new sailor needing advice on boats

wonkodsane · Dec 14, 2010

Pass. Save up the $5K and get a complete boat with sails, rudder, and a trailer. It sounds more like a $10K job.

Johan S. · Dec 14, 2010

colin-
I would def pass that boat by. You can find a complete free sailboat - they do occasionally come up. Just keep plugging away and looking everyday on the free section in CL. Look in several different states. Most times they are given - the are given on blocks and without a trailer.. So, far on that boat - your looking at spending $500 for a decent cheap used trailer.. Add the sails and other odds and ends and your looking at another $350... Now, your at $850... You can find a decent used sailboat with trailer for $1K and thats complete... You have to put the time in on the computer to hunt them down..

Joe · Dec 14, 2010

Instead of going out and acquiring a boat you can't sail right away... go learn to sail now. Take a class or find someone to take you out on their boat. The experience will make it easier for you to find the right boat for yourself. It will also get you associated with some people who can give you sound advice and aren't just trying to get rid of a piece of junk.

Smithy · Dec 14, 2010

I agree with the above points. Learning on someone else's boat is much cheaper than fitting out one of your own, before you even have the skills to use it properly. I'm in a similar situation - got a very cheap boat, and getting it ready for use is a balance between "good enough" and "perfect". One can easily throw thousands of dollars into a "free" boat, when better deals can be had for something more complete.

After all, it's only money, right?

Easy to say when you've plenty of it, but when you're young and scraping it up, comes a little more jealously. Try to exercise wisdom without earning it at the cost of bad decisions.

Scott T-Bird · Dec 14, 2010

First of all ...

you are on the right track! Welcome to sailing and the Sailboatowners forum!

It's not clear if you were talking about $5,000 total for the incomplete boat and the additional cost to re-fit, or if you are just talking about $5,000 just for th re-fit items.

Either way, I would pass. There is no need for somebody from Michigan to go all the way to New York for a smallish sized cruiser. Besides, that, for $5,000 you should be able to find a boat in very nice condition, with trailer, and no need to chase down sails and parts. Just look around in your neck of the woods before chasing a project in New York! I'd be very skeptical of a glowing report on the hull if the cabin is admittedly in rough shape and the boat is missing sails or they are too shredded to display as a selling feature.

On a budget of $5,000 you should be able to find a pretty nice package with everything that you need to sail the waters as soon as they are unfrozen!

Snotter · Dec 14, 2010

The cheap boats always are the most expensive.

kloudie1 · Dec 14, 2010

Welcome to the forum, Colin..
Looks like a nice old boat.. http://spasticnation.com/blog/index.php?itemid=248&catid=1 and they were well built.
But unless you are very good at boat work, I would pass.. she is pretty heavy and will require a double axle trailer with brakes.. That will blow your budget all at once.. She looks like one worth saving, but there is a lot of hidden expense in trying to revive a boat like that.. A wooden boat is even worse because of likely structural repairs that will be needed. If you have a full woodwork shop and are good at cabinet making and know someone who is good with hulls, then and only then consider it.. I agree with the other posters, meet some folks and learn through a class.. but, HEY.. if you want to invest the sweat equity and a lot more dollars than you think you will, have at it.. I don't like to sound so negative, but free is usually a very long way from sailing condition.. Advance carefully, Colin.. good luck.

ghost · Dec 14, 2010

What you are looking at is a "negative boat". That is a boat that sounds like a good deal until you start putting money into it to get it sail-able. you end up spending more money than it is worth therefore you are into negative territory.

There was a guy in our club who bought an old beat up, rotting 28 foot power boat at a great price. (so he thought) He worked on trying to fix it up to be sea worthy and after a year of time and $$$ into the boat , he had to pay someone to cut it up and haul away the remains.:cry:

Stu Jackson · Dec 14, 2010

Hi, Colin, and welcome.

The general wisdom is that a deal too good to be true usually isn't, and that's double for boats.

The only folks we know about who can make that work are folks who know a lot about boats, have had many, and can fix everything.

If you are new to sailing, yes, take lessons. Also consider the "best" basic sailboats, like the Catalina 22 or ones of that type. They're very forgiving for newcomers and many if not most of us have started in that size and then moved up.

Good luck.

HukilauMike · Dec 14, 2010

I think you are finding there is no such thing as a "free" boat. My general thought is that you will wind up paying about as much in setting up this free boat as you would for a well-equipped one you paid for in the first place.

It sounds like the sails are a close-enough fit that a sailmaker could recut/sew them to fit your boat. How much? No way to say without knowing how much work he would be doing. I would budget at least $500.

