I am a previous powerboat owner and i also had a 20ft retractable keel sailboat that i mostly putted around on with a 9hp motor and fished off of, now my wife and i have decided to travel to turkey from wilmington nc on a sailboat, is a 30 footer ok for this??and what kind of keel?? i am a novice but am very determined , I will also buy something that is a fixxer upper, i know nothing about traveling across the atlantic and have mostley been in lakes...help!!!!!
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I suppose a solid hull would be the only reasonable critria. After that, who knows. Just make sure you take enough water, and leave at the right time of year.
People have done the Atlantic in folding kayaks, 4 foot boats, and other such crap.
I say go for it.
People have done the Atlantic in folding kayaks, 4 foot boats, and other such crap.
I say go for it.
I s that Turkey ,with a capital T ? I don't want to be one to put out your dreams ,but I would work my way into something like that .I spent some time in that area and it is wounderful .But maybe a charter in the area will do .Dream on ! Do It
Christian—
You're basically looking for a pocket bluewater cruising boat. I'd highly recommend looking at James Baldwin's list of boats as a starting point. It would help a lot if you said what your budget for the boat is roughly, since that will determine which boats you can choose from.
You're basically looking for a pocket bluewater cruising boat. I'd highly recommend looking at James Baldwin's list of boats as a starting point. It would help a lot if you said what your budget for the boat is roughly, since that will determine which boats you can choose from.
This forum is a great resource for those with some base knowledge but the amount of help you can get here will be a drop in the bucket to what you need. I’ve got nothing encouraging to say which is as it should be because, if you could be dissuaded by anyone, there’s no way you’ll make it through all that lies between you and accomplishing a dream like this.
You say you will buy a “fixer upper”. If that is because you want the experience and satisfaction of redoing the boat yourself and knowing everything about her inside and out, well and good. If, as I suspect, it’s a budget issue, forget it. For planning purposes, a $50,000 boat is $50,000 by the time it’s ready, no matter what you pay for it. Even if you are providing much of the labor, you are not earning money some other way while you are working on the boat. You’ll be paying much more for all your supplies, buying retail and getting full quantities of stuff that a boatyard worker would just be take out of a bin. Your boat will end up costing somewhat less out of pocket but the difference will not be enough to make the fixer upper a much more feasible dream than buying a boat ready to go if you plan on leaving any time soon.
If you are planning to spend years on this, working evenings and weekends, and spreading the costs out, it’s a different story. If you are thinking of a specific objective like Turkey, I imagine you have a reason for going. Is that reason still going to be there in 5 – 10 years? If you plan on going anytime soon, don’t let fixing up and re-fitting a boat be a factor in your economic planning. There are other good reasons for re-doing a boat yourself but you shouldn’t be undertaking it if you couldn’t afford to just buy one ready to go. Even if you do that, you will have some painful and incredibly expensive surprises.
A 30 footer or even smaller can be capable of the trip but most vessels of that size and even considerably larger are not. The devil is in the details, not what kind of keel the boat has. You’ve got to know all those details which cover, rigging, plumbing, electronics, structure, etc., etc.
The most difficult part is that you have no way, with your experience, of predicting how the most critical part of the vessel system will perform. Every year, the Coast Guard hauls people off of yachts at great risk and expense and leaves the boats adrift because their crew’s could not anticipate just how debilitating heavy weather at sea can be. Case in point: A friend’s partner in their 45 foot boat left Bermuda with a professional delivery captain and two semi experienced friends a few years ago. They encountered a late spring gale and hit the “Easy Button” four days later and took the chopper home. The boat was found adrift a week later and I saw her shortly after she was towed in. She was fine. No damage beyond a bent bow pulpit from the tow. She probably would have drifted intact clear across the Atlantic if a ship hadn’t stumbled across her. No other repairs needed aside from drying out the cushions.
This was a much larger and better found vessel than it sounds like you can hope to put together. The boat itself was in no real danger. The crew was in such danger from the pounding they were taking, INSIDE THE BOAT, that they had to be rescued. Now, there is clearly a psychological issue here. These were four big, strong guys and one an experienced professional. A couple years later, single handed grandmother Donna Lange, encounters a major storm, not just a spring gale, in the same general area and spends 36 hours at the helm after wind vane failure and brings her 26 footer into Bermuda unassisted.
For a bit on attitude and seamanship, see this:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/Seamanship.htm
Until you have some real cruising experience, you just don’t know what your psychological aptitude for this kind of thing is. There’s nothing worse, according to friends who have seen it, than the last look at your vessel from the chopper rescue basket after you have put so much into her.
