I just purchased a 76 22' Seafearer She seems to be in good condition. I have a break in the lower rudder support (Needs Welding?) I am going to sand amd paint the hull. I have some bumps unevevness on the hull. What do I use to smooth the hull out with Bondo? What other things should I do for this boat
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- Thread starter Joltnjoe
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Bumps?
The first thing to do is find out WHY the hull has bumps and is uneven. Do you mean gel-coat blisters/cracks? Are there actual "bumps"? Gel coating is a job best left to the experienced IMHO, but there are alternatives. As long as the hull is sound, I would say; use a sanding wheel and grind, then grind, grind some more - get the idea? Start w/ rough and move to fine. Good marine faring compound (bondo) will fill things in nicely. Don't worry about the circle pattern because you'll need two coats of microsphere primer (yes, expensive, but it hides imperfections and sticks like glue), then you'll worry about a regular sander before applying a quality epoxy paint. Make sure the primer is compatible w/ epoxy paint. I'm no pro and deffer to advice from one, but I rebuilt a Tanzer 16 O/N this way and everyone asks how I've kept such an old boat in such good condition. Ask a few questions at the local yard and get grinding. You'll have massive forearms this summer. Good Luck! P.S. Rather than repainting bootstripes, waterlines etc, I've found that the new color tapes they sell are pretty good. I haven't had a problem on either of my two boats.
The first thing to do is find out WHY the hull has bumps and is uneven. Do you mean gel-coat blisters/cracks? Are there actual "bumps"? Gel coating is a job best left to the experienced IMHO, but there are alternatives. As long as the hull is sound, I would say; use a sanding wheel and grind, then grind, grind some more - get the idea? Start w/ rough and move to fine. Good marine faring compound (bondo) will fill things in nicely. Don't worry about the circle pattern because you'll need two coats of microsphere primer (yes, expensive, but it hides imperfections and sticks like glue), then you'll worry about a regular sander before applying a quality epoxy paint. Make sure the primer is compatible w/ epoxy paint. I'm no pro and deffer to advice from one, but I rebuilt a Tanzer 16 O/N this way and everyone asks how I've kept such an old boat in such good condition. Ask a few questions at the local yard and get grinding. You'll have massive forearms this summer. Good Luck! P.S. Rather than repainting bootstripes, waterlines etc, I've found that the new color tapes they sell are pretty good. I haven't had a problem on either of my two boats.
Use the boat
unless there are structural problems just use the boat. It's 30 years old!!!! An old rough boat is perfect for learning how to sail. But spending a lot of time and money fixing up an old boat is usually not worth the effort. You can spend $5000 fixing up a $2000 boat and end up with a boat worth $2000. Now if you like working on boats its another matter. Personally I prefer sailing to working on a boat. If you want a really nice boat it is usually cheaper to just buy a nicer boat. I had an old Helsen 22 and had a great time sailing it for over two years. I had to fix a few things like the rigging and a new swing keel cable. But mostly I went sailing. When we decided to get a nicer boat we sold the Helsen and bought a nicer boat. It would have been very hard to make our old helsen a nice boat. Just too many warts and wrinkles. The kids loved it and I didn't worry about fish guts and spilled soft drinks.
unless there are structural problems just use the boat. It's 30 years old!!!! An old rough boat is perfect for learning how to sail. But spending a lot of time and money fixing up an old boat is usually not worth the effort. You can spend $5000 fixing up a $2000 boat and end up with a boat worth $2000. Now if you like working on boats its another matter. Personally I prefer sailing to working on a boat. If you want a really nice boat it is usually cheaper to just buy a nicer boat. I had an old Helsen 22 and had a great time sailing it for over two years. I had to fix a few things like the rigging and a new swing keel cable. But mostly I went sailing. When we decided to get a nicer boat we sold the Helsen and bought a nicer boat. It would have been very hard to make our old helsen a nice boat. Just too many warts and wrinkles. The kids loved it and I didn't worry about fish guts and spilled soft drinks.
I'm with Tom...
