I like the ideal of a brand new honda,merc,evinrude etc. but dont like those price tags so my next is the tahatsu which ive heard many times over and much cheaper. So whats your thoughts on the tahatsu and also a recommended hp.
New outboard for venture224
- Thread starter sailnewbie
- Start date
I've bought three.
A 9.8 with an extra long shaft that is on the Mac now. Would of bought an 8 but they didn't have it in an extra long shaft. I also have a 5 HP Nissan, bought used and the same as the Tohatsu 5 HP. Used it along with an older Honda 8 but they were both pull start. We were stuck in a side canyon of Lake Powell for a few days after I fractured and screwed up my shoulder and Ruth couldn't pull start the Honda. Once home we bought the 9.8 for its electric start feature figuring we weren't going to be in a situation again where we couldn't start the outboard. The 9.8 has been a great motor and always starts right away. Love it.
The other Tohatsu is a 3.5 HP long shaft for the dinghy. I wanted the long shaft so that it could be used as a backup on the Mac if something happened to the 9.8.
I had already extended the height of the dinghy transom to deal with the long shaft on the Nissan 5 (I can change the transom height back and forth if needed). The 3.5 replaced the 5 HP on the dinghy mainly because the 5 HP was getting too heavy for me to easily move it from the Mac to the dinghy and back again out on the water.
I did make a pulley system that makes getting the 3.5 on and off fairly easily for one person.
I do have fixed feelings about the 3.5 though. Sometimes it is hard to figure when and how much choke to use and it has died a couple times on the water, but did start back up. I think it has mostly to do with the carb and the jets in it to meet EPA stuff. I do always burn straight gas in it and have never used gas with alcohol.
The 5 and the 9.8 are both great. I'll say the same about the 3.5 if I can getting the starting and dying issues figured out,
Sumner
======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
A 9.8 with an extra long shaft that is on the Mac now. Would of bought an 8 but they didn't have it in an extra long shaft. I also have a 5 HP Nissan, bought used and the same as the Tohatsu 5 HP. Used it along with an older Honda 8 but they were both pull start. We were stuck in a side canyon of Lake Powell for a few days after I fractured and screwed up my shoulder and Ruth couldn't pull start the Honda. Once home we bought the 9.8 for its electric start feature figuring we weren't going to be in a situation again where we couldn't start the outboard. The 9.8 has been a great motor and always starts right away. Love it.
The other Tohatsu is a 3.5 HP long shaft for the dinghy. I wanted the long shaft so that it could be used as a backup on the Mac if something happened to the 9.8.
I had already extended the height of the dinghy transom to deal with the long shaft on the Nissan 5 (I can change the transom height back and forth if needed). The 3.5 replaced the 5 HP on the dinghy mainly because the 5 HP was getting too heavy for me to easily move it from the Mac to the dinghy and back again out on the water.
I did make a pulley system that makes getting the 3.5 on and off fairly easily for one person.
I do have fixed feelings about the 3.5 though. Sometimes it is hard to figure when and how much choke to use and it has died a couple times on the water, but did start back up. I think it has mostly to do with the carb and the jets in it to meet EPA stuff. I do always burn straight gas in it and have never used gas with alcohol.
The 5 and the 9.8 are both great. I'll say the same about the 3.5 if I can getting the starting and dying issues figured out,
Sumner
======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
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Thanks sumner and glad to here it, i just found a brand new 2015 electric start 9.8 2 stroke, that the dealer hasnt sold, comes with the normal 3 or 5 year warranty for $980. I think no-matter what ill have to buy it at that price
Mine are all 4 stroke. I didn't think they had been making 2 strokes for some time. You will get better gas mileage if that is a concern with the 4 stroke. I get about 10 mpg running about 5 kn with a very heavy boat. 2 strokes aren't allowed on some lakes in some states. Make sure that won't be a problem,
Sumner
=====================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
Hhmmm on the 2 stroke, i havnt physically put my hands on it maybe im counting my chicken to early! If thats not possible would you buy a 6hp sailpro or the 8hp
For me it would depend on two things.
The sailpro is a good outboard and I'd have no problems with one if I was always sure that the person in the boat with me could pull start it also. For safety reasons, if I was hurt or went over the side.