I’ve been cruising for 40 years and professionally involved with boats for most of that time. I’ve spent the bulk of my winter time for three years getting my boat ready for cruises to Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. A “cruise” to Turkey would really give me pause. I can’t imagine learning all that from scratch. It’s been done though. Donna Lange made her circumnavigation with only a few years of experience.
Most of the work I’ve done on my boat is documented on my web site. You might want to go through it:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/RWL.htm
I paid 15 grand for her. I’m now about 40 grand out of pocket and an equal amount more if you count the value of my labor time. I’d be lucky to get 20 for her in today’s market which is another aspect of boat ownership you should contemplate. OTOH, the investment has already been more than returned and I haven’t even gotten to Canada yet.
BTW, in the size and cost range you seem to be considering, it would be hard to beat an E 32. Buy from fresh water if you can. There is one for sail somewhere out in MI that someone asked me about a couple weeks ago and then didn’t buy. If you are serious, you should go look for her.
I am surprised to see no one else gave you the advice you need. You should be planning long term here and gaining as much experience sailing and reading about this voyage. People with much more experience have died doing this. Have you ever sailed through the night? This can be exhausting for 2 people.
You can get a 30 footer that will do this. It will likely have a full keel. You will probably spend as much money preparing the boat for this voyage than for the boat itself. There are groups of boats that will cross together periodically.
But your best bet is to buy a boat and spend lots of time coastal cruising. When you are comfortable with the boat, navigating, safety procedures, maintenance(rigging, engine, electrical, etc) sail for 7 days east and then turn around and come back. This will only be a tease of the actual journey.
Added: Sorry Roger, you must have hit send before I did.
You can get a 30 footer that will do this. It will likely have a full keel. You will probably spend as much money preparing the boat for this voyage than for the boat itself. There are groups of boats that will cross together periodically.
But your best bet is to buy a boat and spend lots of time coastal cruising. When you are comfortable with the boat, navigating, safety procedures, maintenance(rigging, engine, electrical, etc) sail for 7 days east and then turn around and come back. This will only be a tease of the actual journey.
Added: Sorry Roger, you must have hit send before I did.
Roger's advice about preparing yourself, and how much it is going to cost to prepare a boat is very valid. Work your way up to doing it, gaining the experience and skills you need as you go. Don't underestimate the cost of doing this... or how much you have yet to learn. There are no mechanics, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, riggers or composite engineers at sea... just you... and you have to learn a lot in different areas and skills to be prepared for cruising.
You are a better man than I... Gunga-Din!
Wow... that's a lot to bite off all at once. With a 30 footer... you'll be banging your head against the wall going stir-crazy! It can be done... with all the cr*p you'll have to bring... won't be much room down below. You will be divorced if you make it back.
Whatever you think it will really cost (do you homework now)... double it.
I personally would buy a couple of airline tickets... it will be much cheaper... and you would have a better chance of coming back to America in one piece.
Get a full keel... practice your Hail-Mary's... and good luck!
thanks for the insite
the reason for going to turkey is my wife is turkish and im at that point in my life were itts time to do something tha i will remeber, as far as a fixxer upper,boats lose their value so quickly and i'm amazed at how cheap a decent 30 fter is on ebay with a little work, cant you steer around storms??????gps/radar and so forth??thanks for your help...
the reason for going to turkey is my wife is turkish and im at that point in my life were itts time to do something tha i will remeber, as far as a fixxer upper,boats lose their value so quickly and i'm amazed at how cheap a decent 30 fter is on ebay with a little work, cant you steer around storms??????gps/radar and so forth??thanks for your help...
We recently answered questions concerning a proper gift for a 17 year old novice sailor. There were several books mentioned .I suggest that you read all of them and also all of the books by Hal Roth ,Eric Hiscock and Lyn and Larry Pardey. A well found thirty foot boat is certainly able to make the trip. More importantly is the question are you and your wife ready and able? Can you both tolerate the closeness and primitive conditions that you must have on a thirty foot boat. Can you discipline your selves for water conservation, being polite to each other regardless of the conditions.
The typical trip would leave the east coast of USA stop at Bermuda, The Azores, Gibralter, Italy and home.
The typical trip would leave the east coast of USA stop at Bermuda, The Azores, Gibralter, Italy and home.
I can answer that last question. No, you cannot steer around storms. You will encounter unbelievable conditions in the Atlantic. And I can tell you that the Med can be just as bad. Check out this website: http://www.worldcruising.com/ . Then learn what they require for outfitting just to join their rally. Someone mentioned it above, the cost of preparation for a safe journey will double the cost.
I have added a picture. This is not to scare you only to help you understand how much experience and respect you need to have for the ocean. And this was on Lake Erie where I use to sail.