Gotta agree with Tom on this one... If you had purchased a 1976 45 footer for $125,000 I'd say worry about why it's blistering and stuff-- But I'd give it a good buff, a fresh bottom, air it out, and sail the be-jeezes out of that bad boy for a few years and sell it for what you paid for it. Just no real sense in throwing time and cash at it that you could be spending on sailing, dinner, and beer. Just my $0.02... B
Gotta agree with Tom on this one... If you had purchased a 1976 45 footer for $125,000 I'd say worry about why it's blistering and stuff-- But I'd give it a good buff, a fresh bottom, air it out, and sail the be-jeezes out of that bad boy for a few years and sell it for what you paid for it. Just no real sense in throwing time and cash at it that you could be spending on sailing, dinner, and beer. Just my $0.02... B
DO NOT SAND THE BOTTOM!!!
you can sand off the paint but do not damage the gel coat. You may have surface blisters. They could be in the paint or the top layer of gel coat. Your boat will out live you fine just tha way it is. Just use it and don't worry about the bottom!
you can sand off the paint but do not damage the gel coat. You may have surface blisters. They could be in the paint or the top layer of gel coat. Your boat will out live you fine just tha way it is. Just use it and don't worry about the bottom!
free user manual and product guide
from west systems is available by calling 866/937-8797 is very informative. shows repair sequences and describes fiberglass problems and their causes. I have to agree with Tom, you can put time and money into a $2000 boat, and when you get done you still have a $2000 boat. Check with the aftermarket rudder mfgs for a rudder bracket, welding and straightening small stainless parts can be more trouble than it is worth if a replacement is available off the shelf. May God bless you with wisdom and knowledge and the resources to get your project in motion. Congratulations on the 22'-according to the BUC seafarer made a 21'8" and a 22'8" in 1978, 1977 shows a 21'8" and 25', and 1976 shows 24' and 28'7" foot, however this book may be inaccurate. i can give you some specs if we can narrow it down and i can find it.
from west systems is available by calling 866/937-8797 is very informative. shows repair sequences and describes fiberglass problems and their causes. I have to agree with Tom, you can put time and money into a $2000 boat, and when you get done you still have a $2000 boat. Check with the aftermarket rudder mfgs for a rudder bracket, welding and straightening small stainless parts can be more trouble than it is worth if a replacement is available off the shelf. May God bless you with wisdom and knowledge and the resources to get your project in motion. Congratulations on the 22'-according to the BUC seafarer made a 21'8" and a 22'8" in 1978, 1977 shows a 21'8" and 25', and 1976 shows 24' and 28'7" foot, however this book may be inaccurate. i can give you some specs if we can narrow it down and i can find it.
Well....
I don't know, but if you're the type who'd wear a tie to a wedding, an' youz don't tawlk wike 'dis, it just seems you should show some pride in ownership. $3000 on a $2000 boat? Maybe not, but a few hundred in materials and 20 hrs worth of elbow grease would say a lot as you wave to the other boaters. Don't bother with the snotbags in the 60' Swans, but I guess you need to decide if you want to sail around with a smacked up gel coat and a beer in your hand. If that gets a few offended, sorry, but if cost is the big deal, what about safety? Are you going to fix the lifelines, or use some clothesline? Wait until you price sails. Regards
I don't know, but if you're the type who'd wear a tie to a wedding, an' youz don't tawlk wike 'dis, it just seems you should show some pride in ownership. $3000 on a $2000 boat? Maybe not, but a few hundred in materials and 20 hrs worth of elbow grease would say a lot as you wave to the other boaters. Don't bother with the snotbags in the 60' Swans, but I guess you need to decide if you want to sail around with a smacked up gel coat and a beer in your hand. If that gets a few offended, sorry, but if cost is the big deal, what about safety? Are you going to fix the lifelines, or use some clothesline? Wait until you price sails. Regards
Waffle..
Sorry, but that's older than the boat in question, and there's no fix for it because the quality is poor.
Sorry, but that's older than the boat in question, and there's no fix for it because the quality is poor.
