I have found a new love in sailing. My father used to take me as a kid and now I would like to get back into it. I am just back from Fla. wher I did a little sailing with my girlfriend ( it was a little dingy, the boat not my girlfriend)and it just triggered something! I know that I need to do do a lot of research and reading but I do not know where to begin. Here are my questions...Where do I need to start? I think that I would like to get an old "fix er' upper" and do that myself. Is that crazy? Any advice would be appritiated. Thank you, Joshua
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Figure out your budget and sailing grounds.
Joshua: I would figure out what I want to spend and where you plan on sailing. If you are sailing on a land locked lake you are going to have different requirements than someone that may be sailing in the ocean and large bays. If you are land locked you will need to know what type of equipment there is available to handle your boat unless you get a trailerable boat. I am not much of a believer in a real "fixer upper". These boats too often become a fixer upper for the NEXT owner. I would get a nice boat in realitively good condition and ready to sail. There is always things that need to be done to a boat so you may as well get one that is ready to sail and then you can just make yourself a project list and you can work on between sails. Get your targets setup and start looking.
Joshua: I would figure out what I want to spend and where you plan on sailing. If you are sailing on a land locked lake you are going to have different requirements than someone that may be sailing in the ocean and large bays. If you are land locked you will need to know what type of equipment there is available to handle your boat unless you get a trailerable boat. I am not much of a believer in a real "fixer upper". These boats too often become a fixer upper for the NEXT owner. I would get a nice boat in realitively good condition and ready to sail. There is always things that need to be done to a boat so you may as well get one that is ready to sail and then you can just make yourself a project list and you can work on between sails. Get your targets setup and start looking.
Hi Joshua
Resist the urge to buy a fixer-upper! In my humble opinion, you need to be on the water as quickly and as much as you possibly can. That requires functioning, reliable equipment. You didn't say how much you plan to spend or where you plan to sail, but for a first boat I'd place a higher priority on stability (how forgiving is it), ease of sailing, present condition, comfort and low maintenance rather than just price. There are many inexpensive boats out there that fit the bill. Boat Trader (www.traderonline.com) has thousands of boats listed and you can search by geographic area, size and price. My suggestion would be a small, COMFORTABLE daysailer between 14 ft and 20 ft with a retractable keel. This includes boats like the Phantom 14, Capri 14, Capri 16, ComPac 16, Precision 16, West Wight Potter, Rhodes 19, Flying Scot and even the Catalina 22, and I'm sure there are plenty of other designs as well. Sunfish and catamarans are fun, but I wouldn't want to be on one all day, and cats can be a handful for the inexperienced sailor. Good luck! Peter H23 "Raven"
Resist the urge to buy a fixer-upper! In my humble opinion, you need to be on the water as quickly and as much as you possibly can. That requires functioning, reliable equipment. You didn't say how much you plan to spend or where you plan to sail, but for a first boat I'd place a higher priority on stability (how forgiving is it), ease of sailing, present condition, comfort and low maintenance rather than just price. There are many inexpensive boats out there that fit the bill. Boat Trader (www.traderonline.com) has thousands of boats listed and you can search by geographic area, size and price. My suggestion would be a small, COMFORTABLE daysailer between 14 ft and 20 ft with a retractable keel. This includes boats like the Phantom 14, Capri 14, Capri 16, ComPac 16, Precision 16, West Wight Potter, Rhodes 19, Flying Scot and even the Catalina 22, and I'm sure there are plenty of other designs as well. Sunfish and catamarans are fun, but I wouldn't want to be on one all day, and cats can be a handful for the inexperienced sailor. Good luck! Peter H23 "Raven"
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LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners.com
OPB
I would highly recommend sailing on Other People's Boats for awhile before investing in one yourself. This gives you a feel for what you want (and don't want) in your boat PLUS you learn a heckuvalot! And I'd have to agree with Steve & Peter - don't focus on a fixer upper as such. Every boat is a fixer upper to some degree but you don't want to spend a year fixing a boat & not sailing. You can find decent boats for really good prices if you keep an eye out and aren't in a hurry (sailing OPB will help keep you from chomping at the bit). LaDonna
I would highly recommend sailing on Other People's Boats for awhile before investing in one yourself. This gives you a feel for what you want (and don't want) in your boat PLUS you learn a heckuvalot! And I'd have to agree with Steve & Peter - don't focus on a fixer upper as such. Every boat is a fixer upper to some degree but you don't want to spend a year fixing a boat & not sailing. You can find decent boats for really good prices if you keep an eye out and aren't in a hurry (sailing OPB will help keep you from chomping at the bit). LaDonna
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Charlie T
Rent first, then buy?
