New Lexan for Hatches

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D

Dave

My Bowmar hatch in the v-berth is extremely crazed. Does anyone have a recipe for replacing the Lexan? I found a source I can send the hatch cover to in Connecticut but wondered if this is a do it yourself project? I don't want to replace the whole hatch if I can help it. Thanks, Dave
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Jeff, what model is it? The cheaper model hatches

are best replaced. Most '80s Hunters have Bomars' cast 100 series. (Like my 34) Those are Bomars' most expensive off shore hatch. I was stunned to find that out. I rebuilt all of mine for half the cost of replacement. If you've got these, I'll give you some ideas.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
I think that the plastic is about $80.

Dave: I think that Bomar charges about $80 for the plastic. You can probably get the same material for less than 1/2 of that price at a local plastic shop. Ask Bomar what the material is and go from there. To replace them you can cut a small hole in the edge of the hatch (thru the sealant). Then fish a piece of 90 test fishing line thru the hole. Tie a couple of piece of wood on each end of the line and it should cut the sealant and the plastic should pop right out of the frame. You can also check with Bomar and see what sealant they recommend.
 
D

Dave

Cast Bowmar Hatch; Oday 35

some good thoughts, thanks for the replies. The Bowmar hatch is a heavy duty unit of cast construction for the frame and smoke colored plastic for the glass. The fishing line idea sounds like it is worth a try, now if I only had some time!! :>) thanks, dave
 
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Bob Howie

Tempered glass

I had the same problem six years ago on my 78h30 and replaced the plexiglass with 1/4" tempered and tinted safety plate glass. It is used routinely on higher-end hatches and I had experience with it on a 60' Nautical. The weight also helps keep the hatch water tight. It's a simply replacement job and both pieces of glass for 2 hatches was less than $85. Be sure, tho, that you get ONLY tempered safety glass.
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Hey Bob,,,,BS!

Having done this work, yeah, rebuilt my Bomar 100 series cast hatches, BS is instantly recognizable. Let me just say the LEXAN Bomar uses is 3/16 thick. Safety glass, is the same stuff as on the side and rear windows of your car, or your sliding glass door of your patio. Yep, the tempered stuff. Shatters into a million pieces when so much as scratched. Can't ever be successfully used in this application. Tempered safety glass can't even be cut after it's tempered. Not exactly 'end user' stuff.
 
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Bob Howie

Hey, Fred...BS is right

Say, Fred, before you run off at the mouth about something you obviously don't know much about, maybe you should check your facts. If you think it's such BS that I did what I said I did, then send me your e-mail address and I will send you pictures as well as an affidavit from Able Glass here in Conroe, Texas, which cut the glass for me. You might also check with some of the marine manufacturers first, too, to find out that, yes, indeed, they use tempered safety plate in their hatches...just like I did before I did what I did. Before you jump to conclusions in the future Fred and essentially accuse someone of lying, maybe you should do a little research before opening your pie hole. But, then, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
 
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Ed

Actually, tempered glass can be cut.

I've done it a few times. It requires the use of a diamond studded wet-saw, but it can be cut. However, I agree with you that tempered safety glass would be unsuitable for hatches and portlights, fixed or otherwise. The first wave or object to hit it could easily cause it to shatter. I'm sure folks have used it on boats, but I would not if there was a chance a wave could hit it broadside. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
 
B

Bob Howie

And, another thing, Fred

And, before you open your yap again to reply to my latest email, first, off, your math sucks, too. 3/16" is 1/16th of an inch THINNER than 1/4". As to your comment that tempered safety plate shatters if so much as scratched, then, of course, I guess you can explain why the windshield in your car doesn't just shatter into your millions of pieces when it gets hit by a rock or other small piece of road debris instead of just taking a bit of chip that most glass dealers can successfully fix for a few bucks, huh? To be fair, I've read a few of your other pieces posted here and I might suggest that you leave the "cocktail hour" alone when you are castigating folks you don't know about topics you obviously haven't explored or given serious thought. The glass replacements in my hatches has, for me, worked quite successfully both for me and a few others who liked my installation so much that they gave it a try. There has never been a problem or, as you pointed out so eloquently not "so much as a scratch" on the hatches in 6 years.
 
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Bob Howie

Ed, what you surmise has happened...

