new sailor needing advice on boats

Eric M · Dec 15, 2010

Colin,
I know it has been said above, but pass on both of the boats you have discussed above. Boats cost, way, way, way more as pieces than they are worth as boats so wait till you find one that is complete.
You said you are ready to give sailing a try, buying a boat is a big step. There are lots and lots of sailing clubs in your area. You will find most are very welcoming to folks learning to get into sailing. Check them out, consider offering yourself up as crew for racing. It is a great way to try out a variety of different boats, meet people who have owned lots of different boats and figure out what sort of boat you are really interested in owning. As a race boat owner, I would always let the crew sail the boat to and from the race course and we even took turns driving during the races. There are lots of opportunites to sail on the best kind of boats (one that someone else owns)
The reason there are so many different kinds of sailboats out there is because there is no such thing as the perfect boat for every situation and every person.
Good Luck,
--Eric

Deadhead · Dec 15, 2010

Check this out:

http://toledo.craigslist.org/boa/2100547479.html

Or this if you want a little more:

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/boa/2101040846.html

There are plenty of sail-able boats out there. Keep looking.

mark_swart · Dec 15, 2010

Colin -- as has been said before, let the two you have already found go to some other unlucky soul. Here is my advice to get you on the water cheap:
EBAY EBAY EBAY! Keep an eye on it every week and something will pop up. Boatangel.org always has boats on there that seem to go for a pittance. For example, an 87 model Hunter 23 with trailer went for $250 on there last week. It needed a boom, mainsail, bottom job, engine and cleanup inside. I'm pretty sure you could do all of that for $2K if you buy used parts. Fixed up and including the trailer, that's about a $5K boat.
There are plenty of places online (and also ebay yet again) where you can find used sails. If you are just learning, don't worry about buying new sails. As long as the ones you find aren't ripped up, you won't know the difference as far as performance. You can fudge quite a bit on jib size as long as the luff isn't too long.
If you find a popular brand (Hunter, Macgregor, Catalina) it's easier to find used parts and sails. And it will be easier for you to sell later when you have three-foot-itis and want a 30 footer!
You can find two-stoke outboards pretty cheap now since people are switching to four strokes. Even though it is loud and smells funny, you get more horsepower and less weight with a two stroke.
Craigslist is pretty good for boats too, and if you google "craigslist nationwide search" you can search multiple cities at once.
I personally think 16-23 feet is fine to start out on, especially if you have your dad there to coach you for the first few sails.
Good luck!

higgs · Dec 15, 2010

Acquiring the boat is a small part of what it will cost you to have a boat.

Barnacle Bill · Dec 15, 2010

OK, I will write about the boat you are thinking of. It is a trailerable 26-footer that has the same hull as the Parker Dawson 26 (which is a center cockpit boat). The South Coast 26A (as it was called) has a bulb keel that is lowered and raised by an electric winch located on the center mounted table in the cabin. The keel has a wedge system so when it is in the down position it locks into place. When it is in the up position, it bangs around like Big Ben. The keel configuration is good for beaching the boat when in the up position, as well as launching and retrieving the boat. Also can be up when motoring in shallow water, but you want it down when sailing. The rudder was made out of a big mahogany board that fit into a cast aluminum rudder head. It had a handle cut out on the top and a slot where a bolt could ride inside of when the rudder was raised up or down. There was a crank, if I remember right, that kept the board in place (down when sailing and up when launching, etc.). The boat was under 8.5 feet so you do not need a permit to haul her down the road. It had about 6' headroom and berths for 4. There is a private head to port of the companionway where a door could be closed so you didn't have to kick everybody out of the cabin to use it. A hanging locker was abaft it. On the port side is the galley unit which is a fiberglass structure that is apart of the interior pan. It came with an inline faucet electric pump (I think Par was the mfg). The ice box was huge and it was designed to be accessed from the starboard cockpit locker too, but no one I know has a long enough arm to do so. The mast section is smaller than most 26 foot boats. So that makes it easier to raise and lower, but might not be sturdy enough for rough conditions. I have seen the boat sailed in very rough conditions and while my opinion of the boat is it is of inland quality (not offshore) it is pretty forgiving. It definitely is not a fast boat (so no good for racing), but it is perfect for the Florida Keys or any place where the water is skinny. Those with wheels had an Edson system that ran through the transom and attached to the aluminum rudder head with a push pull cable arrangement. The boat came with a bow rail and lifelines. I think a stern rail was optional. The leading edge of the trunk cabin has a nice curve to it that will oil can when you stand on it or push on it. That is totally normal. All the new boats out of the box were like that and I never saw any problems. There was an anchor locker forward.
If you need sailmaker measurements on the boat so get good fitting sails, or a copy of the original brochure, get in touch with me as I think I have that info. Might be able to help you out with other questions about the boat you might have as well. It can take a 10 hp outboard. I don't think it is such a bad idea to take a free boat if it is well found and not a piece of crap or if it doesn't have lots of deck delamination problems, etc. You can always get sails. You can make the rudder out of wood yourself. If the rudder head is not there, you can get something welded up at a machine shop and you can retrofit it on. If the keel winch is shot, you can buy another. Good luck and let me know if you need some help.