Hi Joshua. I'm new at sailing also. I had a small lake boat as a teenager, but now at 53 I'am looking at a significant purchase. I'll be sailing a large bay and the Jersey shore. This site has given me a lot of good info. I'm signed up for sailing lessons, and the school has rentals (25 footers @ $75/half day). I'll do that to see if my wife has as much interest as I do. The other consideration I have is the option of solo sailing, which is what I may be doing often. The kind folks at this site have talked me out of a fixer-upper. Too old for that,and my principal residence is inland. Good Luck. May fair winds be with you.
Hi Joshua. I'm new at sailing also. I had a small lake boat as a teenager, but now at 53 I'am looking at a significant purchase. I'll be sailing a large bay and the Jersey shore. This site has given me a lot of good info. I'm signed up for sailing lessons, and the school has rentals (25 footers @ $75/half day). I'll do that to see if my wife has as much interest as I do. The other consideration I have is the option of solo sailing, which is what I may be doing often. The kind folks at this site have talked me out of a fixer-upper. Too old for that,and my principal residence is inland. Good Luck. May fair winds be with you.
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Jeff Wingo
Don't forget to rent, too!
You could rent a few different boats while at the beach to help you make your decision. Get something simple for your first boat. Perhaps something that is cartop-able like a Sunfish or an Escape. Look at the Hunter 90, 140, or 146. I have a 170 and love it. Catalina makes a great boat, too. Forget the fixer-upper because there can be many hidden problems in an older boat. Have fun!!!
You could rent a few different boats while at the beach to help you make your decision. Get something simple for your first boat. Perhaps something that is cartop-able like a Sunfish or an Escape. Look at the Hunter 90, 140, or 146. I have a 170 and love it. Catalina makes a great boat, too. Forget the fixer-upper because there can be many hidden problems in an older boat. Have fun!!!
Rentals are a good idea, but be careful
Not all rental boats are maintained as well as they should be. This is probably because they are constantly in use, tend to be abused by renters and have limited opportunities for thorough maintenance. I've rented boats in all kinds of places and during the pre-departure check found problems ranging from a frayed halyard on a Sunfish to a leaking inflatable tender on a 40 ft. bareboat. They are a minor annoyance at the dock, but on the water they could turn into something much more serious. Try to get an experienced sailor to go out with you for the first few trips. Good luck! Peter H23 "Raven"
Not all rental boats are maintained as well as they should be. This is probably because they are constantly in use, tend to be abused by renters and have limited opportunities for thorough maintenance. I've rented boats in all kinds of places and during the pre-departure check found problems ranging from a frayed halyard on a Sunfish to a leaking inflatable tender on a 40 ft. bareboat. They are a minor annoyance at the dock, but on the water they could turn into something much more serious. Try to get an experienced sailor to go out with you for the first few trips. Good luck! Peter H23 "Raven"
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Kevin
fixer "uppas"
Josh, Great advice from the previous boat owners. I've been working on an 23'O'day Tempest for 2 years now. This will be my second season sailing her. When I bought her, (Sneakin' Sally) she had sat in a yard for 2 years, unattended. Last year I gutted the cabin, and replaced the bulkhead which was rotted. Replaced a couple of blocks and sailed from june until october. My last journey, my mainsheet (line) broke. This year,I've done a ton of fairing work on the bulkhead and will be re-installing the door. I'm also giving the decks a quick paint job to look neat (next year I'll be working on some spongy spots) As for the hull, it's getting re-painted from the deck all the way down. I've also had to replace all of my lines and a few pieces of hardware, however, I'll be sailing in a week or so. If you buy a fixer upper, expect a lot of this to happen to you. I love the fact that I'm re-building this boat. I'm learning a ton about my boat and know it like the back of my hand b/c of doing this. My biggest piece of advice would be to bring an experienced sailor w/ you when looking at boats, they'll look for problems that you had no idea even existed. Also, keep in mind that you either spend your time fixing the boat or sailing the boat. You'll will have to accept that you can't fix everything that you want to fix if you want to sail. I recommend fixing what needs to be fixed to make the boat seaworthy and then go from there. There are also some tasks that can be accomplished on a mooring or on a dock that don't need to be done when drydocked. Keep a great attidtude and give yourself a timeline of 3-5 years to restore. Remember, this is an investment as much an activity to pass time. You'll be spending time and money on rebuliding a boat. THis is time and $$ that could be spent elsewhere. I love my choice. I've learned a tremendous amount about sailing, boat engineering and building. I have also met many, many great people at the boatyard that have helped me along the way in rebuilding this classic. good luck w/ your decision. hope this helps. oh, one last piece. If you have a significant other, keep in mind how much time,energy and money that they will want to place in this as well. Unless they are helping, you will be spending time (a lot of time) away from them. could become stressful
