charging, diesel fuel which is safer than gas and the prop stays in the water. Also where you live, you can open a engine hatch and warm the interior to the boat. You can find a superb one for about 22K or a cheap one for about 10K and a lot in between. As for marina go with the Base marina if it is safe as you can spend the additional money on other things, which you will. Expect a bottom job every one to two years at about 1K a pop, as sailboats are very slow with dirty bottoms. Sails last up to twenty years if they have been treated well (mended as needed, kept from the UV and not blown out of shape) The Yanmar diesel is superb and will run forever if it has been maintained with clean oil, fuel, filters, impellers and belts. Batteries last 3-4 years and can be bought on base or Wallmart for $75 each (type 27 Deep Cycle). Boats always need something repaired because of the harsh corrosive environment they are in. So learn about doing most repairs yourself as there are many books available. Does the marina have electricity and water available? As you will need to flush the motor with fresh water after all uses as well as wash the boat. What will you do with the boat in the winter? Can the marina haul and store the boat? Everything costs money and usually the price of boating is high and there are a lot of other ways to have fun with the money you spend on boat ownership. Good luck.
Keep an open mind and go SEE the boats.
My Wife and I recently purchased a new (to us boat). It is really tempting to sit home at the computer and shop to your hearts content, but ultimately is has limitations. The boat with 6' 2" head room in the specification will look great on paper then you will go see it and your Wife will walk in and say she hates it after one minute, or you will do the same. I fell in love with the Newport 30, a boat built on the west coast. There were only 3 within three hours of my house and all of them proved to have problems. The one I finally settled on turned out to have wet decks the surveyor had ever seen. One of the others had a bad grounding and the third had sat on the hard unloved for years with paint flaking off her mast. It was obviously time to focus on other makes and models. The best advice I got is to make a list of need to haves and nice to haves. A big need to have was a tee-shaped cockpit. That eliminated many used boats in our 10-20K price range. Other biggies were wheel steering and a diesel inboard. We ended up buying a 1981 S2 9.2A. S2's have a good reputation for quality. She has a tee shaped cockpit, a diesel, a large cockpit (we mostly daysail so in many ways that is probably more important that head room), 6 feet of head room and was well loved by her previous owners. The point? Well the last time I had looked at an S2 was at a 1985 boat show when I was 20 years old. I had no intentions of buying one until I reduced my desires to paper and broadened my search. If you have your heart set on new, then you have already limited yourself to a mere handful of boats that might meet your needs as there are only a handful still being made. However, if you are considering a used boat, then my suggestion is to keep a fairly open mind and start hitting marinas in your neck of the woods. You might find a gem you love which you otherwise would have never considered. Bob
My Wife and I recently purchased a new (to us boat). It is really tempting to sit home at the computer and shop to your hearts content, but ultimately is has limitations. The boat with 6' 2" head room in the specification will look great on paper then you will go see it and your Wife will walk in and say she hates it after one minute, or you will do the same. I fell in love with the Newport 30, a boat built on the west coast. There were only 3 within three hours of my house and all of them proved to have problems. The one I finally settled on turned out to have wet decks the surveyor had ever seen. One of the others had a bad grounding and the third had sat on the hard unloved for years with paint flaking off her mast. It was obviously time to focus on other makes and models. The best advice I got is to make a list of need to haves and nice to haves. A big need to have was a tee-shaped cockpit. That eliminated many used boats in our 10-20K price range. Other biggies were wheel steering and a diesel inboard. We ended up buying a 1981 S2 9.2A. S2's have a good reputation for quality. She has a tee shaped cockpit, a diesel, a large cockpit (we mostly daysail so in many ways that is probably more important that head room), 6 feet of head room and was well loved by her previous owners. The point? Well the last time I had looked at an S2 was at a 1985 boat show when I was 20 years old. I had no intentions of buying one until I reduced my desires to paper and broadened my search. If you have your heart set on new, then you have already limited yourself to a mere handful of boats that might meet your needs as there are only a handful still being made. However, if you are considering a used boat, then my suggestion is to keep a fairly open mind and start hitting marinas in your neck of the woods. You might find a gem you love which you otherwise would have never considered. Bob
Lots of good advice here
But the engine and battery questions are not really addressed. First, the engine. A well maintained engine will last for many, many years. An inboard diesel will go longer than a gas outboard, but the maintanence is more expensive and probably more important. Diesel engines are far, far more expensive to buy, too. If an outboard has trouble, you can take it off the boat and bring it a mechanic. You'll have to pay a mechanic to go down to your boat if you have diesel trouble. If you are in a place with choppy water, the outboard is going to be lifted out of the water as the boat hobby-horses. That can be a problem. An inboard diesel's prop is deeper in the water and a much better bet in chop or rough seas. Diesel fuel is also safer to have aboard in quantity - the fumes are not flammable. Batteries can be charged off either engine with an alternator, just like your car battery. But here's the rub - lead acid batteries are subject to sulfation if they are not charged on a regular basis. So if you don't start the engine twice a week, you are going to wear 'em out. If you are away from the boat for an extended period, you can kill the batteries altogether. So, a solar panel trickle charger is a really good idea. I have used one for years and never, ever had any battery troubles.