Since it is an older boat, I go with Tom
Since it is an older boat, I go with Tom and the rest of everyone here. Just find out what needs to be done to keep the boat safe and then just sail, sail and sail some more. It will usually be far less expensive to buy a nicer looking boat than to redo the one you have. I have known many people that have purchased an older boat and got a bit anal about their repairs and never sailed. The boat was always in a different stage of repair. A great example would be someone i know, That does not get on this site. He bough an older boat for 4Kilobucks. He really wanted to make this a thing of beauty. He worked on it in a yard for over 3 years at $250/month. Hurricane Katrina wiped it out. He not only spent a whole bunch of money that he could never get out of the boat IF it could be sold, which it couldnt, but he missed 3 years of his life 'not ' sailing. Tony B
Since it is an older boat, I go with Tom and the rest of everyone here. Just find out what needs to be done to keep the boat safe and then just sail, sail and sail some more. It will usually be far less expensive to buy a nicer looking boat than to redo the one you have. I have known many people that have purchased an older boat and got a bit anal about their repairs and never sailed. The boat was always in a different stage of repair. A great example would be someone i know, That does not get on this site. He bough an older boat for 4Kilobucks. He really wanted to make this a thing of beauty. He worked on it in a yard for over 3 years at $250/month. Hurricane Katrina wiped it out. He not only spent a whole bunch of money that he could never get out of the boat IF it could be sold, which it couldnt, but he missed 3 years of his life 'not ' sailing. Tony B
Steve G there are a lot of reasons to own a boat
Pride of ownership is one reason. But if I had a good friend who would let me sail their boat whenever I wanted to go sailing I'd never own a boat. I own a sailboat for one reason, I love to sail!!! My wife and I were talking while driving to work this morning about meditation. Sailing is my form of meditation. It has been since my first sailboat a Sunfish that was a great little boat that purchased about 33 years ago. $350 for the boat and trailer. I can enjoy sailing anything and have. Laser's, Hobies, Windsurfers and my present boat a Pearson 323. Sailing is about the experience of sailing not about impressing the gallery. At least for me. There are a lot of "sailers" that spend their free time working on their boats. These are great people to buy boats from once they get burned out and say "sailing is just too much work". BTW I do work on my boat as needed to keep it safe and functional. Heck after a day of sailing I might even wax and polish a little while drinking my wine.
Pride of ownership is one reason. But if I had a good friend who would let me sail their boat whenever I wanted to go sailing I'd never own a boat. I own a sailboat for one reason, I love to sail!!! My wife and I were talking while driving to work this morning about meditation. Sailing is my form of meditation. It has been since my first sailboat a Sunfish that was a great little boat that purchased about 33 years ago. $350 for the boat and trailer. I can enjoy sailing anything and have. Laser's, Hobies, Windsurfers and my present boat a Pearson 323. Sailing is about the experience of sailing not about impressing the gallery. At least for me. There are a lot of "sailers" that spend their free time working on their boats. These are great people to buy boats from once they get burned out and say "sailing is just too much work". BTW I do work on my boat as needed to keep it safe and functional. Heck after a day of sailing I might even wax and polish a little while drinking my wine.
Do what makes you happy
I have a 1971 C&C 27 mkI. It's old..hull #16. I got the boat for a fair price a few years ago and it was sailable the way it was but, I like to work on things. Over the winters I have gone thru her and restored her. It helps to make me not miss sailing so much. I now have a beautiful (the best looking I think) C&C 27 that is fun to sail. I did spend a couple grand on her but she is safer and more comfortable. I also don't spend the summer working on it, I just sail, and relax..ok ok..and have a few beers. The boat has been valued at about 3 times what I have into it so it would not be a loss if I were to sell it. As long as you keep it you haven't lost anything. Most of all if it makes you happy then it is worth it. On the other hand if I had the money to buy me a brand new boat, That would make me happy too!! Do what you want, research it well so you do it right and have fun doing it!
I have a 1971 C&C 27 mkI. It's old..hull #16. I got the boat for a fair price a few years ago and it was sailable the way it was but, I like to work on things. Over the winters I have gone thru her and restored her. It helps to make me not miss sailing so much. I now have a beautiful (the best looking I think) C&C 27 that is fun to sail. I did spend a couple grand on her but she is safer and more comfortable. I also don't spend the summer working on it, I just sail, and relax..ok ok..and have a few beers. The boat has been valued at about 3 times what I have into it so it would not be a loss if I were to sell it. As long as you keep it you haven't lost anything. Most of all if it makes you happy then it is worth it. On the other hand if I had the money to buy me a brand new boat, That would make me happy too!! Do what you want, research it well so you do it right and have fun doing it!
older boats are better.