Josh, Great advice from the previous boat owners. I've been working on an 23'O'day Tempest for 2 years now. This will be my second season sailing her. When I bought her, (Sneakin' Sally) she had sat in a yard for 2 years, unattended. Last year I gutted the cabin, and replaced the bulkhead which was rotted. Replaced a couple of blocks and sailed from june until october. My last journey, my mainsheet (line) broke. This year,I've done a ton of fairing work on the bulkhead and will be re-installing the door. I'm also giving the decks a quick paint job to look neat (next year I'll be working on some spongy spots) As for the hull, it's getting re-painted from the deck all the way down. I've also had to replace all of my lines and a few pieces of hardware, however, I'll be sailing in a week or so. If you buy a fixer upper, expect a lot of this to happen to you. I love the fact that I'm re-building this boat. I'm learning a ton about my boat and know it like the back of my hand b/c of doing this. My biggest piece of advice would be to bring an experienced sailor w/ you when looking at boats, they'll look for problems that you had no idea even existed. Also, keep in mind that you either spend your time fixing the boat or sailing the boat. You'll will have to accept that you can't fix everything that you want to fix if you want to sail. I recommend fixing what needs to be fixed to make the boat seaworthy and then go from there. There are also some tasks that can be accomplished on a mooring or on a dock that don't need to be done when drydocked. Keep a great attidtude and give yourself a timeline of 3-5 years to restore. Remember, this is an investment as much an activity to pass time. You'll be spending time and money on rebuliding a boat. THis is time and $$ that could be spent elsewhere. I love my choice. I've learned a tremendous amount about sailing, boat engineering and building. I have also met many, many great people at the boatyard that have helped me along the way in rebuilding this classic. good luck w/ your decision. hope this helps. oh, one last piece. If you have a significant other, keep in mind how much time,energy and money that they will want to place in this as well. Unless they are helping, you will be spending time (a lot of time) away from them. could become stressful
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David Foster
Smaller, good condition, sail now
And I would recommend a boat with a daggerboard so you can learn the wind, the water, the sails and the hull without any ballest to slow things down. You will learn more in 2 hours on a quick, light planing hull than in 2 days on a ballasted keel boat. And I still love to get back into a Sunfish, for a few days, although Joanne and I love our '77 h27 for cruising. By the way, we also loved sailing Rhodes 19's at Naval OCS on Narragensett Bay many years ago. But I would still go light and quick for learning, especially on inland lakes. (I learned to sail on a 12 foot Moth on a newly dammed, 1 mile long Lake Pierce in northern Illinois.) David Lady Lillie
And I would recommend a boat with a daggerboard so you can learn the wind, the water, the sails and the hull without any ballest to slow things down. You will learn more in 2 hours on a quick, light planing hull than in 2 days on a ballasted keel boat. And I still love to get back into a Sunfish, for a few days, although Joanne and I love our '77 h27 for cruising. By the way, we also loved sailing Rhodes 19's at Naval OCS on Narragensett Bay many years ago. But I would still go light and quick for learning, especially on inland lakes. (I learned to sail on a 12 foot Moth on a newly dammed, 1 mile long Lake Pierce in northern Illinois.) David Lady Lillie
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Ken Cobb
girls like keels
The decision to have a keel or a dagger board is a decision about philosophy. A little boat with a dagger board is fine for a sporting sail if you don't mind getting wet or even capsized (depending on the boat). However, if you want to be able to have guests on board and to have a margin of safety if the wind comes up, then a boat with a cabin and keel is going to be a lot more comfortable. It also will be more expensive. In my case I split the difference on my first boat by getting an O'Day daysailer. It had a dagger board and was easily trailered, but it also seated four comfortably, had a high boom (no need to duck on turns), and had a storage cuddy for coolers.