If that isn't an issue then the sailpro would be nice if also the second thing was not an issue, which is where I was sailing and would be sailing. You are inland and if you plan on lake sailing and occasionally taking it possibly to the ocean then the the 6 HP would be more than enough.
If you thought you were going to be dealing with tidal currents in cuts on a more regular basis then I'd go with the 8HP since it has a bigger prop. I've only needed the thrust of the 9.8 a couple times in Florida, but when I did I was glad to have it. If you took the 6 HP where there are strong tidal currents you would have to be more careful about your timing going through cuts, going near slack tide, which might not be when you want to go through them. Also a good idea even with the larger OB.
Weight wise the sailpro would be nice if you are having to put the outboard on/off the boat to trailer and in storage,
Sumner
======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
Both those outboards will get the boat up to close to theoretical hull speed. Once in the region of theoretical hull speed, the larger outboard will only result in maybe 5% more speed than the smaller one. Hull speed is hull speed regardless if the body of water is stationary or moving (current).
If 5% speed difference makes a difference in safety because of current.. you are taking too much risk.
I also have a Nissan (Tohatsu).. been happy with it.
You can have issues with gas and I dont know if you saw this post by "Thinwater" but I think is great advice
If 5% speed difference makes a difference in safety because of current.. you are taking too much risk.
I also have a Nissan (Tohatsu).. been happy with it.
You can have issues with gas and I dont know if you saw this post by "Thinwater" but I think is great advice
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I agree with the "once in the region of theoretical hull speed", and both can achieve that. The difference in the two outboards is before you are there in some tidal current situations. In some of the narrow channels going between the ocean side and the bay side you can be in more or less slack current at one moment, 90 degrees to it at another and then dead against it in a matter of feet and seconds. The larger prop will react faster and allow you to better maintain steerage as this happens.
Kind of like a small pickup with a 4 cylinder and a larger one with a V-8 . Both can pull a heavy trailer down the highway at 70 mph but if they come up against a steep grade the V-8 will not loose the speed as much. If they have to stop on that grade the V-8 will accelerate away from the stop faster.
It is not so about boat speed, it is about the ability to quickly handle differences in the forces the current applies on the boat. They can feel like a moving walkway below the boat taking it where it is going. Being able to accelerate quickly against it in some cases gives you a safety factor. Not a fun feeling having the boat being pushed or pull right towards a channel marker, bridge support or another boat.
Just another aspect of sailing in Florida that I love. Hope a lot of you get to experience it at some point if you haven't already,
Sumner
==================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
That it is and one that can be constantly changing. Sorry for the poor analogy. It wasn't meant to be an accurate example but to point out that there can be times the larger OB can be of benefit, even if the 6 hp and the 8 or 9.8 HP can take the boat to hull speed,
Sumner
====================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
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I understood summer's thought process perfect, 6 hp on a calm lake vrs a 6 hp on a 6mph current, big difference!
Sumner feel free to throw all your thought processes at me, i get them.
Sumner feel free to throw all your thought processes at me, i get them.
Say we have two displacement boats similar to what the OP has, One has a 6 hp and another with an 8 hp. These boats can easilly travel at the same speed if its under the theoretical hull speed (THS). Both boats have enough HP to get up to theoretical hull speed and the one with the 8 hp will push the speed farther into THS but this will only result in about 5% more boat speed. For this example, we will round off that 5% and say both boats have the same peak speed of 6 knts.
These two boats first travel in no current. The have the exact same speed of 6 knts.
Now these boats come into 2 knts of head current. Both boats still have the same exact speed over ground of 4 knts.
Current goes up to 4 knts. Both boats still have the same exact speed over ground of 2 knts.
Current goes up to 8 knts. Both boats still have the same exact speed over ground and are going backwards at 2 knts.
Now if we consider that 5% speed difference, all the above still is true, the boat with the higher HP has the same 5% speed advantage regardless of the speed of the current. Ie, no matter what the current is, the two boats speed over ground will always be very similar. If that 5% matters.. you have put yourself in a bad situation and should have waited for the current to change.
The analogy that Sumner used would predict that the boat with the lower HP would to start slow down with respect to the other boat with higher HP as the current increased.. Which is not at all correct.. Its a misleading analogy.