I see the point most of the guys here are trying to make. You have to decide what your plans are before spending lots of money fixing her up. I to have just bought a sailboat,its a 81' 30ft hunter. For me I enjoy fixing things up , My last boat was a power alium flat bottom boat , I spent alot fixing it up and ended up selling it for almost half of what I had in it, But that didn`t matter to me , I had more fun building it than running it anyways. I plan on fixing this one up to, because I know some day I want to try living aboard her, Adding solar power , all the eltroics, just got done with a swim platform for scubadiving off of. Its up to you what you do with your new boat,I perfer buying older boats ,their built better than the new ones, with thicker fiberglass hulls and just overall built to last. I`d rather buy an older boat and spend lots of money fixing it up the way you want. than spending lots of money for some new brite and shiny boat thats not really what you want and built cheaper, that you`ll be paying on,for the rest of your life. I`m told bottom paint needs to be done yearly if in salt water. have fun with that, and remember while doing all those repairs and upgrades will make that old boat better than that new one you just sailed by. enjoy .
I see the point most of the guys here are trying to make. You have to decide what your plans are before spending lots of money fixing her up. I to have just bought a sailboat,its a 81' 30ft hunter. For me I enjoy fixing things up , My last boat was a power alium flat bottom boat , I spent alot fixing it up and ended up selling it for almost half of what I had in it, But that didn`t matter to me , I had more fun building it than running it anyways. I plan on fixing this one up to, because I know some day I want to try living aboard her, Adding solar power , all the eltroics, just got done with a swim platform for scubadiving off of. Its up to you what you do with your new boat,I perfer buying older boats ,their built better than the new ones, with thicker fiberglass hulls and just overall built to last. I`d rather buy an older boat and spend lots of money fixing it up the way you want. than spending lots of money for some new brite and shiny boat thats not really what you want and built cheaper, that you`ll be paying on,for the rest of your life. I`m told bottom paint needs to be done yearly if in salt water. have fun with that, and remember while doing all those repairs and upgrades will make that old boat better than that new one you just sailed by. enjoy .
Older isn't better it's cheaper for a reason!!
My boat is a 1980 Pearson. That's 27 years old!!!! Convince me that it is better now than when it rolled out of the plant....no way!!!! I own a 27 year old boat because it's cheaper. Given a choice between a 2007 Catalina 30 and a 1977 catalina 30 for the same price who would buy the older boat??? Now for the same budget one might argue that an older better quality boat is better than a newer poorer quality boat. But even then you are dealing with older rigging ,electronics and engine. Buying an older boat you are hopeing that the value is decreasing more slowly than the price. But by the time a $200,000 boat is priced at $20,000 it isn't better except for the price. We all are hopeing that the PO was anal about maintenance and even though the boat's market price is $20,000 it has a $60,000 value. Unfortunately many older boats aren't well maintained and by the time they are repaired the value is less than the price.
My boat is a 1980 Pearson. That's 27 years old!!!! Convince me that it is better now than when it rolled out of the plant....no way!!!! I own a 27 year old boat because it's cheaper. Given a choice between a 2007 Catalina 30 and a 1977 catalina 30 for the same price who would buy the older boat??? Now for the same budget one might argue that an older better quality boat is better than a newer poorer quality boat. But even then you are dealing with older rigging ,electronics and engine. Buying an older boat you are hopeing that the value is decreasing more slowly than the price. But by the time a $200,000 boat is priced at $20,000 it isn't better except for the price. We all are hopeing that the PO was anal about maintenance and even though the boat's market price is $20,000 it has a $60,000 value. Unfortunately many older boats aren't well maintained and by the time they are repaired the value is less than the price.
Hey Nice Boat!