I have added a picture. This is not to scare you only to help you understand how much experience and respect you need to have for the ocean. And this was on Lake Erie where I use to sail.
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And they are just about right. After three years, my boat is almost ready for coastal cruises to Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. To prepare for a cruise to Turkey, I would expect to spend about her purchase price and another full winter of working on her nearly full time.
thanks
just wanted to thank everyone for their help and that last picture is a little scary....
im till pondering my thoughts..
just wanted to thank everyone for their help and that last picture is a little scary....
im till pondering my thoughts..
Believe me, if you do just things like this,
http://home.roadrunner.com/~bmssez/06Cruise.htm
http://home.roadrunner.com/~bmssez/07JuneCruise.htm
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/0907Cruise.htm
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/GEfiles/Strider08Cruise.kml
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/PEarticles.htm
you will remember. I say this from the perspective of having been sailing since 1963, seen a 100 foot schooner struggling back into the sunlight after being completely under water except for her two masts in the Gulf Stream, and sailing on a Russian square rigger through the tail end of a hurricane. Just casting off the lines before sunset, sailing across Portland harbor, anchoring for the night, and returning in the morning is still magic.
From your experience level, ANYTHING you do may be an incredible memory and the experience of a lifetime. If it isn't, it will be because you are one of the many, in fact the majority, of people who just don't find being cramped and uncomfortable sufficiently offset by the challenge, scenery, and adventure. In that case, you will more than detest ocean cruising. Wouldn't you rather find out before spending years and everything else on a boat you then have to dump for a fraction of what you put into it?
Here is a plan:
1) Read everything.
2) Take a small boat dinghy sailing course.
3) Take a keel boat cruising course.
4) Take one one of those courses followed by a week charter some of the charter outfits offer in Carribean.
5) Charter a boat in Turkey.
You'll be able to bail out at any point if you decide the sailing life isn't for you. At every step you will "have done something" without being commited to something that cuts off your other options. If you do turn out to be one of the very, very few who are cut out for the cruising life, then it will be time to think about getting a boat.
Not much to add but
A lot of good advice for you to consider. I was scared for you till you said you would think on it a bit.
People here are well versed and have run the course, I hate to say don't do it because of how much experience someone may have versus you but I have recently been scared on a 36' a friend and I have sailed for yrs. We were just coming back to Long Island from Block Island. Haven't been that scared in yrs and yrs, since I was 7 on my first sailboat. Well, there is the time I lost my keel under a bridge while racing and the time a didn't consider the high tide when anchoring over night and broke free in some weather. Or...
The point being that 31 yrs later I can't anticipate for certain what can happen on the water, even local cruising, but having some experience may help you negotiate the unforeseen circumstances that you may encounter.
Please be careful, take a class and ask you instructor what he feels about your progress regarding your goals. Roger Long has given you a great start, matter fact I think I'm taking my wife into a trip to Maine now.
Be Safe
A lot of good advice for you to consider. I was scared for you till you said you would think on it a bit.
People here are well versed and have run the course, I hate to say don't do it because of how much experience someone may have versus you but I have recently been scared on a 36' a friend and I have sailed for yrs. We were just coming back to Long Island from Block Island. Haven't been that scared in yrs and yrs, since I was 7 on my first sailboat. Well, there is the time I lost my keel under a bridge while racing and the time a didn't consider the high tide when anchoring over night and broke free in some weather. Or...
The point being that 31 yrs later I can't anticipate for certain what can happen on the water, even local cruising, but having some experience may help you negotiate the unforeseen circumstances that you may encounter.
Please be careful, take a class and ask you instructor what he feels about your progress regarding your goals. Roger Long has given you a great start, matter fact I think I'm taking my wife into a trip to Maine now.
Be Safe
Go to a boat show
A couple of facts:
Big boats go faster than small boats
Big boats have more room inside than small boats
The amount of food, water, and fuel you eat, drink, burn depends on how long you stay at sea.
If you are going to go approx 2000 miles at 4 knots it is going to take you;
2000/4=500 hours or 21 days. A couple of questions:
Can you get that much food (and yourselves) into a 30' boat?
Will there be enough tankage for water and fuel?
Can you and the admerial stand to be that close for that long?
A 30' boat can certianly go the distance. The real question is do you want to subject yourselves to that kind of "closeness"?:dance:
A couple of facts:
Big boats go faster than small boats
Big boats have more room inside than small boats
The amount of food, water, and fuel you eat, drink, burn depends on how long you stay at sea.
If you are going to go approx 2000 miles at 4 knots it is going to take you;
2000/4=500 hours or 21 days. A couple of questions:
Can you get that much food (and yourselves) into a 30' boat?