FYI, I also think Sumner has good advice on outboards. I have the same outboard as Sumner (9.8 Nissan/Tohatsu four stroke with electric start) and really like it. Its a little more HP than I need.. but did I mention that I still really like that motor as I both sail and some times use the boat as a trawler,,. I also leave it on the boat all the time even when trailering so the weight doesn't matter as much
Also mentioned was some difference in acceleration between the two outboards and that is true but that importance is lost on me and I have motored in currents both in the San Juan Islands and on the Colorado river. Being able to vector the outboard thrust - way more important in my opinion than the little extra hp.
Just in case.. a link to what THS is.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed
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I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make. Sorry, but It isn't what you just posted. I'll try again....
I'm saying you can find yourself in situations in narrow cuts in a place like Florida's 10,000 Islands/Everglades where you can need thrust as quickly as possible to avert a problem cause by current in a tight situation. Where you are not just motoring into the current, but into different degrees of it with obstacles you have to avoid. I'll still say the 8-10 HP with the larger prop, in my case a 4 blade prop, can respond much faster and possibly keep you out of trouble vs. the smaller OB and smaller prop. I can think of at least 4 cases that I've experienced where I was glad that I didn't have the 5 HP Nissan on the boat that I used once when I started. I'm basing my opinion on those situations. Situations maybe no one else will encounter.
There have been many other times where it was just a mater of motoring into a current and either size OB would of worked. The 6 would have been working a bit harder and the larger OB would of handled the same situation with less throttle. My experience has been that it seems to take more throttle to run 3 knots into a 3 knot current vs. running 6 knots with no current. Maybe it has just been my imagination but it sure doesn't seem like it at the time.
As you have posted, I see no problem for most people having the smaller OB and in sailnewbie's case it might be all he needs,
Sumner
===========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
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We have a 2005 6 HP Nissan 4 stroke on our Yankee Seahorse 24. The outboard starts and runs well. No problems so far. I think the Nissan and Tahatsu are the same.
Below is a link to our outboard running after it had been in storage under our house for four years. All we did was change the lower end fluid, the oil, and put fresh gasoline in the fuel tank. It started on the third pull. My son took it out for a test run. It pushes the boat quite well even at low throttle and runs smoothly.
https://sailboatprojectorbust.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/testing-the-outboard-motor/
The PO purchased the outboard New in 2005. He had no problems with it.
Below is a link to our outboard running after it had been in storage under our house for four years. All we did was change the lower end fluid, the oil, and put fresh gasoline in the fuel tank. It started on the third pull. My son took it out for a test run. It pushes the boat quite well even at low throttle and runs smoothly.
https://sailboatprojectorbust.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/testing-the-outboard-motor/
The PO purchased the outboard New in 2005. He had no problems with it.
Nissan, Tohatsu and Mercury SMALL OUTBOARDS up to 20 or 25HP are manufactured by Marubeni. There are many stories about Marubeni being owned by Merc, Nissan, etc. I have no idea if true. But take the cover off and they are all identical. The last story I read indicated that Nissan had purchased Marubeni. Marubeni is an oem mfgr. in that it makes all these small outboards after an agreement many years ago. They are made with the brands listed for the listed mfgr. It was cheaper to have them all built at one location by one Manufacturer so they created Marubeni. Tohatsu is a very good brand and makes outboard motors up to about 200hp. It has a great reputation overseas.
I own a Nissan which I service with the Tohatsu owners manual available online.
They will run forever as long as you do not store them with gasoline in the tank, the carb or the fuel lines for more than 30 days. I have stored mine for 14 mos, after draining all fuel everywhere. After the 14 mos I pulled it out of garage, filled gas tank with fresh gasoline, Filled the outboard mounted fuel separator, pumped fuel into engine, hit start button and it always starts promptly. The motor is 14 yrs old.
I own a Nissan which I service with the Tohatsu owners manual available online.
They will run forever as long as you do not store them with gasoline in the tank, the carb or the fuel lines for more than 30 days. I have stored mine for 14 mos, after draining all fuel everywhere. After the 14 mos I pulled it out of garage, filled gas tank with fresh gasoline, Filled the outboard mounted fuel separator, pumped fuel into engine, hit start button and it always starts promptly. The motor is 14 yrs old.
