New Safer Boat Stove

[RyanHelfrich17]

I am a student at Lehigh University currently working on developing a new type of boat stove that would be considerably safer than current stoves on the market. The fuel would also be cheaper.
The new stove is wax powered. It uses a new patented technology that allows wax to be burnt very efficiently and allows for temperatures and heat output at par with or better than alcohol.

Because it requires this new technology for the wax to burn, it makes it near impossible for accidental fires as the wax must be in the stove for it to light and if it spills it will not stay lit.

Wax is also very easy to store and cannot be spilled nor is it affected by water or moisture etc.

Here is a link to a survey that I'd like you to take if you have time.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NFTTVJ8

If you can't take the survey please respond with answers to a few questions.
1. Do you currently own a stove?
2. Is safety an issue for you when it comes to stoves?
3. What type of boat and size do you have?
4. Does this new-wax powered stove interest you?

Thanks for your time. It is really appreciated.
-Ryan Helfrich

 

[Captpedro]

How do I get one as a tester ? I live aboard in Ny , and currenly operate on a trusty Homestrand , which I suppose , on land , would technically be considerd an antique . I rather like the alcohol stove , but your stove sparks a little curiosity

 

[RyanHelfrich17]

Captpedro, the technology is currently being used for camping stoves and so the current prototype we have is pretty small. We are in the process of developing a scaled-up prototype specifically for boats but don't have any in production currently. If you are interested though please visit www.gattgen.com for some info and videos.
Any feedback you have would be great!

 

[Don12364]

How can you patent the candle?

 

[RyanHelfrich17]

It is not a candle...

How can you patent the candle?[/QUOTE
A candle is a block of wax with a wick in it. Candles burn wax very inefficiently and are incapable of producing the heat output necessary for use in cooking applications. A normal candle, or group of candles, could at most heat food up. The technology used in this stove is much more complex than that of a candle and is capable of burning wax much more efficiently and also allows you to control (to an extent) the characteristics of the flame by simple mechanical adjustments.
Please look at www.gattgen.com for more information but let me be clear in saying that this is in no way a candle.

 

[Sanfelice]

Limited survey

I took the survey which IMHO is so limited it is not very useful. For instance, there is more than one type of alcohol stove. There are pressurized ones and non pressurized ones. The Origo stoves are not pressurized and use canisters to hold the alcohol. Check their website. One of the biggest issues is availability of fuel. CNG is safer than propane but the fuel is difficult to obtain and many owners have changed out their stoves from CNG to propane. I wish you luck in your venture. Hopefully, you can develop a safe, easily obtainable fuel, high heat stove.

 

[RyanHelfrich17]

I took the survey which IMHO is so limited it is not very useful. For instance, there is more than one type of alcohol stove. There are pressurized ones and non pressurized ones. The Origo stoves are not pressurized and use canisters to hold the alcohol. Check their website. One of the biggest issues is availability of fuel. CNG is safer than propane but the fuel is difficult to obtain and many owners have changed out their stoves from CNG to propane. I wish you luck in your venture. Hopefully, you can develop a safe, easily obtainable fuel, high heat stove.

Thanks a lot for the input. I have played with one of the Origo stoves and am aware that there are pressurized and unpressurized alcohol stoves. I was under the impression though that most people use un-pressurized however if this is not the case I will edit the survey for sure.
Again, thanks for taking the survey and for your feedback.

 

[Benny17441]

I'll take your survey.

1) Yes I have a stove aboard.

2) Yes safety is always a concern when cooking aboard.

3) Hunter Sailboat 32'

4) I'm curious but would not say interested as I'm not about to replace a perfectly working stove and all the propane system hardware.

 

[DeniseO30]

It seems your prototype is quite small and maybe only practical for heating a drinking cup size vessel. I don't see it as practical on a boat. Not a candle but small as one for sure, smaller then a Bunsen burner even.

I'm guessing preheating is needed to liquify the wax which is pressurized enough by the same heat to feed a tube or generator into a super-heating type of burner much like the kero and diesel heaters have...The wax supply and burner would need to be proportionally larger to cook a meal, boil 2 qts. of water, or fry up breakfast.

Roughly, petroleum fuels burn about 140,000 btuh a gallon. Most stove size burners need to produce about 10 - 15,000 btuh for cooking meals and pots of liquid, Your saying that wax is 18,000 btu per lb. the actual math escapes me, but it seems wax is not much lighter then liquid fuels in the required amounts.


"patented technology that allows wax to be burnt very efficiently and allows for temperatures and heat output at par with or better than alcohol. Because it requires this new technology for the wax to burn, " NEW TECHNOLOGY? Hmmm how is #6 fuel oil burned?

 

[Ross]

I took the survey and found myself thinkng of the biased political surveys that I receive in the mail. The survey asks "do I consider an alcohol stove more or less safe than all others. But my propane stove is perfectly safe, if the flame fails the fuel is shut off. My Grandmother had a superb kerosine stove that was the equal of any propane stove for someone that knew how to use it. I like to think that anyone that can sail a boat can handle a cook stove if he/she applies him/herself.

 

[Bill Roosa]

My CNG stove is very safe. Same technology as used in ALL house gas furnaces and hot water heaters.
Are you really suggesting that we ditch our systems for a new, not usable for anything else and takes up more precious storage space, fuel?
and how expensive is this fuel? Can I buy it at a marina or gas station?
Clearly there are some issues to work through. Just because it works and is new is not sufficient reason to adopt it.

 

[Ross S]

I applaud entrepenuership and I wish you well in your endeavour and future development of this product.

