Need some info, Im new to sailing and I need to know an easy to boat to learn on around 23". I have some sailing experience on mainly small boats such as Phantoms, and Sunfish. I have a family and I would like a small cabin. I would also like a safe sturdy boat. It must be trilerable since I will be using it in the lakes of Pa., and I have a place in Ocean City NJ so I will be using it the intercostal waters, mainly the bay. I need something to grow with, a boat that will really teach me the fundimentals of sailing and will intrduce me to sailing bigger boats. I am lookig for a used boat, and when I find the right one I then will decide if it is worth the money the seller is asking. I have seen many boats between 2500.00 and 7000.00 dollars that seem like good boats. I just want to be sure it will fulfill all my needs listed above. The keel is a big question, I see some are retractable, and some are fixed. Which one is better, and more safe? Which one is good for shallower water? I have many other questions but lets start here. I have at least 30 years experience with all types of powerboats, but this is a whole new experience to me. I want to get it right. Oh does anyone have any suggestions what is a good sailing magizine to subscribe to?
260-26 hunter/22-25 catalina
It depends how much you want to spend,an older boat might be cheaper at first but it will need work and cost more money so go for as new as possible. A fixed keel is better but you can't trailer it and you will get stuck in shallow water depending on the draft. I was sailing small boats like sunfish and hobie cats,thats what the sailing schools tell you to learn on. I have a 2001 hunter with a 3'6" draft and I love it ,me and my wife did also take sailing lesson's when I bought the boat. It sounds like you would be happy with a 22-26 catalina or hunter or mcgregger power sailer,they can all be trailered and used in shallow water. When I was looking to go bigger these are the boats I was looking at,but I did not want to do any repairing and so I got a new boat with a fixed keel and keep in a slip and sail in one area,that is the draw back of a fixed keel. nick
It depends how much you want to spend,an older boat might be cheaper at first but it will need work and cost more money so go for as new as possible. A fixed keel is better but you can't trailer it and you will get stuck in shallow water depending on the draft. I was sailing small boats like sunfish and hobie cats,thats what the sailing schools tell you to learn on. I have a 2001 hunter with a 3'6" draft and I love it ,me and my wife did also take sailing lesson's when I bought the boat. It sounds like you would be happy with a 22-26 catalina or hunter or mcgregger power sailer,they can all be trailered and used in shallow water. When I was looking to go bigger these are the boats I was looking at,but I did not want to do any repairing and so I got a new boat with a fixed keel and keep in a slip and sail in one area,that is the draw back of a fixed keel. nick
Archives
Zen, This is a very common question and there are a number of topics on this site, do a search on the archives and I think you'll find enough reading to keep you busy for a while. Based on your reading you should decide about a swing keel or fixed. If you need further information there are people on this site who can help. My first boat was a swing keel and I could go any place I wanted, 11 inches up and 4.5 ft down. That is where I learned and got hooked. I'm on my fifth boat, retired and lovin' it. I enjoy Sail and Chesapeake Bay Magazines. In the archives there is an item listing favorite books. As someone else said, read, read, read. Paul
Zen, This is a very common question and there are a number of topics on this site, do a search on the archives and I think you'll find enough reading to keep you busy for a while. Based on your reading you should decide about a swing keel or fixed. If you need further information there are people on this site who can help. My first boat was a swing keel and I could go any place I wanted, 11 inches up and 4.5 ft down. That is where I learned and got hooked. I'm on my fifth boat, retired and lovin' it. I enjoy Sail and Chesapeake Bay Magazines. In the archives there is an item listing favorite books. As someone else said, read, read, read. Paul
Get a bigger one to start with
and you will save one step in the learning process. You can rent some boats to see what you will like. It might seem expensive but so is buying, selling and fixing your own.
and you will save one step in the learning process. You can rent some boats to see what you will like. It might seem expensive but so is buying, selling and fixing your own.
One other thing
Check for sailing clubs in your area. Seattle has several. One of them is the Seattle Singles Sailing Club. You can sign up to crew with a number of skippers and all you have to do is bring food or drinks. I think it is $100 per year to join or you can pay at each meeting. Nice folks. I met my wife there.
Check for sailing clubs in your area. Seattle has several. One of them is the Seattle Singles Sailing Club. You can sign up to crew with a number of skippers and all you have to do is bring food or drinks. I think it is $100 per year to join or you can pay at each meeting. Nice folks. I met my wife there.