The decision to have a keel or a dagger board is a decision about philosophy. A little boat with a dagger board is fine for a sporting sail if you don't mind getting wet or even capsized (depending on the boat). However, if you want to be able to have guests on board and to have a margin of safety if the wind comes up, then a boat with a cabin and keel is going to be a lot more comfortable. It also will be more expensive. In my case I split the difference on my first boat by getting an O'Day daysailer. It had a dagger board and was easily trailered, but it also seated four comfortably, had a high boom (no need to duck on turns), and had a storage cuddy for coolers.
Ken is on the mark!
Josh: Ken makes an excellent point. If you have a lady friend/wife/significant other, you can scare the hell out of them (especially when you are learning). A keel boat is with a short stick (mast) is much more forgiving. If you are stuck on a trailor sailor, then you may be limited but be aware. Scare them once, scare them twice and you can sail alone for the rest of the relationship. If you don't believe Ken or me, then ask others that have boats without a sailing fembot!
Josh: Ken makes an excellent point. If you have a lady friend/wife/significant other, you can scare the hell out of them (especially when you are learning). A keel boat is with a short stick (mast) is much more forgiving. If you are stuck on a trailor sailor, then you may be limited but be aware. Scare them once, scare them twice and you can sail alone for the rest of the relationship. If you don't believe Ken or me, then ask others that have boats without a sailing fembot!
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Ray Bowles
Joshua, You already probably have some idea
of the size boat you want and an idea of how much you can spend. Now go to all the marinas, public docks and launch ramps in your area and look at all the boats there. There will almost surly be a boat simular to what you want. Talk to any sailers you find about their boat. Sailers will always talk about their boat. Ask what they think about boat sizes to learn on and about the ones you are interested in. If their boat is the same as one you are thinking about I would certainly bet that they will ask you aboard for a sail. Look at the response to your post. When anyone asks about learning to sail everyone jumps out of their computer to help and encourage you to try this sport. Hell, you'll get 5 times more responses than anyone else. Boat owners on your local docks will be no different. The first thing you'll hear is "Come aboard". Enjoy your entry into this sport. Ray S/V Speedy
of the size boat you want and an idea of how much you can spend. Now go to all the marinas, public docks and launch ramps in your area and look at all the boats there. There will almost surly be a boat simular to what you want. Talk to any sailers you find about their boat. Sailers will always talk about their boat. Ask what they think about boat sizes to learn on and about the ones you are interested in. If their boat is the same as one you are thinking about I would certainly bet that they will ask you aboard for a sail. Look at the response to your post. When anyone asks about learning to sail everyone jumps out of their computer to help and encourage you to try this sport. Hell, you'll get 5 times more responses than anyone else. Boat owners on your local docks will be no different. The first thing you'll hear is "Come aboard". Enjoy your entry into this sport. Ray S/V Speedy
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David Foster
Screening the lady
One of my first dates with Joanne was out on my Moth. A gust got us, and when it was clear we were going over, I rolled out backwards so I could get on the daggerboard, and keep the open hull from flooding. Unfortunately, I forgot to mention this tactic to Joanne. As she tells the story, the boat tipped, I simply disappeared, and the next thing she knew, she was spread-eagled face down on the main, wondering why she was dating such a jerk who would abandon her like that... I never thought about it like this, but maybe this was a great way to ensure that my partner for life, and Admiral of the Lady Lillie really does love sailing. I do agree that if you already have a partner, a keel boat like the Rhodes 19 could well be the answer. I understand that the new Hunter 17 has great form stability, though. (Of course this means that if it ever does go over, it is very hard to get up.) David