Will there be enough tankage for water and fuel?
Can you and the admerial stand to be that close for that long?
A 30' boat can certianly go the distance. The real question is do you want to subject yourselves to that kind of "closeness"?:dance:
On the other hand
It's not as much as you might think. Speed length ratio of .9 is a reasonable average speed in good conditons. So a speed of a 25 foot waterline boat (about a 30 footer) would be 4.5 knots. 33 foot waterline (about a similar 40 footer) would be 5.2 knots, just 15% faster.
True. Like houses you pay for the room. Look at the sharp jump used boat prices take between 32 and 36 feet in the ads. More important to safe operation, the strains and work of handling sails, anchors, and rigging go up as well. Exhaustion and it's effect on judgement is the big killer at sea. The larger boat will be more comfortable and less draining as long as you are just riding. When you have to get out on deck and do things, the larger boat will wear you out a lot faster.
There are a lot of older people with 45 footers who don't sail much any more because the boat is just too much to handle. If they had a 30 - 32 footer, they would still be cruising. I have a 32 footer because I plan to be cruising in her into my 80's or beyond.
You won't be making much money once you start cruising. The bigger the boat, the faster the money drains away.
But, it can be done. There is a family of 5 here in Maine who lived aboard and cruised to the arctic in a 32 footer. The Pardy's live aboard and cruise extensively in something even smaller.
Probably better bring this out again. Have the "admiral" read it. If she doesn't laugh, better do some thinking.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/TheLiveaboardSimulator.htm
choices...
Since you are also "Turkish related".... the goal might be to sail in the Eastern Med when you get there.....
So....
Fractional ownership - have you looked in to it? There are formal organizations that do this... . There are a LOT of individuals that might do this.... Many English folks head out that way and retire..... a fractional ownership might really work well... buy 1/2 the boat - that is already there!!!!
Gibraltar.... lots of boats used to be for sale here... good community to ask around in.... You could fly from here to there - cheap - and the sail on in the Med.... so you get your sail time - and buy inexpensive... and get the best of all worlds.....
buy in Turkey... boats come up for sale there... just buy there and then go.... you can research what you might want.... then focus on areas of inteterest - and wait for the "right thing" to come up.... Really... you can research this a lot... talk to people on Skype........
Skype your research.... it's cheap - and you can talk to people all over... the sail community talks to each other.... If you aren't willing to do a serious alternative search - then you probably aren't going to do the prep necessary to get to the Eastern Med....
Get involved in UK sailing communities... REALLY.... do you buy the UK mags??? there are a LOT of resources that way... It seems that a good number of retired UK folks do buy boats and go to Turkey... so learn all about how they do it....
You could always stick with your plan. Kind of like deciding to go to California... should you walk or drive or fly or bike? all 4 work... but what is the best way for you??
just my 0.015 worth...
(I tried the Ebay route.. somethings work - most don't.. say 2 out of 4 were good experiences so far..... and you DON"T save a huge amount of money over just shopping around...)
(( Some people mention Craig's List.... BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS!!! CL is the home of scammers - for sure.....))
--jr
Since you are also "Turkish related".... the goal might be to sail in the Eastern Med when you get there.....
So....
Fractional ownership - have you looked in to it? There are formal organizations that do this... . There are a LOT of individuals that might do this.... Many English folks head out that way and retire..... a fractional ownership might really work well... buy 1/2 the boat - that is already there!!!!
Gibraltar.... lots of boats used to be for sale here... good community to ask around in.... You could fly from here to there - cheap - and the sail on in the Med.... so you get your sail time - and buy inexpensive... and get the best of all worlds.....
buy in Turkey... boats come up for sale there... just buy there and then go.... you can research what you might want.... then focus on areas of inteterest - and wait for the "right thing" to come up.... Really... you can research this a lot... talk to people on Skype........
Skype your research.... it's cheap - and you can talk to people all over... the sail community talks to each other.... If you aren't willing to do a serious alternative search - then you probably aren't going to do the prep necessary to get to the Eastern Med....
Get involved in UK sailing communities... REALLY.... do you buy the UK mags??? there are a LOT of resources that way... It seems that a good number of retired UK folks do buy boats and go to Turkey... so learn all about how they do it....
You could always stick with your plan. Kind of like deciding to go to California... should you walk or drive or fly or bike? all 4 work... but what is the best way for you??
just my 0.015 worth...
(I tried the Ebay route.. somethings work - most don't.. say 2 out of 4 were good experiences so far..... and you DON"T save a huge amount of money over just shopping around...)
(( Some people mention Craig's List.... BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS!!! CL is the home of scammers - for sure.....))
--jr
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