The boat has to suit you
I know this is always a main concern to new boat owners as to which is the best boat. There is no right answer. She has to please your senses. If you are going to be trailering then you want a lighter boat with swing keel or centerboard. The water around Ocean City has many shallow spots. If you plan to head out the Great Egg inlet then you are going to want a heavier boat with a fixed keel. Catalina and Hunter are still in business so parts are available. O'Day has been over looked by the others and I am happy with my choice. I have not had any problem finding replacement parts for her. This year i have been thing of a larger boat but I keep going back to the idea that this is really the boat for me. There is no "perfect boat" just find the compromise that suits your needs the best. Happy sailing and I know once you settle into the sailing world you will enjoy boating much more.
I know this is always a main concern to new boat owners as to which is the best boat. There is no right answer. She has to please your senses. If you are going to be trailering then you want a lighter boat with swing keel or centerboard. The water around Ocean City has many shallow spots. If you plan to head out the Great Egg inlet then you are going to want a heavier boat with a fixed keel. Catalina and Hunter are still in business so parts are available. O'Day has been over looked by the others and I am happy with my choice. I have not had any problem finding replacement parts for her. This year i have been thing of a larger boat but I keep going back to the idea that this is really the boat for me. There is no "perfect boat" just find the compromise that suits your needs the best. Happy sailing and I know once you settle into the sailing world you will enjoy boating much more.
Try a Precision 23
Try a Precision 23. They are very roomy down below for a boat that still sails nicely. They have a shoal draft keel with a centerboard so they are easy to launch & retrieve & are always self-righting (safe). They have a galley, a place for a head, table & a cooler. Their berths are long. They come with bow & stern rails and lifelines and a SS transom-mounted swim ladder. The cockpit is self-bailing & includes a very large sail locker to stbd & a fuel tank locker to stbd so you aren't tripping over a tank in the cockpit & no fumes below. The mast is fractional which means the mainsail is large & headsails are smaller for easier sail handling & the boat will sail under mainsail alone. The mast is hinged on the deck so raising it is very easy & later models include mast raising systems incorporated into the trailer for even easier one-person raising (but just grap a couple of guys & walk it up for quickness). There is a deck anchor locker forward. The boat is good looking, sails real nicely (not a dog, but fun) & affordable. Later models have catbird seats in the stern rail & aluminum opening ports with screens on the cabin sides. I think boat is somewhere around 2500 lbs, so you don't need a monster vehicle to town it.
Try a Precision 23. They are very roomy down below for a boat that still sails nicely. They have a shoal draft keel with a centerboard so they are easy to launch & retrieve & are always self-righting (safe). They have a galley, a place for a head, table & a cooler. Their berths are long. They come with bow & stern rails and lifelines and a SS transom-mounted swim ladder. The cockpit is self-bailing & includes a very large sail locker to stbd & a fuel tank locker to stbd so you aren't tripping over a tank in the cockpit & no fumes below. The mast is fractional which means the mainsail is large & headsails are smaller for easier sail handling & the boat will sail under mainsail alone. The mast is hinged on the deck so raising it is very easy & later models include mast raising systems incorporated into the trailer for even easier one-person raising (but just grap a couple of guys & walk it up for quickness). There is a deck anchor locker forward. The boat is good looking, sails real nicely (not a dog, but fun) & affordable. Later models have catbird seats in the stern rail & aluminum opening ports with screens on the cabin sides. I think boat is somewhere around 2500 lbs, so you don't need a monster vehicle to town it.
A Different Viewpoint
I would like to present a completely different viewpoint. I took lessons on a sunfish. The first boat I bought was a little 12 foot holder. Small boats teache you things about sailing that you will never learn on a big boat. If you do learn them on a big boat, it will be a very expensive lesson. I turned over the small boats so many times that I couldn't even estimate the number. I have worked my way up to a MAC Venture 23, which, by the way I would not recommend for a novice. It has a number of sailing characteristics which make it difficult to sail, unless you learn to control the sails, rudder, etc in concert. The MAC 23 takes me about three hours to take it out and put it in the water. Therefore, it stays in the water except for an annual pullout. I also have an American Fiberglass D-18. If I am going out by myself, I would rather sail this boat. It will also haul three other people comfortably. It is responsive and I can take it anywhere. It is just a fun boat to sail. I can take it out and put it in the water in about 30 minutes, by myself. I am not limited by where my boat is parked. 90% of my sailing is by myself. I have spent days trying to coerce other people to sail. I have finally just given up. When I overnight, I take the bigger boat. When my wife goes, we take the bigger boat. Don't overlook some of the smaller boats. Look realistically at what sailing you will be doing and how often. Most of the sailboats in my marina have not been moved in months. If it is not going to be moved, it would be cheaper to keep it in your driveway.