One of my first dates with Joanne was out on my Moth. A gust got us, and when it was clear we were going over, I rolled out backwards so I could get on the daggerboard, and keep the open hull from flooding. Unfortunately, I forgot to mention this tactic to Joanne. As she tells the story, the boat tipped, I simply disappeared, and the next thing she knew, she was spread-eagled face down on the main, wondering why she was dating such a jerk who would abandon her like that... I never thought about it like this, but maybe this was a great way to ensure that my partner for life, and Admiral of the Lady Lillie really does love sailing. I do agree that if you already have a partner, a keel boat like the Rhodes 19 could well be the answer. I understand that the new Hunter 17 has great form stability, though. (Of course this means that if it ever does go over, it is very hard to get up.) David
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Mark
still more advice
Our first boat was a 26'Balboa, swing keel. Hard to get the mast up. Next boat, 22 oday. We like it, but with that draft, and shallow launches around here, not as many opportunities. I sometimes wish I had gotten the Potter 19, or perhaps the 15, because there's room for a porta-potti (always a good idea to have one-especially for your date), and only needs a foot of water to float. And cheap. I saw a 19Potter at Hooper's Yachts in Afton yesterday for less than $5000. Something to think about. btw, a weekend on a small boat with an potential mate is worth about 5yrs. experience with same. It can bring out the best and worst of each of you, and see how adversity is dealt with.
Our first boat was a 26'Balboa, swing keel. Hard to get the mast up. Next boat, 22 oday. We like it, but with that draft, and shallow launches around here, not as many opportunities. I sometimes wish I had gotten the Potter 19, or perhaps the 15, because there's room for a porta-potti (always a good idea to have one-especially for your date), and only needs a foot of water to float. And cheap. I saw a 19Potter at Hooper's Yachts in Afton yesterday for less than $5000. Something to think about. btw, a weekend on a small boat with an potential mate is worth about 5yrs. experience with same. It can bring out the best and worst of each of you, and see how adversity is dealt with.
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Mark
ps
If you decide on a fixer-upper, the bigger they are, the more complicated and expensive to fix. Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do.
If you decide on a fixer-upper, the bigger they are, the more complicated and expensive to fix. Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do.
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Marty Albright
THE BIGGEST YOU CAN AFFORD
(NOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND!) I'VE HAD A HUNTER 240 FOR 6 MTHS NOW AND SOMETIMES THINK I WOULD LIKE MORE ROOM. FROM MY LIMITED EXPERIENCE, THE LARGER BOATS ARE EASIER TO SAIL AND MORE STABLE THAN SMALLER. YOU WILL PROBABLY WANT TO TAKE GUESTS AT TIMES AND WILL WANT A HEAD, STORAGE, BERTH AND MAYBE A STOVE. ALSO, CONSIDER IF YOU HAVE TO TRAILER OR CAN LEAVE IT IN THE WATER. IF YOU HAVE-HEAD,STOVE AND CAN SLEEP ON YOUR BOAT, THE IRS CONSIDERS IT A SECOND HOME WHICH CAN HELP GREATLY WITH YOUR TAXES. SEE-MORE FOR LESS. GOOD SAILING AND MAY THE WIND FAVOR YOUR COARSE.
(NOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND!) I'VE HAD A HUNTER 240 FOR 6 MTHS NOW AND SOMETIMES THINK I WOULD LIKE MORE ROOM. FROM MY LIMITED EXPERIENCE, THE LARGER BOATS ARE EASIER TO SAIL AND MORE STABLE THAN SMALLER. YOU WILL PROBABLY WANT TO TAKE GUESTS AT TIMES AND WILL WANT A HEAD, STORAGE, BERTH AND MAYBE A STOVE. ALSO, CONSIDER IF YOU HAVE TO TRAILER OR CAN LEAVE IT IN THE WATER. IF YOU HAVE-HEAD,STOVE AND CAN SLEEP ON YOUR BOAT, THE IRS CONSIDERS IT A SECOND HOME WHICH CAN HELP GREATLY WITH YOUR TAXES. SEE-MORE FOR LESS. GOOD SAILING AND MAY THE WIND FAVOR YOUR COARSE.
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