I am not familiar with the technology proposed. However, in general, burning wax can be sooty. Additionally vaporized wax can condense out of the air and form a thin coating on surfaces. Both of these situations would be unsuitable for use on..or more specifically...in a boat.

Also, your own website indicates that the stove is intended only for outdoor use. This would seem to preclude the possibility of installing it in a galley.

The BTU per pound potential of the wax are on par with propane/kerosene and generally greater than alcohol. Historically it's been difficult to burn the wax efficiently to obtain a useable amount of heat. What it more useful, and not reported, is the BTUs per hour that this device is generating.

 

[DeniseO30]

reading this kinda reminds me of other things tried and found impractical. Remember the myth busters episode where they tried the gunpowder engine? I'm still wondering when or if the sterling engine will ever be used for something other then display.

 

[Alex Dare]

Ryan,
Looks like you may have a nice little solid fuel camp stove on your hands. I really like that the fuel can't spill and probably wont go bad or evaporate when stored. Could be a nice alternative to Sterno for outdoor cooking. I used to do quite a bit of backpacking and used just about every stove on the market.
Not sure how your stove is started, but personally I really disliked any stove that required a separate pre-heating step. Next in line of dislikes was low heat output. I want a my hot cup of tea or coffee and I want it now even if it means more weight and space. (That's probably why the Jetboil is so popular) Not sure if either one of these issues applies to your stove, just trying to provide some feedback.
Not sure how your stove would scale up or be received for cruising boat use. Keep in mind that most marine/RV units are functionally at least, scaled down home stoves rather than scaled up camp stoves. One thing I would recommend would be to spend a little time and get some additional content up on your web site. Best of Luck!

 

[MrBill_FLL]

how long does it take to boil a pint of water?

(can it even boil water?) those would be my stove tests... otherwise its a heater.

 

[RyanHelfrich17]

Thanks for the responses everyone however some people seem to have some misunderstandings about my idea.
1) There is a patent for the process used to burn the wax. It is not the same as burning a candle or fuel oil.

2) The process being used allows for the wax to be burned more efficiently with much greater heat output and it is capable of boiling water and actually cooking things.

3) The stove shown on the website is a camping stove, it is small because it is made for backpackers. We are taking the technology being used in that camping stove and scaling it up to be large enough for a boat stove so it will be much larger and look different.

4) We are not taking just taking a camping stove and scaling it to a boating stove. We are taking a technology that is capable of efficiently using wax as a fuel and applying it to both a camping stove and a boat stove.

5) We completely understand that people have current stoves and setups and do not want to just purchase a new type of stove because it works...We see safety as being the main advantage of the stove and ease of storage and hope that if it were to catch on the fuel would become readily available at marinas however because none of these stoves currently exist, obviously nobody sells the fuel.
The purpose of this survey is to attempt to establish whether the benefits of the stove are enough to capture a large enough market size to make the venture economical.

6) I fully realize that most every stove currently available is safe if used correctly and that if you are capable of sailing you are capable of operating these stoves safely. However accidents do occur and so I personally see a benefit to having essentially a fool-proof stove that is near impossible to have an accident with. When a boat is such a huge investment wouldn't it be a shame to have it ruined by a stove, which in comparison is such a small investment? To me that makes perfect sense but again the goal of this post and survey is to establish whether or not the market actually feels that way.

Again thanks for your responses and I hope this clears up some misunderstandings.

-Ryan

 

[RyanHelfrich17]

"patented technology that allows wax to be burnt very efficiently and allows for temperatures and heat output at par with or better than alcohol. Because it requires this new technology for the wax to burn, " NEW TECHNOLOGY? Hmmm how is #6 fuel oil burned?

Denise,
#6 fuel oil is simply preheated to burn. While the process used to burn the wax does involve preheating, it is much more complex. Once lit it powers itself and requires no additional equipment. I understand your skepticism but I assure you, I am about to graduate with a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering and am very familiar with the thermodynamics of the system.

 

[Ross]

Ryan, I have a couple of questions concerning the operation of this system.
!. How long does it take to have the burner producing full capacity heat?
2. How long does it take to cool?
and one more if I may, when I turn off a gas flame it is instantly off. What is the responce time for turning the control to an off position and the time that the flame is extinguished?

 

[RyanHelfrich17]

Ryan, I have a couple of questions concerning the operation of this system.
!. How long does it take to have the burner producing full capacity heat?
2. How long does it take to cool?
and one more if I may, when I turn off a gas flame it is instantly off. What is the responce time for turning the control to an off position and the time that the flame is extinguished?

Ross,
As far as the time to have the burner producing full capacity heat, that is something that we are actively working on reducing. With the camping stove prototype it can take up to a minute but we realize on a boat that wait time probably isn't acceptable. By adding an battery powered electric pre-heater to the design we hope to greatly reduce this.
As far as turning the flame off and cooling, the flame will go out immediately once the air supply is shut off to it. It is similar to how an alcohol stove works in that sense. Cooling depends on the surrounding temperature, but the longest process is for the wax in the reservoir to cool and re-solidify. When the reservoir is closed though the wax can't spill and even if it were to it's easy to clean up so we don't see this as a big issue.

 

[Ross]

I am the cook on my boat and at home and I like the responsiveness of gas stoves. You seem to indicate that shutting the stove down is a matter of snuffing the flame. With a gas stove I can go from full output to the smallest simmer flame with a 90 degree turn of a knob. Any cook will tell you that cooking custards and puddings demands excellant control of the heat. Frying meat or heating soup can be done with practically any source of heat. Coal and other solid fuel fired cook stoves permit the cook to move pans and pots around to the hotter or cooler places on the stove top.