New member in UK - Challenger owner (almost!)

[Mohawk]

Hi all

David encouraged me to introduce myself so I'll do my best! I retired at end of August this year (2013) at the age of 65 years young. I've been in electronics and communications most of my working life including time in the British Merchant Navy (5 years) and the edge of the Antarctic (S Georgia Island) with the British Antarctic Survey so I've had an incredible time and very lucky too!
I've been looking for my first yacht for some time now and suddenly came across an Alden 38 '6" Challenger Yawl built in 1960 by Halmatic of Portsmouth (UK) and by A Le Compte of Jutphaas, Holland (Netherlands). She has such beautiful lines that I couldn't resist making an offer! She's been fully surveyed and a few issues found but nothing too serious and easily put right - TG! This helped to reduce the purchase price and the work will be done this winter storage season in Gweek, Cornwall. My 'home' base seawise is Portsmouth (about 1-1/2 hrs from my home in Reading, Berkshire (Thames Valley - approx 45 miles W of London centre)). I'm a member of Portchester Sailing Club based at the N end of the harbour next door to a 2000 yo large Roman Fortress (Portchester). (our clubhouse is a little more recent!) My latest offer has been accepted and I expect to take possession towards the end of this month - which is great news!

FYI - She was originally named PRION and owned by a large furniture manufacturer's owner - E.D. Gomme of London. In about 2005 she was renamed by the present owner 'MOHAWK'.
Her Halmatic build details in case anyone is interested:
'Deborine' Hull Laminated Glass No. 1049 Constructed under Lloyds supervision by Halmatic Ltd, Portsmouth, England. (early days of GRP when early Nicholson 32/35's were being built by Halmatic too) [NB Deborine - named after owner's wife Deborah de Laszlo]
Her Le Compte details:
A. Le Compte Company, Inc New Rochelle, New York USA [and] Jutphaas Holland
Hull 33 1960

Am happy to answer any queries about her. I'm especially interested in any Challenger owners in the European area too. If anyone else has the same builders I am very interested in keel bolt and chain plate details that they may be aware of. Hope this not too long or I'll be told off by Mr Reno for taking up unnecessary server disk space! Look forward to discussions with you all in the near future. I feel I'm a member of quite a special 'club' to have a vessel designed by the great John Gale Alden! Greetings to you all!

 

[TomY]

Great news, and welcome! I'm not sure if this listing is your Challenger?

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/d97713/d97713.htm

Please keep us posted as to what repairs-etc, you'll be doing over the winter. Many of us have done most of them and I'm glad to share any experiences I've had in use and repairs over 14 years of great sailing with an Alden Challenger.

Tom Young

 

[CaravelaofExe]

Hello 949U. You were looking good in Fowey when I last saw you in 2011. Thanks for the hull number info which I've added to the listing here. I wonder what it felt like to have a GRP laminate named after one? Deborah's husband, Halmatic founder Patrick David de László had an interesting life... well, anyone that reputedly began a boatbuilding business after a chance encounter with Uffa Fox was bound to. It's possible to find out a little about him/ them here by scrolling down near the bottom of the page, and at his father, society portrait painter Philip de László's wiki page, here.

Whilst there is a link with the early model Nicholson 32s (eg they share the same rudder as the Halmatic moulded Alden Caravelles), it is not correct to link these early Alden GRP yachts with the Nicholson 35, which came along ten years later than the Alden Challengers. The only common ground I've been able to make between my Alden Caravelle and the Nic 35 is the Lewmar hardware (they made stanchions and other deck hardware before they became more famous for winches).

And whilst being a little bit argumentative, I note provenance facts in the yachtsnet link mentioned by Tom Young that don't tally with what I understood. According to the book John Alden and his Yacht Designs, JGA had retired in the early 1950's. Nils Helleberg is fairly certain that the Challenger, Zephyr, Mistral and Caravelle (definitely drawn by Swaine) types were drawn/ supervised by Clifford Swaine, who worked with Alden from the 1920s through 1970s. Googling Clifford Swaine, Alden leads to many more interesting references to him than it did a few years ago, including the fact that he drew the lines for this magnificent schooner, Alden design no 347 of 1927, which is finally under construction in Holland.