Ah, Ed, now comes the voice of reason... Ed, this has happened and it's one of the reason a lot of the sportfish people now build solid fronts to their cabins and you are right. But, in 16 years of sailing a Nautical 60 from Houston, Texas, to Mexico to all sorts of ports along the Texas Gulf Coast, 6 crossings of the Gulf of Mexico to the Bahamas, down the Thorny Path to the Caribbean and all the way to Grenada and back, and in all kinds of weather, the hatches have taken on a few infamous Green Waves without any problem. Winch handles and other tools have been dropped on them and promptly proceeded to bounch right off, sometimes, unfortunately, overboard. There certainly is NO guarantee that my choice of modification is bulletproof and I have never suggested it was. But, then again, Lexan, which admittedly is extremely rugged material, will probably collapse under the weight of a ton of water dropped on it from a few feet up. I really don't think anything can withstand that kind of assault and I know of at least one megayacht that succumbed to that kind of sea in the Med. The Fantome, too, was lost during Hurricante Mitch, which is just to say that Mother Nature can pretty much overcome whatever she chooses. I did not pursue my modification for anyone's eddification other than my own and I chose it strictly as a possible alternative to Lexan, both for the clarity as well as a permanent solution to yellowing and crazing. The hatches I have on the 78h30 are not clear span hatches; they have cross members which support whatever material is placed in them, so the rigidity factor of whatever is placed in them is enhanced. But, on the Nautical 60 the glass is, in fact, clear span and about 28 inches square. There has never been, in the 16 years I've been sailing that vessel, a problem with the hatches and that's why I opted to do what I did. I certainly don't expect anyone to do anything I do on my boat. I was just offering up something that I chose to do that has worked well for me for 6 years and has given me no reason to change it. If I thought there was a true safety issue, I would change it in a minute. What I truly don't expect on this forum -- and I have been in and out of here for several years -- is for someone to accuse me of BS and lying like Fred seems prone to do. Anytime anyone does that to me, I have absolutely zero problem firing a broadside right back. Attack the point, fine. No problem. Attack me for even suggesting something, now that's a problem. Thanks very much for your obviously more reasoned position.
 
Dec 6, 2003
57
Hunter 27_89-94 Kalona, Iowa
Thank You Bob

I believe you just did what quite a few people on this forum wished that they had done (according to live chat I have been in). Fred can get a little carried away. That said, Fred often has excellent points to make. I just wish he would stick to them and leave the sarcasm and attempted humor to the professionals.
 
B

Brent

Lexan hatch

I don't know how the setup is on your hunter, but the previous owner to my boat put on a lexan hatch and just bordered it with teak. Said it was pretty simple and it is quite strong, I can jump up and down on it without problems! I attached a picture and I can provide more detail if interested...
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Freds Back

Bob, I'll lighten up. Phil doesn't like it when I go off, but you did NOT use tempered glass. You used safety PLATE glass. Your example of a scratch on a windshield is not applicable. Windshields are safety PLATE glass. NOT tempered. If they were tempered, they would shatter when anything touched them such as a pebble bouncing off the road. Safety plate glass can stop bullets. And my math is right. 3/16" is what Bomar uses and is also what I have. The lexan comes flush with the frames at this thickness. And those frames are also cross braced underneath. The forward one, twice. Remember, Lexan (polycarbonate) was invented for Moon suit face shields. The Moon program was the mother of invention for a lot of our boat stuff. And I'm sorry I 'launched' so hard on you Bob. It was late, (no, not cocktails, notice no typo's in that post) But having worked with tempered glass, your use of the term came across as if you were making it up. Sorry again. *sry
 
B

Bob Howie

Bob Forgives Fred

Hey, that's cool. I'm not one to hold grudges. I never have a problem with folks disagreeing with whatever point I'm making; that's called "debate" and I think that is what makes forums valuable. I grew up on a coast, lived with a few blocks of a boat yard as a kid, owned and worked on boats -- the family's and mine -- for years and I've always gone a bit outside the box on stuff in hopes of maybe finding better ways to do things, escaping, as it were, the dogma of "we've always done it that way." Can you imagine the guy who FIRST tried a raw oyster? That's what I call going outside the box!! As a longtime ocean traveler and as a professional pilot, I am as loathe as the next guy, perhaps a bit more so, of doing anything that sacrifices safety for the sake of expediency. That being said, I don't have a problem, either, doing things that increase the safety margin either. I've done a bunch of things to my current boat that, in my opinion only, has improved her quite a bit and I offer those suggestions strictly from the standpointo of "hey, this is what I did." Anyone and everyone is more than welcome to accept it or reject it anytime. As I recall, when I placed the order for the glass -- and I've worked with my glass company on any number of similiar type projects -- I distinctly remember ordering (and have the invoice and order form in my handwriting and in my file) "1/4" tempered, tinted safety plate," ergo perhaps the confusion on what I have in my hatches. I do know this, it's worked...at least for me and a few others. ABI, by the way, lists portlights in their catalog as having "laminated safety plate" and I've seen their ports and it is glass. Ok, so much for this discusssion. I'm done with it and Fred, your apology is gratefully accepted. Bob
 
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Gerry Cooper

Dave, I replaced my for'd Lewmar 24x24

hatch perspex last year. A local plastic supplier provided Lexan cut and routed to match the original and I bought the Lexan sealer from Bomar. I suppose the trickiest part was positioning the Lexan exactly in the middle of the frame while the sealer was setting. I used wooden kebab sticks to get the right spacing. I replaced the rubber seal at the same time and must admit it does look good. Total cost for the 24x24 installed around $170
 
R

Ron

What kind of Lexan?