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Regarding what I said about current - hull speed is hull speed regardless if the body of water is moving or not..
If I remember and assuming I am not making this journey on a windy day (wind would screw up the results).... I am going to try a fairly simple experiment that I think will show what I said above. In about two weeks I am going to take my 26S from Willow Beach on the Colorado river just below Hoover dam to Cottonwood Cove on Lake Mohave. The first part of this is on the Colorado river through the Black Canyon and I think the current is in the 2 knt range.
I am going to mark a 1/2 throttle setting on the outboard throttle handle so that I can duplicate the setting. The 1/2 throttle setting should produce considerably less HP that the full throttle setting but both 1/2 and full result in my 26S being pushed up into the theoretical hull speed limit. I dont know the actual HP delivered but its in the ball park of the 6 and 8 hp we were discussing. I am guessing that the difference between 1/2 and full throttle settings will be less than 1 knt.
First measurement will be going down river in the current and I will measure my speed at 1/2 throttle and then at full throttle.
I will turn around and be going up river - against the current and I will measure my speed at 1/2 throttle (marked on the handle) and then again at full throttle.
Later in that same day I will be out of the river section and on the lake section so the current should be negligible. I will repeat the same test.
If hull speed is hull speed regardless if the body of water is moving or not, I should see the same delta speed between 1/2 and full throttle settings. I should see this same delta if I am going down current, up current or in no current. Ie, if you have some hp that gets you up to THS, you wont go much faster by adding HP regardless of the current. Or if you have a prop that gets up up to THS, you will only gain an insignificant amount in current by going to a prop that delivers slightly more HP.
Hopefully I get a no wind time window when Im in the current to get these numbers.. Bonus.. I should also be able to measure the actual water current speed doing this by looking at my boat speed going against the current vs going with the current.
If I remember and assuming I am not making this journey on a windy day (wind would screw up the results).... I am going to try a fairly simple experiment that I think will show what I said above. In about two weeks I am going to take my 26S from Willow Beach on the Colorado river just below Hoover dam to Cottonwood Cove on Lake Mohave. The first part of this is on the Colorado river through the Black Canyon and I think the current is in the 2 knt range.
I am going to mark a 1/2 throttle setting on the outboard throttle handle so that I can duplicate the setting. The 1/2 throttle setting should produce considerably less HP that the full throttle setting but both 1/2 and full result in my 26S being pushed up into the theoretical hull speed limit. I dont know the actual HP delivered but its in the ball park of the 6 and 8 hp we were discussing. I am guessing that the difference between 1/2 and full throttle settings will be less than 1 knt.
First measurement will be going down river in the current and I will measure my speed at 1/2 throttle and then at full throttle.
I will turn around and be going up river - against the current and I will measure my speed at 1/2 throttle (marked on the handle) and then again at full throttle.
Later in that same day I will be out of the river section and on the lake section so the current should be negligible. I will repeat the same test.
If hull speed is hull speed regardless if the body of water is moving or not, I should see the same delta speed between 1/2 and full throttle settings. I should see this same delta if I am going down current, up current or in no current. Ie, if you have some hp that gets you up to THS, you wont go much faster by adding HP regardless of the current. Or if you have a prop that gets up up to THS, you will only gain an insignificant amount in current by going to a prop that delivers slightly more HP.
Hopefully I get a no wind time window when Im in the current to get these numbers.. Bonus.. I should also be able to measure the actual water current speed doing this by looking at my boat speed going against the current vs going with the current.
the cheapest motor you can buy, length limits max speed. 3 hp can push into a 35 mph head wind before stall for your boat, there after just use the jib with outboard and tack. used cheap ok, smallest motor = more economy purchase and fuel
Depending on where you sail, you could go with a high output trolling motor. I get about 4.5 knots with a 86 lbs thrust unit. It uses two 12 volt batteries in series. I sail on a 20K acres lake, and it works great for that venue. Much easier to handle. It always starts. Low end "torque" is better than my old 4HP outboard. I have powered into 40 knot of wind. At that point it was a bit marginal. When it got above that, I lost forward speed. But in every other circumstance, it is tons better than gas. Tons better control for docking. Its also dead quiet. Nice for ghosting along on days with no wind.
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