New sailor requesting basic rigging help

[CaptainMorganHernan]

Hi All,

Let me first start by saying that I'm completely new to sailing and just bought my first boat (67" Bahama Islander 24') which apparantley is a great starter boat. Needless to say I'm thrilled. While the boat is in good condition I could use some advice on a couple of things. Mainly, the guy who sold it to me told me it was in perfect sailing condition except that he would "replace the lines" now I'm assuming in lamens terms that means the majority of the rope that goes around the mast and the other that goes around the boat. As I was there the other day I looked up and realized I wouldn't even know where to start to do this. I know this is a fairly common thing though, most people do this once every year or two is my understand. Is it normal to pay someone to do this? Do I bring the mast down? I'm completely lost. Do any of you have any advice or know of a place that will do it around Benicia, CA (near San Fran, Alameda etc in San Pablo bay)? If so how much will they charge?

Second, I need the hull cleaned. I talked to the marina across from mine and told me they would do it for $270. This seems appropriate to me, but I'd figure I'd ask you experts.

Finally I need to put an out board engine. Engines I'm less new with as I grew up around boats just not sailboats. I'm leaning towards a Honda 4-stroke long shaft 9.9hp. Any recommendations? Is that too much horsepower? Two little? Am I right to want to stick to a 4 stroke (I understand the basic pros and cons)

Sorry for all the amateur questions but I truly appreciate the help and am excited to be a member of the community.

Regards!

Morgan Hernan

 

[higgs]

Good questions and no apology needed.

It is hard to know if the PO meant all ropes on your boat or if he was referring to dock lines.

Lines used for controlling the sails are generally called sheets and those used to raise sails are halyards. A visual inspection should suffice. I have had jib/main sheets and halyards last 15 years or more. Lines with signs of wear and fraying, or lines with dark spots on them are suspect. Those dark spots can be a sign of weakened fibers.

Halyards on a boat as old as yours are probably rope spliced to wire. Today, most sailors prefer all rope halyards, but then the sheaves (pulleys) at the mast head will probably have to be changed. For halyards you want low stretch line. If you already have all rope, then they are probably not original. There are several ways to change halyards with the mast up. I prefer to use seizing wire to connect the new halyard to the end of the old one, wrap with rigging tape, and then simply use the old one to thread the new through. If your halyards are inside your mast - which they probably are not with a boat this old - one needs to be a little more careful to ensure the new halyard is well attached as should you lose the end inside the mast, getting it out is a pain.

There are also going to be a number of control lines for trimming the main and reefing. Get a West Marine catalog and read their section on running rigging (another term for all these lines). They also make recommendations for what type of line to use.

Then there are dock lines.....

 

[95164]

Hi Morgan, that is a good boat, I owned one a few years back. I'll be happy to discuss your options if you'd like to give me a call. We offer Samson XLS and other line here, as well as wire/rope halyards. Here's a link to that page of our site:

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/category.htm?fno=400&cat=1601

toll free 877-932-7245 ext.116, Mon-Fri, 9-5 Pacific

 

[CalebD]

Higgs already mentioned the trick about attaching the new length of 'halyard' to the old one and pulling it through the block at the top of the mast. He did not mention that you can also put a few stitches with a sailing sewing kit (cheap and you should have one) before wrapping the 2 ends together with tape (duct tape will do fine).
Higgs also for got to mention that sailors do not refer to any of the 'lines' on a boat as 'rope'. They are all lines of on sort of another, be they halyards, sheets, guys, lanyards, dock lines or whatever - but not rope. Rope is a landsman's term but it is a foregiveable offence if you still want to call it that.

$270 for cleaning the hull does not sound outrageously expensive and in many ways is quite reasonable. They have to haul your boat out and will then power spray or pressure wash the bottom to get all the growth off. That said, if you have a trailer and a pressure washer you can do it for yourself for a lot less. If you don't have a trailer then just go with the estimate you were given as to just haul the boat out, put it on stands, allow you to do the cleaning and re-launching will cost close to $200 or so (don't hold me to that estimate). The other issue is that some places you can get hauled out will not let you do your own work.

9.9 HP is on the plenty side of HP for your boat but is certainly not too much. You could easily get away with less but why would you give up the extra reserve power for times when you may need it. 2 strokes are lighter, older and harder to find but you already knew that.

Good luck and congrats on the boat.

 

[Steve Dion]

Morgan:

Replacing the running rigging Halyard (up/down the mast lines) is relatively easy of they are all line. Our standard procedure is to cut the shackles off the end of the line, open a large paper clip and hook it into the old line and the new line. Wrap it with a little rigging tape (white electrical tape works fine) and pull it through. I just did this exact procedure last weekend with a 170' of line.

If you do have a wire to rope halyard it is a little more difficult but not much. You do NOT need to drop your mast. You can purchase these wire to rope units from a place like West Marine (probably $120-125)

 

[Netrick]

[FONT=&quot]Welcome aboard Captain Morgan Hernan. You have come to the right place.[/FONT]

 

[Joe]

call a dive service...

and ask them for an inspection and a maintenance proposal. Here in San Diego I have a reliable diver who cleans the hull once a month for around 1.20 per foot. When I hired him he charged me 60 bucks for inspection and intitial cleaning... then 30 bucks per month thereafter. In the summer he drops by every 3 weeks instead of the normal 4 to 5. I have not had to haul my boat for almost 6 years. because regularly wiping down the hard shell painted bottom with a sponge, instead of an abrasive pad, has proven very effective.