But the engine and battery questions are not really addressed. First, the engine. A well maintained engine will last for many, many years. An inboard diesel will go longer than a gas outboard, but the maintanence is more expensive and probably more important. Diesel engines are far, far more expensive to buy, too. If an outboard has trouble, you can take it off the boat and bring it a mechanic. You'll have to pay a mechanic to go down to your boat if you have diesel trouble. If you are in a place with choppy water, the outboard is going to be lifted out of the water as the boat hobby-horses. That can be a problem. An inboard diesel's prop is deeper in the water and a much better bet in chop or rough seas. Diesel fuel is also safer to have aboard in quantity - the fumes are not flammable. Batteries can be charged off either engine with an alternator, just like your car battery. But here's the rub - lead acid batteries are subject to sulfation if they are not charged on a regular basis. So if you don't start the engine twice a week, you are going to wear 'em out. If you are away from the boat for an extended period, you can kill the batteries altogether. So, a solar panel trickle charger is a really good idea. I have used one for years and never, ever had any battery troubles.
Tim has it right...
I figure $5,000 a year... my boat is 30'. The way I look at it... My new car payment is sitting in the water. We drive beaters. You choice... new car... or old sailboat!
I figure $5,000 a year... my boat is 30'. The way I look at it... My new car payment is sitting in the water. We drive beaters. You choice... new car... or old sailboat!
Grab that base slip for sure
Have friends that a long time ago took a slip at the navel station at the south end of Lake Michigan (by Chicago). The rates at military installations go up VERRRYY SLOOOWWLLYY compared to the outside world. They are paying about $1000.00 a season(May to Oct.) compared to $3600.00 in Monroe harbor. Granted the base is 12 miles around the corner and not right downtown, but that is some serious difference in cash! Some of my opions, Inboard deisel 30 to 33 feet(my 1980 Hunter 30 has 6'1" headroom) My expenses are about $2200 a year( + upgrades). Purchased boat 6 years ago for $5500. Probably have 16,000 invested now after upgrades( some we wanted/ some we needed+ maintenence( hull,paint,replaceing stuff when it breaks)) Welcome to worl of broke but eternally happy!! Lugeman
Have friends that a long time ago took a slip at the navel station at the south end of Lake Michigan (by Chicago). The rates at military installations go up VERRRYY SLOOOWWLLYY compared to the outside world. They are paying about $1000.00 a season(May to Oct.) compared to $3600.00 in Monroe harbor. Granted the base is 12 miles around the corner and not right downtown, but that is some serious difference in cash! Some of my opions, Inboard deisel 30 to 33 feet(my 1980 Hunter 30 has 6'1" headroom) My expenses are about $2200 a year( + upgrades). Purchased boat 6 years ago for $5500. Probably have 16,000 invested now after upgrades( some we wanted/ some we needed+ maintenence( hull,paint,replaceing stuff when it breaks)) Welcome to worl of broke but eternally happy!! Lugeman
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