I'm having trouble finding tinted, abrasion resistant lexan. What did you use? GE offered me a skid of it at $600 per sheet and recommended acrylic instead. Help! Ron
 
A

Art Femenella

Thoughts from a glass man

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I am a stained glass restorer with 33 yrs exp, some of it with plate glass glazing. Tempered glass is very resistent to impact damage. It is approximately 10x stronger than annealed glass (typical window glass). The "boards" or glass partitions at a professional hockey rink are made from 1/4" tempered glass. Hockey pucks routinely strike the glass at 100mph. The weakest point of a tempered piece of glass is the edge. The problem with tempered glass is that if it does break, it breaks into hundreds, if not thousands, of small squares. This result can often be mitigated by laminating the tempered glass to a piece of annealed glass. I have never heard of anyone successfully cutting tempered (heat process) glass. Possibly you are referring to chemically strengthened glass? If you are truly cutting tempered glass please contact me off line about the process. The reason why this is doubtful is the physics involved. It is my understanding that the reason tempered glass is so reisitent to breaking is that it is subject to rapid heating and cooling in a glass kiln. This results in a super hardened, but very thin, layer of glass on the exterior of the piece. This glass has a very high surface tension. The layer is very resistent to breakage, but if it is pierced, regardless of how it is pierced, the great differential in the surface tension and the internal stress is instantly releived, resulting in an explosion of small pieces of glass. 1/4" tempered glass in the small sizes used on a sailboat should be able to resist great loads. However, it would be prudent to run the numbers with someone capable of computing said loads and what thickness tempered glass should be used. An advantage of tempered glass is that it is much more resistent to scrathing than polycarbonate. Other advantages are its low coefficient of expansion and compatibility with many caulks. This facilitates a better seal between the frame and the glazing. Polycarbonates (lexan) are very strong and very resistent to breakage. They are much more subject to scratching and UV degradation. Newer polycarbonates are more "scratch-resistent" but they all will scratch. They have a very high coefficient of expansion (guidelines should be allowance for 1/8" expansion per linear foot of plastic). This fact means that polycarbonate should only be used in frames specifically designed for its use. Typically, silicone is the caulk specified for sealing polycarbonate, especially if it is set into an aluminum frame. Regardless, the caulk or sealant used must be able to allow for high rates of expansion. Under great loads, the polycarbonate may not break, but it may deform and deflect to the point that it dislodges from the frame altogether. Acrylics (plexiglas) are harder than polycarbonates, but not as strong. They are more resistent to scratching,(not as much as glass) but will break under a great enough load. Bottom line, one must understand the strengths and weaknesses of the different types of glazing available to a sailboat. This must be matched against the type of sailing to be done: inland waterways; coastal cruising or blue water sailing. Windows and ports are simply holes in boats we fill with something that is less strong than the hull. I have extensive experience with all of the types of glazing discussed here. Before I would change any glazing system on my boat, I would seek the counsel of someone with more experience than myself,(probably the technical support section of the manufacturer of the glazing or the port/window). The definitive answer to this question is beyond, in my opinion, the opinions and resources expressed on this forum, inclduing my own.
 
A

Art Femenella

DYI Dave

If the point is to replace the existing, it shouldn't be too difficult. The polycarbonate can be optained from a local sign maker or glazier. If you want to hunt, you may find a plastics wholesaler in your area where you can buy a cut off. Cadilac Plastics is a national wholesaler with regional offices. Do not purchase the new plastic until after you remove the original to verify thickness and edge detail. Carefully remove the crazed original and use it as a template. Do not remove the protective film from the polycarbonate until after it is cut. You need to figure out what sealant was used to bed the original. If the port didn't leak, make a note of the glazing detail (sealant on both sides of the plastic; support blocks; backer rod; etc.) You want to copy this closely during the refir so that it doesn't leak. If silicone was used, it is virtually impossible to remove the residue sufficiently to gaurantee a good seal with the new plastic, unless silicone is used on the replcament piece. It is very difficult to remove sealant from the plastic. A trick to keeping the plastic clean is to trim back the protective paper or plastic film to the point where you want the sealant to stop, or in line with the inner edge of the applied trim. After sealant and tool as neccesary. When sealant is cured, remove paper or film.
 
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Ed

I was told the 1/4" glass was tempered.

It was made for shelving, but it was too long for what I needed, so I cut it on a wet-saw with a diamond blade and had no problems. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
 
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