The bumps will not slow you down or spoil the way the boat sails. Unless they are causing concern, best to leave them alone or get someone who knows about boat hulls (like a marine surveyor) to look at it for you and give you an assessment. I am in agreement with the go-out-and-enjoy-it crowd (read the other posts and there are plenty of them). Since it is your first boat, find out what it will do and what you wish it would do. Once you get some time on the tiller and distance under the keel, you will be better equipped to decide if you want to put more time and investment into this boat or work toward something that fits your ideas better. Sometimes the details get in the way and we forget to enjoy the purpose of life and the reason we are here on God's blue Earth... to go sailing! I found this using Google: Seafarer Owners Website Steve Brechbiel Washington, NC USA Email Address http://www.seafareryachts.net
The bumps will not slow you down or spoil the way the boat sails. Unless they are causing concern, best to leave them alone or get someone who knows about boat hulls (like a marine surveyor) to look at it for you and give you an assessment. I am in agreement with the go-out-and-enjoy-it crowd (read the other posts and there are plenty of them). Since it is your first boat, find out what it will do and what you wish it would do. Once you get some time on the tiller and distance under the keel, you will be better equipped to decide if you want to put more time and investment into this boat or work toward something that fits your ideas better. Sometimes the details get in the way and we forget to enjoy the purpose of life and the reason we are here on God's blue Earth... to go sailing! I found this using Google: Seafarer Owners Website Steve Brechbiel Washington, NC USA Email Address http://www.seafareryachts.net
Tom
I`m not saying at all that older boats are any better than the day they were built. the older boat were built heavier from new, using more fiberglass ,and those diesel engines will out last any new engine by far, not by performents but by the amount of hours you can put on those older diesels before you have to rebuild them, verses the newer diesels may run faster on Lower RPMs they do have more problems all that computer crap to go wrong, and the blocks aren`t built as heavy either. They are cheaper because like everything else in this world everyone wants the newest thing out there,and don`t care how much its going to cost them to have it. I like older boats, because yes they are cheaper,but not cheaper built and if someone offered me a brand new hunter 30 like the one I have now,for the same price I bought mine for, I wouldn`t take it, because I know its not built any better than mine , just looks nicer.
I`m not saying at all that older boats are any better than the day they were built. the older boat were built heavier from new, using more fiberglass ,and those diesel engines will out last any new engine by far, not by performents but by the amount of hours you can put on those older diesels before you have to rebuild them, verses the newer diesels may run faster on Lower RPMs they do have more problems all that computer crap to go wrong, and the blocks aren`t built as heavy either. They are cheaper because like everything else in this world everyone wants the newest thing out there,and don`t care how much its going to cost them to have it. I like older boats, because yes they are cheaper,but not cheaper built and if someone offered me a brand new hunter 30 like the one I have now,for the same price I bought mine for, I wouldn`t take it, because I know its not built any better than mine , just looks nicer.
Chet I don't agree
There has been progress in boat design and in engine design. Polymer chemistry has improved and a lot of electronic stuff is great. I remember when a car that got 100K was exceptional. My 1999 toyota has 90 K and I haven't done anything except change the oil and tires!!!! Not even the spark plugs!!! I remember in my old ford having to change points and plugs at least once a year. Fiberglass technology has come a long way. A modern quality boat is better. A lighter hull isn't a bad thing especially if it is stronger. There were crap boats in the good old days and there are crap boats being built today. But a quality boat built today is better than a quality built boat from the good ole days...or at least it should be.
There has been progress in boat design and in engine design. Polymer chemistry has improved and a lot of electronic stuff is great. I remember when a car that got 100K was exceptional. My 1999 toyota has 90 K and I haven't done anything except change the oil and tires!!!! Not even the spark plugs!!! I remember in my old ford having to change points and plugs at least once a year. Fiberglass technology has come a long way. A modern quality boat is better. A lighter hull isn't a bad thing especially if it is stronger. There were crap boats in the good old days and there are crap boats being built today. But a quality boat built today is better than a quality built boat from the good ole days...or at least it should be.
Thanks Tom
Whew! For a while there I thought I was going to have to yank all the tinned wire, replace my ball valves with gates, throw my electronic tank monitors overboard, grind the Kevlar reinforcement out of the hull and gosh knows what else to have a better boat. And oh yea, I would have to locate that pesky computer hiding somewhere on my Yanmar! *yks
Whew! For a while there I thought I was going to have to yank all the tinned wire, replace my ball valves with gates, throw my electronic tank monitors overboard, grind the Kevlar reinforcement out of the hull and gosh knows what else to have a better boat. And oh yea, I would have to locate that pesky computer hiding somewhere on my Yanmar! *yks
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