You don't have a rudder? that's a toughie. There is really not much of a market for used sailboat hull parts. Derelict sailboats aren't routinely scavanged for parts. Other than sails, winches and outboards, finding used sailboat stuff is rare. Unless you can make one yourself, you will almost certainly need a new one. Idasailor makes replacement rudders. They don't seem to have one for a Southcoast 26 (only the 22), but if you look at their prices as an indication of what a new rudder will cost, you should plan on spending at least $1000 on a new rudder. Is is just the rudder that's missing? What about the rudder post? If that's gone too, you will probably need to get one custom made, along with new packing glands, and head stock. How much? I'm only guessing here, but I'd be surprised if that stuff didn't add another $500 at least. Your new assembly will have to be connected to your steering set up. If its a wheel, you hopefully won't have to replace the steering quadrant, but I wouldn't count on it. If you need a tiller, figure another $100. Do you know how to install a new rudder/stock/steering? If not, then you are in for some serious coin. I would budget at least another $1500 for labor.

If you are comfortable with buying a used outboard, you can probably find a 9.9 on Craig's list for less than $500. A new one will cost you at least $2300.

Add it all up, and you could be spending about $5000 on your "free" boat. I did a quick search on used Southcoast 26's, and you can get one ready to sail away for less than that. Of course, if you can and like doing the work yourself, the equation changes. But if you're just looking for a way to get into sailing quickly and inexpensively, this doesn't seem to be a good option.

dscribner · Dec 14, 2010

Hi Colin,

It's exciting at a young age to find something that seems like it's a great thing, only to have old codgers like us spit on your idea. I remember what it's like. I didn't even read the previous post. I know what they're saying because it's true. This boat will cost tons of money and drag you out of sailing. My recommendation, if you'll give it consideration, by a smaller keel boat, something in the 20-22 foot range. You can find them for $1500, maybe a little more on the trailer. You'll be smiling on a broad reach in the spring rather than scraping an swearing at the bottom. Definitely, sail, just not this white albatross.

rpwillia · Dec 14, 2010

Some more good advice

If it flies, floats or fornicates rent it! It is cheaper in the long run.

OK, everyone go back to serious responses. :naughty:

higgs · Dec 14, 2010

I echo the others here. I have friends who have picked up 25 + footers. boats ready to go - add elbow grease, etc. - for under $1500. I know one guy who picked up a 22 McGregor in good shape - ready to go - for $750 and that included a trailer. Keep digging.

jibes138 · Dec 15, 2010

If you are just looking to learn to sail I'd suggest a sunfish. You can get used ones just about anywhere, great boat to learn to sail. Then move up to a 22 or 25 with a cabin. What you gain with a small boat like that is all about "feel" you feel the reaction of the boat to every little puff of air, every wave and how to read the conditions and react to them. You should be able to get a sunfish for a five hundred or s. A walker bay dinghy is another option A Laser is another good boat but more money than a sunfish.
The wooden boat picture is too small to see it very weel but if you need to replace planks or caulk the seams get ready for a bunch of work and you need to know what you are doing. If you keep finding rot as you dig into her the job just keeps getting bigger. Planks aren't too bad but replacing ribs you might need to steam them. So do you want a "project" to work on a lot or a boat to learn how to sail?

ghost · Dec 15, 2010

Just because your dad has some sailing experience and good intentions, doesn't mean he can tackle a boat refurb. I've driven thosands of miles in many cars but would never tackle a project such as an engine replacement.
You should keep looking and get a boat that is ready to go with only minor repairs.

Johan S. · Dec 15, 2010

Colon - A must to know

I have gotten plenty of free boats over the years.. I started with small 14' boats and sunfish types that needed parts that I could easily fabricate on my own. I can build rudders and daggerboards out of scrap marine plywood and oil paint for next to nothing. But, bigger boats require more substantial builds with fiberglass mat / resins and they are extremely costly

Never accept any free boat over 16' that is missing these items. ( it will cost you more in the long run )
1) NO TITLE.
2) NO SAILS.
3) NO RUDDER.

rgranger · Dec 15, 2010

Colin

This is a subject I feel I am expert at. I have bought 6 project boats over the past 10 years. Fixed them up an sold them. The boat is always free, you are buying the trailer, motor and sails. So inspect them carefully. Fiberglass and plywood are easy to repair but the trailer, motor and sails cost real money if you have to buy them new. Do you want to keep it in a slip ($) or on a trailer. Slips cost money and restrict you to a single sailing location.

If you stalk eBay between Fall and March you can find a decent boat in the 17' to 23' range for under $1000. Place your bid at the very last second ( I use a website called "Auction Sniper")
The boat should come with a trailer, sails and an outboard motor. CL is also a good place to look. In the Spring, the selection of boats declines dramatically and the cost goes up. Things stay that way until September. Then things pick up on ebay again. So you want to buy in the fall or winter.

Another thing to consider. If you are sailing in a lake, a 300# thrust trolling motor is about all you need to get a small boat out of the marina. They are a lot cheaper than an OB. If you are sailing in coastal waters you will need an OB to deal with currents.

My latest project boat was a Macgregor V222. I got it on a trailer, with 5 sails for $800. It needed work but that was fun too.

Good luck.

new sailor needing advice on boats

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.