I would like to present a completely different viewpoint. I took lessons on a sunfish. The first boat I bought was a little 12 foot holder. Small boats teache you things about sailing that you will never learn on a big boat. If you do learn them on a big boat, it will be a very expensive lesson. I turned over the small boats so many times that I couldn't even estimate the number. I have worked my way up to a MAC Venture 23, which, by the way I would not recommend for a novice. It has a number of sailing characteristics which make it difficult to sail, unless you learn to control the sails, rudder, etc in concert. The MAC 23 takes me about three hours to take it out and put it in the water. Therefore, it stays in the water except for an annual pullout. I also have an American Fiberglass D-18. If I am going out by myself, I would rather sail this boat. It will also haul three other people comfortably. It is responsive and I can take it anywhere. It is just a fun boat to sail. I can take it out and put it in the water in about 30 minutes, by myself. I am not limited by where my boat is parked. 90% of my sailing is by myself. I have spent days trying to coerce other people to sail. I have finally just given up. When I overnight, I take the bigger boat. When my wife goes, we take the bigger boat. Don't overlook some of the smaller boats. Look realistically at what sailing you will be doing and how often. Most of the sailboats in my marina have not been moved in months. If it is not going to be moved, it would be cheaper to keep it in your driveway.
Ocean City Boat
Zen: My homeport is Ocean City, New Jersey and I sail my 2002 Hunter 386 out of Seaview Harbor. I started sailing around 15 yrs ago . I had never sailed before and I purchased a O'day Mariner with a centerboard. It drafts 10" with the board up & 4'-10" with the board down. Around Ocean City in the back bay it was perfect. The tides make deep water sailing very difficult in this area, but the boat was the answer. I payed $1500. for the boat and put another $1500. to restore it. I bought all of the replacement parts from Stuart Marine . This company still makes the 19 ft Mariner but it sells new around $19,000. Hunter makes a great boat as does Catalina. The good news is that if you did learn the basics with the smaller craft that you mentioned, sailing a bigger boat is more forgiving. Since I live down the shore all year if you need to talk, let me know I will show you my boat and help you with any information you need.
Zen: My homeport is Ocean City, New Jersey and I sail my 2002 Hunter 386 out of Seaview Harbor. I started sailing around 15 yrs ago . I had never sailed before and I purchased a O'day Mariner with a centerboard. It drafts 10" with the board up & 4'-10" with the board down. Around Ocean City in the back bay it was perfect. The tides make deep water sailing very difficult in this area, but the boat was the answer. I payed $1500. for the boat and put another $1500. to restore it. I bought all of the replacement parts from Stuart Marine . This company still makes the 19 ft Mariner but it sells new around $19,000. Hunter makes a great boat as does Catalina. The good news is that if you did learn the basics with the smaller craft that you mentioned, sailing a bigger boat is more forgiving. Since I live down the shore all year if you need to talk, let me know I will show you my boat and help you with any information you need.
Oday 23
I would go with an Oday 23 if you can find one. They are quite sturdy and age very well. I had a '77 until two years ago and it was fine structurally. It has the best bigger boat "feel" of all the 22-23 footers. Sails very well and has a keel centerboard which allows you to go into two feet of water when the board is up. The short keel itself gives much better stability than the typical retractable centerboard like the Catalina 22 has. I also had a Cat 22 years ago, and it was not as stable and did not sail as well. Also the Oday 23 is fast...almost six knots top speed. It's really a fine boat and sails better than the Oday 25 or 26. Good luck.
I would go with an Oday 23 if you can find one. They are quite sturdy and age very well. I had a '77 until two years ago and it was fine structurally. It has the best bigger boat "feel" of all the 22-23 footers. Sails very well and has a keel centerboard which allows you to go into two feet of water when the board is up. The short keel itself gives much better stability than the typical retractable centerboard like the Catalina 22 has. I also had a Cat 22 years ago, and it was not as stable and did not sail as well. Also the Oday 23 is fast...almost six knots top speed. It's really a fine boat and sails better than the Oday 25 or 26. Good luck.
Sandpiper 565
I went through this process last spring. I was limited a bit because my Chrysler mini-van is only rated for 2000 lb towing. My choice...a 1986 Sandpiper 565 which are still plentiful in Canada and parts of northern US. price $ 5K CDN ($ 4k US)
I went through this process last spring. I was limited a bit because my Chrysler mini-van is only rated for 2000 lb towing. My choice...a 1986 Sandpiper 565 which are still plentiful in Canada and parts of northern US. price $ 5K CDN ($ 4k US)
definately O'Day 23
I would definately agree and say an O'Day 23. That was my first "big sailboat". It is great to learn and get your feel for the boat. It is also very stable and forgiving for first timers but yet once you get used to the boat it does seem to move along pretty fast. The cabin space for a 23 is really impressive. Mine's a 1981 and is forsail as I just bought a Catalin 30. You can e-mail me Jayare627@hotmail.com.
