New Owner - Purchasing a 310, survey says moisture and delamination in rudder

[NamedItAfterYou]

Hello all, I'm wondering what it would generally cost to replace or rebuild a rudder? I know we have crane cost to haul out, cradle and splash. What has been your experience if you've redone your rudder?

1998 Hunter 310

 

[dmax]

I replaced an O'Day 35 rudder about 8 years ago for about $2k - so somewhere in the neighborhood of $3k now. However, your rudder should be all stainless (the internal flag on pre-1990'ish rudders was often mild steel so often not worth repairing) - I would look into repairing. Drill some 1/4" holes in the bottom to let any water drain out and determine how much delamination there is. There are various ways to restore it, depending on the condition of the foam and the amount of delamination etc. You will also want to ensure moisture no longer gets in, usually the result of a crack in the fiberglass, a leak at the joint where the rudder post enters the fiberglass or through the top of the rudder post.

 

[shemandr]

A pretty complicated question.
Normally when there is a problem uncovered by a survey there is a negotiation between the buyer and the seller as to whether the price will be adjusted or the seller will do the repair/replacement.
There are wet rudders all over the sailing world. And repair could be delayed until a normal lay up. But I don't know where Baker's Island is and if there is a Winter lay up. But your best chance to get the seller to pay for it, is now. The surveyor could best advise you about the wisdom of delaying the repair. It's one thing if the foam is wet and another if the steel framework is corroded. No one knows which it is until the rudder is opened.
Repair can be a bit lengthy and would require lay up of weeks. On the other hand replacement could be a short haul - if you are lucky. That all figures in the price. Foss Foam is an often cited source of new rudders and may be able to give you a price. I assume Catalina Direct could too. Repair, unless DIY, involves a lot of man hours of skilled labor. I'm guessing the cost would be comparable to replacement but without shipping - which could be expensive.
To remove a rudder it can be done while in the slings but if the boat is blocked someone may have to dig a hole to be able to drop it. Expect to hear "Might as well's" for the cutlass bearing and other drive train issues.
The 3k price sounds low to me. But if that were it I think I would go replacement.

 

[dmax]

Don't have the seller do it unless it's a replacement - they won't be motivated to have it done right (don't ask how I know this). Give Foss Foam a call and get the latest price - their prices have always been very reasonable.

 

[jssailem]

Check with Foss Foam under their Hunter Marine page.

Standard Rudders – New Rudders

 

[Stu Jackson]

The trick with a replacement is to get the hole in the top of the rudder stock to line up with your tiller. Emergency tiller if wheel steered.
Plan Ahead

...replacement could be a short haul - if you are lucky.

 

[NamedItAfterYou]

Thanks to everyone for the quick and detailed answers!!

I'm considering offering the owner to split the cost of $3k which seems to be the likeliest range of cost.
The boat has been in freshwater all its life, corrosion of the steel in the rudder could still be a concern however, and the "may as wells" could also be a concern. It has a cradle and will be hauled out on the hard for the winter (Minnesota) and may have enough room to remove the rudder without digging a trench.
Would anyone have a diagram of the 310 rudder? This would aid in seeing what the "may as wells" may be waiting for me.

 

[Jan_H]

David Walker at Foss Foam told me that they made Hunter rudders from 1978 to 1995, when Hunter took over making thier own rudders until 2002, after which Foss took back making them. My boat had the same water logged rudder issue identified in the survey, and I reduced my offer accordingly. The problem with drilling hole(s) in the bottom of the rudder to let the water out is that the foam is waterlogged and retains the water quite well and doesn't just drain out. It's also (or at least the foam in my rudder was) quite a light weight foam which exacerbates the water retention issue. Hunter also used fiberglass rudder posts/shafts while they were making their own rudders, although I don't know if all of their in-house made rudders had these. These are reportedly quite strong, but are simply glassed internally to the rudder skins, so no internal stringers. I ended up recoring my rudder with 16lb foam, but that was quite a time consuming job - not sure if I'd take that project on again, but it did save me ~$5k. And yes, new cutlass bearing, Volvo shaft seal, etc. "while the rudder was out anyway" added to the project.

 

[NamedItAfterYou]

Again, thanks for all the feedback. I’ve started taking it out for shakedowns cruises, it seems slow to respond to the helm when docking in the marina, is that something I’ll have to get used to? And speaking of helms, does anyone have the pattern for this? https://shop.hunterowners.com/cu/detail-pedestal.php

 

[jssailem]

it seems slow to respond to the helm when docking in the marina

Compared to what?
How do you define “slow to respond”?
You turn the wheel with no power on and it does not turn?
You apply power, turn the wheel to the stops and it just goes forward?
It is so squirrelly that you can not control the boat in a straight line when backing the boat?

Hard to know how to reply when there is too little information.