Regarding your running rigging, you might try looking for a schematic of your boat through the Islander owners association.... try google. But you should be able to figure everything out with a good sailing manual such as Annapolis Book of Seamanship. Also check the West Marine advisor to help with other questions.

Finally, since you're a novice, I would recommend taking some sailing lessons. Sailboat rigging is pretty standard from boat to boat.... what you need to know is what a line is for just by looking at it, then know how to use it.

BTW.... I found a lot of stuff just by googling "islander 26"

 

[CalebD]

The only real problem is the landsmen usually think of sheets as sails which is really a problem in communication. Who wouldn't want to sleep in the sails if there were no sheets available?
I will agree that a rope is a rope. But once it is on a boat it is a line. Bludgeon the pinholes matey as there is a tear in the sheets?
Once a piece of rope is on a boat it becomes quite critical to pull or ease the right one which is why they have their own names - hence rope is meaningless.
An anchor line is made of rope but is called a rode. A sheet pulls in the sails and is no longer a rope. A halyard raises the sails and is elevated above rope status by its usage. "Toss me a piece of rope." is for landsmen. "Toss me a line" is for sailors.
"Drop me a line." is for writers or crane operators.

 

[Capt. Ed]

Welcome aboard .As you see you have received a lot of info . I have always gone by the rule that you can't know everything ,so ask and listen . One thing I might add is to find a knowledgeable local sailor to guide you in your endeavors .It may mean hiring a captain for a sail or two ,but it will pay dividends in the end . Also take a class with you local Power/AUX squadrons . Have fun

 

[Stu Jackson]

The Islander Bahmas came with closed body turnbuckles on the

standing rigging (the wires that hold up the mast). I would strongly urge you to check these out and replace them with open body turnbuckles, even though i's not part of your original question. I had a friend with one who lost his forestay in howling winds here on SF Bay. I had the same yucky turnbuckles and replaced them the next week. As the rigger was removing the backstay turnbuckles, it came apart in his hand. "Stu," he said, "good thing you came in today and din't wait another week!"

A 9.9 hp is just fine. 8.8 and 7.5 will also work, too.

I echo the idea to read the West Marine catalog's Advisors - good free information. Buy a few books, too and check out BoatUS's website.

Old lines can be cleaned in a washing machine if you put them in a pillowcase and close the end with a figure eight knot.

 

[John]

Morgan, two points:

One: It's not clear whether the previous owner was talking about getting your hull cleaned or repainted. It sounds to me like what you were looking at was repainting the hull, a much more expensive job. Maybe it needs that. You could probably ask the previous owner when it was last hauled out and painted. The formula I was told in the Bay is once every two years.

Second: My wife and I bought our first boat almost three years ago. We were fortunate to have some friends who are more experienced sailors. We'd have been completely lost without them. Maybe you can find somebody to help out in the same way. For instance, Latitude 38 publishes a list of people looking to crew on boats. Maybe you can arrange to take them out in exchange for their knowledge.

I also took a couple of sailing classes from one of the local sailing schools. This was extremely helpful.

 

[DanW9494]

Probably the most important lines on your boat are called reefing lines. Learn everything about using them.

Start out with the motor on (since you know how to use it and you can take back control of your boat with it), and with your boat fully reefed.
As you get more comfortable with the wind power on your boat, start increasing the size of your sails. But you have to know how to reef them when you or your guests get uncomfortable in the afternoons as the wind picks up and gusts.

Go back and forth reefing and unreefing and eventually you can turn the motor off and be a sailor.

And if you want your wife to keep sailing with you years from now, get the lessons first.

 

[CaptainMorganHernan]

Everyone,

Thank you so much for all the advice. I've learned a lot from your posts and I also feel really welcome. It's a pleasure to be among you!

-Morgan Hernan

 

[higgs]

It is a pleasure to have you as part of our group.

 

[Benny]

It seems to me that for $270 they intend to haul the boat out and pressure wash the bottom. If you are doing this you might as well apply antifoul paint if it needs it. A regular cleaning by a diver should not be more than $40 for a 24' boat. Do not know the condition of the bottom but if it resembles a mussels farm then a haul out and pressure wash may be in order.

 

[Lee]

Welcome Morgan, well firstly, it is a mistake to think that this forum is loaded with 'experts' NOT true.
Don't follow advice blindly, rather get a book written by a friend of mine, "The Complete Riggers Aprecntice" by Brian Toss; will tell you what you need to do, if in doubt hire an real expert rigger. In fact, look up Dave K. who lives aboard his Erickson there in Benica Marina, he is a professional diver, and meticulous with boats. He would point you in the right direction, real stand-up guy.
A six horse is enough for that boat, I used a four on mine. You could use a fifty and not get headway against some of that current there in the Carquinez Stait, so don't try, rather WATCH the tides closely, keep a hook with chain & rode minimum 150 ft at the ready.That is a good starter boat, get into a Power/sail boat squadron as soon as you can, ask Dave.

Cheers mate....\;-)