I would definately agree and say an O'Day 23. That was my first "big sailboat". It is great to learn and get your feel for the boat. It is also very stable and forgiving for first timers but yet once you get used to the boat it does seem to move along pretty fast. The cabin space for a 23 is really impressive. Mine's a 1981 and is forsail as I just bought a Catalin 30. You can e-mail me Jayare627@hotmail.com.
Hunter 22
I have just spent my first cruising season on a Hunter 22. I am familiar with the Catalina 22, the Oday 23, and the Paceship 23. The hunter has a lot more room and it is much bigger. My wife and I love the boat and it is very comfortable to sail and cruise. Check out the specs on the Hunterowners.com web page....it is a great boat! Good Luck and E-mail me if you have any questions about the boat. Oh, you can find them for a pretty reasonable price too!
I have just spent my first cruising season on a Hunter 22. I am familiar with the Catalina 22, the Oday 23, and the Paceship 23. The hunter has a lot more room and it is much bigger. My wife and I love the boat and it is very comfortable to sail and cruise. Check out the specs on the Hunterowners.com web page....it is a great boat! Good Luck and E-mail me if you have any questions about the boat. Oh, you can find them for a pretty reasonable price too!
Further Information on Hunter 22
My boat, the Hunter 22, is a swing keel and it drafts around 3 feet. I can trailer the boat and there are several advantages to that. The one thing that you have to figure out is what are you going to use the boat for? Are you going to want to trailer it or keep it in a slip. If you keep it in a slip a keel would be better because you can point higher and they are generally a little more stable. If you want to get into skinny water and maybe trailer, go for a centerboard. The key is to figure out what you are going to do with the boat and find a boat that fits what you want to do! Good Luck and feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.
My boat, the Hunter 22, is a swing keel and it drafts around 3 feet. I can trailer the boat and there are several advantages to that. The one thing that you have to figure out is what are you going to use the boat for? Are you going to want to trailer it or keep it in a slip. If you keep it in a slip a keel would be better because you can point higher and they are generally a little more stable. If you want to get into skinny water and maybe trailer, go for a centerboard. The key is to figure out what you are going to do with the boat and find a boat that fits what you want to do! Good Luck and feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.
22/25 Catalina
You cannot beat either the 22' or 25' Catalina. Well made, fast, safe, reliable, lots built (parts are available) and excellent forums, especially the C25: http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/
You cannot beat either the 22' or 25' Catalina. Well made, fast, safe, reliable, lots built (parts are available) and excellent forums, especially the C25: http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/
Catalina 22
Hello, In June of '03 my wife talked me into the idea of a sailboat. We have 3 kids, so we wanted something with a small cabin (and porta potty) so the kids could get of the sun, trailerable, affordable, easy to sail, safe for use in the Long Island sound, affordable, etc. After doing my homework (with a lot of help on this site and on trailersailer.com http://www.trailersailors.com) I decided on a Catlina 22. The C22 (lots of info at catalina22.org) meets all your requirements - trailerable (2.5' draft with keep up, 5' with keel down), cabin, sturdy, easy to learn on, etc. You can find nice boats for less than 5K. I bought my boat, a 1981, for $4500. It was in sail-away condition. Catalina is still in business and there is great aftermarket support for the boat from catalina direct. And, when you find out that you love sailing and want a bigger boat, it will be easy to sell the C22 and buy something larger. In all reality, you can't go wrong with a C22, Hunter 22, or Oday 22. For a good magazine, check out Good Old Boat. They recently reviewed a number of small trailerable boats. Good luck! Barry
Hello, In June of '03 my wife talked me into the idea of a sailboat. We have 3 kids, so we wanted something with a small cabin (and porta potty) so the kids could get of the sun, trailerable, affordable, easy to sail, safe for use in the Long Island sound, affordable, etc. After doing my homework (with a lot of help on this site and on trailersailer.com http://www.trailersailors.com) I decided on a Catlina 22. The C22 (lots of info at catalina22.org) meets all your requirements - trailerable (2.5' draft with keep up, 5' with keel down), cabin, sturdy, easy to learn on, etc. You can find nice boats for less than 5K. I bought my boat, a 1981, for $4500. It was in sail-away condition. Catalina is still in business and there is great aftermarket support for the boat from catalina direct. And, when you find out that you love sailing and want a bigger boat, it will be easy to sell the C22 and buy something larger. In all reality, you can't go wrong with a C22, Hunter 22, or Oday 22. For a good magazine, check out Good Old Boat. They recently reviewed a number of small trailerable boats. Good luck! Barry