zeehag · Dec 19, 2010

sounds like a plan.. have fun and smooth sailing....make sure the water stays on the outside.

caguy · Dec 19, 2010

Here are some links to some of the Luger sites. The last one is a friend with a Luger 30. He gave up on it but did some nice work to the interior of it. It got damaged in a driveway storm before he finished it. The insurance company cashed him out.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=118005231571751

http://lugerboats.webs.com/home/index.html

http://voyager30.blogspot.com/

There is a link at the bottom after my name to my site where I have more information on the Luger.
Good Luck,

mark_swart · Dec 20, 2010

I think that sounds like a good starter boat / project! I googled the model and there just isn't that much to the inside, so hopefully a good cleanup will do wonders. Cleaning, painting and new cushions can do wonders.
Let us know how it works out. I had a Luger Leeward 16 about 10 years ago... bought it for $250, painted it up and sailed it for the summer, sold it in the fall for $750 and moved on to my next boat!

dscribner · Dec 20, 2010

Nice. This makes so much more sense than the other one. Sailable but needing a little sprucing up. Sounds like a blind date I had in '77. Ebay would be a great place for the head sail. Beaching it will be a breeze for those outings with your friends. And trailer is always a bonus. Plus, it should be trailerable with most small 6's. You'll enjoy this one.

Rick D · Dec 20, 2010

Try Here...

...for a head sail. You will need your measurements. http://minneysyachtsurplus.com/

justondean · Dec 25, 2010

rgranger,

did you mean to put that many zeros on the tolling motor thrust?

"Another thing to consider. If you are sailing in a lake, a 300# thrust trolling motor is about all you need to get a small boat out of the marina. They are a lot cheaper than an OB. If you are sailing in coastal waters you will need an OB to deal with currents. "

I once tried a 36 lb thrust trolling motor and it didn't quite work well. Mostly I think due to a bad motor or something. I just got a new 50 lb thrust trolling motor that I hope to try on the boat tomorrow.

JerryA · Dec 26, 2010

Colin,

The Luger doesn't sound too bad. The shallow draft will be very helpful on the Michigan side of Lake Erie. The water on your side of the lake can get pretty shallow when the wind comes out of the West. I'll bet you can find a used headsail on ebay cheap. Figure out the measurements for what you need and start watching. I agree with everyone about finding a complete boat. It generally costs much more to fix a cheap boat than to just buy a complete cheap boat. Also there doesn't seem to be a sailboat boneyard in our neck of the woods to pull cheap parts. So try to get as complete a boat as you can to start. Don't get discouraged, as they're out there.

JerryA

LANCE ON CLOUD NINE · Dec 26, 2010

also try these guys for a used sail. Nice people, eager to help.http://www.usedsails.com/ good luck and welcome to sailing!

fox islander · Dec 26, 2010

My first two sailboats were a Catalina 22, paid $2,900...and a Hunter 23, paid $4,000...both were complete, in excellent condition and great for learning how to sail. Keep looking...it's a buyers market!

David in Sandusky · Dec 26, 2010

More thoughts

Wood = never ending project. Really.

Call marinas in the west end of Lake Erie. Ours (Sandusky Harbor Marina) often has a dozen abandoned boats they are trying to unload. Their alternative to a distressed sail is the substantial cost of cutting the boat up, and hauling it to a landfill.

Take the advice of the guys recommending that you keep looking. When they are talking smaller boats, they are thinking of budget more than ease of sailing. Most boats over 26 feet long cannot be trailered. So you are talking about renting a slip, and hauling the boat in the winter. Around $2,200 per year for our 27 footer.

A 22 footer can be easy to set up, and easy to haul (without the big towing package needed to haul a 26 footer.) You could also overnight on one, or sail over to the islands, and spend a long weekend anchoring off them.

If you want to daysail, rather than cruise, then I would think 14 to 20 feet. The Admiral and I loved sailing a Rhodes 19 in Narragansett Bay long ago.

knotalot22 · Dec 27, 2010

Colin - my daughter spent 4 months searching on craigslist and found a guy in need. She picked up a 22 foot sailboat in very sail-able condition. Needed some cosmetic repairs, but everything worked and had all sails intact. She paid $1, to transfer the title.

He was unable to sell it and could not afford the slip fees any longer. Had no trailer, so he had no option. It was a great find for her, she's limited in her cash flow. The economy is bad in many areas right now. With patience and persistence you can find great boat for almost nothing. If you have the money for a trailer (800-1500 used), that opens your market.

The boat in the slip next to mine was a 25 ft catalina. The owners let it go for $100, didn't want to pay the slip fees anymore. Outboard engine, all sails, ready to go. The new owner did spend $350 replacing all the lines. Look around, deals are out there.

Ketoj · Dec 28, 2010

For what it's worth I'd stay well away from that "free" boat!! Sounds like a VERY expensive free boat. Start by crewing with others on race night and maybe take some lessons at the local sailing club. You'll quickly learn what you like and dislike in a sailboat. Then save your nickels and buy something that maybe needs some loving but not a major refit (unless you have plenty of time on your hands and lots of disposable income).