On more practical matters, as Tom says, there's a lot of experience here. It's well worth delving into the forum for info on most issues, none of which have proven to be terminal for these very fine boats.

 

[Mohawk]

Hi Tom & Iain

Many thanks your kind words. Yes - she is the one advertised at the Yachtsnet site! Iain, a slip of the fingers added Nicholson 35's to my notes - they were designed in 1971 I believe so I'm incorrect there! Thanks for pointing this out. The survey of 'Mohawk' (orig. 'Prion') showed some issues - the main one being a 'soft' and damaged cockpit sub-deck and bearers esp. to the rear by helmsman's seat. I'm having the whole area replaced including the cockpit locker lids (although OK I feel I should replace at same time - cosmetic?) with teak thwarts and sole and the marine ply supports (sub-deck, not bearers) fully expoxied for better protection than the original build. I'm advised this is a good idea. Comments?
I bargained with current owner to have £4,000 ($6,000) of the total £4,500 ($6,750) repair cost (mostly labour of course but at a fair rate - Cornwall is cheaper than Portsmouth!) subtracted from my accepted initial offer of £37,500 ($56,250 approx) which certainly helps! The GRP/fiberglass deck has had the original teak decking removed (not sure when) which helps maintenance costs but I was considering re-installation [cost?? :-( ] or, sin of sins, considering the latest artificial teak (Flexiteek) which should look good ('weathered' version), antislip and long lasting. Comments? Thoughts?
Iain - re the actual designer - I really don't know but it does seem odd as I've read somewhere that she was a 1958 design yet, as you say, he retired in 1956! I must look up this Clifford Swaine - fascinating stuff. In fact, the history of this vessel and of John Gale Alden is keeping me engaged almost as much as the beautiful yawl herself! Hope she's not listening?

PS Can I ask some repair/info queries here or is it better to use the non-general chat sections? e.g. I would love to find the dimensions, construction details for the Counter Deck Box which appears on many Challengers. Mine does not have this feature which strikes me as most useful as well as added protection for the helmsman from astern/quarter weather!
Thanks again for such a friendly forum - will exchange more info as time goes on. If anyone has any general tips re likely issues with this noble lady (53 yo) that might arise they would be most welcome. Happy sailing! Jon (contact jonb333(AT?)hotmail(dot)com) /& this forum)

 

[TomY]

Great news! I thought this looked like a good one from the listing. I'm sure any of us here will be more than happy to help in any way we can. And it will go both ways, as I'm looking at building an entirely new cockpit in the next couple years. Mine is giving up the ghost.

I would suggest you start threads with a specific repair area or topic of interest. It makes it easier in the future to search the website with, for instance, "cockpit repair/rebuilding" or something that has the main focus key words in the subject title. Some of these may have already been started and you may find them in a search yourself. In that case, it's wise to just continue the subject.

But don't worry this, any input from a new Challenger owner will be very welcome and of high interest to us. We're a small group and enjoy following these boats where ever they are.

I'm constantly writing and posting photos of our boat on USHarbors.com http://ma.usharbors.com/image-gallery/s ... gulf-maine

The more we get the word out about this unique Alden design that is truly a bright flash of time between wood and fiberglass boat building, the more likely these boats will survive well into the future.

 

[Mohawk]

Thanks again Tom! Looked at your USHarbors link - great story and I think it makes you feel even more alive - after surviving (thankfully) such an experience!
Your guidance noted re forum!
Any ideas re my teak deck query before I post for real under the 'right' topic? I see your own deck is not teak covered - was she always just GRP?
Happy sailing
All the best - Jon
(bill of sale and docs for 'Mohawk' should all be settled this coming Friday, 22nd when I will become the new and very happy owner of a Classic John Gale Alden Challenger Yawl.) I'm so lucky to have found her as there are very few in the UK, or Europe even? Does anyone know the names of other Challengers in Europe I wonder?